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Edited by Azlan-viii: 2/4/2022 3:17:39 AM
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140 hand cannons palindrome, fate bringer, ace, eyasluna, still need toning down.

Reduced aim assist isn't enough when they have the stupid range they do. Considering you aren't going to creat larger maps on mass then nerfing their range is the only way to do it. If they don't have the range they do then we will be okay with the flinch they cause but if they keep the range they shouldn't keep the mad flinch. No way should they have it all. Wow look at all the hand Cannon crutches coming out to defend their op archetype. "No we need our op range" " they need bigger maps" what a joke.
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  • I think there are just so many viable 140’s that it saturates it. Lots of other archetypes can compete, but getting good rolls on a good gun in the class is way less reliable.

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    • Sound like another sad lorentz crutch to me.

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    • They nerfed the range a year and a half back. It made them VERY inconsistant at even close range. So no thanks. Stop crying. Handcannons were made to be used for mid range.

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    • any 540 pulse can beat them alone with numerous other weapon types they are fine where they are. If you can counter them thats on you. Also a hand cannon has to hit ever shot for optimal ttk as where others do not.

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    • I don't play pvp but my response to this is if they are so op, why don't you use one and fight back

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    • I am glad you posted this and all the sweats are going to respond and be pissed but you are right

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    • Edited by Dredgen Ignatius: 2/4/2022 3:20:12 AM
      They won't touch them, I already tried making the case for this and got downvoted into the shadow realm. Range ain't the issue its the perfect stability, reduced flinch, in air accuracy, hipfire accuracy, and unreasonably sized mag. I argued that if handcannons hit the way they do and have as much range then why is forerunner a special weapon. They said because its a sidearm ignoring the fact that it has the same dmg and ttk if you hit all 3 headshots as a handcannon less if you don't land all 3. Handcannons are just broke and need to be reigned in not destroyed or sunset just reigned in there is no tradeoff its the perfect gun.

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      • The range is fine, they just need reduced aa/hitbox.

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        • I really can’t believe they didn’t make the hitboxes significantly smaller… I know why they are so afraid to balance them… crutched by so many players

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          • There's nothing wrong with 140s. Lorentz, crimson and most fusion rifles are busted however.

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          • Complains about 140s while using crimson as his main weapon 😂😂😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ what are you trying to do man? Get all the other hand cannons you don’t use nerfed?

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            • I wouldn't mind if they reduced the range on them, I'd use scouts more.

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            • Edited by Dredgen Truth: 2/4/2022 1:12:29 PM
              [quote]Wow look at all the hand Cannon crutches coming out to defend their op archetype. "No we need our op range" " they need bigger maps" what a joke.[/quote] You see the funny thing about this, is that other than the weapons which are pretty much designed to be close range, Sidearms, smgs, and the like, most other weapon archetypes will, on average, outrange hand cannons. Of course youve got some crazy outliers like ace, but even then most scouts and pulses hit from farther ranges. It is, quite literally, a map problem. We had maps where those weapons had time to shine. Vostok, retribution, whatever those mars maps were called, idr off the top of my head. What do we have now? Widows court? Fortress? Debatedly twilight gap? All maps which, btw, people want removed from the game for exactly that reason. They hate it when big open lanes allow for the stuff they want to use to get outranged. That you think this issue with map design is a situation of people "defending their crutches" really speaks to how little you actually understand the issue, or the discourse around the map design in this game. Map issues have been a complaint for [i]years[/i]. Since forsaken weve had too many close ranged maps, designed around us playing at y1 speeds, leaving shotguns, hcs, and now after shotgun nerfs the close range archetypes like sidearms and smgs, way too much room to breathe. We had open maps in the game, but there werent nearly enough, and come beyond light way over half of them got removed. If your complaint is hc range, be very aware that your guns are more than likely capable of beating them out on that front on any map with enough range for you to actually play it.

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            • If they aren’t still competitive, no one would ever actually try getting these. For casual players like me, many of the best hand cannons were impossible to get, since I had to get a high power level, then grind GMs for Pali, and try again and again for Master Templar Fatebringer. That added up to countless hours of frustrating bounty grinding and GM runs. Isn’t that what Bungie wants anyways? That being said, I use plenty of weapons that outgun hand cannons, particularly my Summoner, which has high cal.

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              • All you anti hand cannon guys wont be happy until 20m becomes the max range of any hand cannon. I don’t even really use hand cannons but it’s obvious that every archtype is fine except they all have a little too much aa and too big of a hitbox, the range is perfect.

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              • the only nerf they need is Bullet MAgnetism , but this is for 99% of guns inside d2 especially on controller

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              • Okay then bring back the 150 light weights that had less base range…!!! Oh wait… you already complained about that and they got nerfed to 140s. It’s funny when the 150s were in the game no one even mentioned 140s being too strong at all. In fact everybody said they needed a buff… now look where we are. You guys will never stop crying! “Waaa this killed me, waaa that killed me” stop being a baby and get better at the game.

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                • Map design is the issue. Not enough room for high range scouts / pulses to out range the Handcannons.

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                  • Let me ask an honest question; What do you believe their range should be?

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                  • Go lick a frog 🐸

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                  • Your constant crying about things that kill you while using crimson - a cringe'ly easy spray cannon that's impossible to miss with and crutching main ingredient is straight up embarrassing. Please leave the forums and don't come back.

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                  • Lmfao

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                  • If you can't out maneuver a HC by now, it's entirely your own fault. No Time, V Wing, DMT, MIDA, Messenger, a few smgs, Le Monarch, etc.. all are being used right now. You'll have to get over it man. Learn.

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                    • Eh, I just think they should yeet rangefinder and rework how explosive/timed payload works on HCs. I just don’t like having to basically go “does it have RF or ex rounds? No, dismantle”, it’s like snapshot on snipers or QuickDraw on shotguns, practically mandatory if it can roll it, much much weaker if it doesn’t. It also has the added benefit of making other weapon archetypes a little more competitive since they don’t have to worry about. HC flinch and flinch in general also needs to be looked at, it either needs to be a real thing on all guns or none, no sense in why getting a hit in the face by a high cal auto doesn’t cause any noticeable flinch but a regular hand cannon can sometimes just straight toss your aim off target, it ain’t OP, but it’s a very large disparity that doesn’t make any sense.

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                    • They need their bullet bending angle cut in half.

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                      • No, I use 180s and I still kill 140 users

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