[i]I ran heroic Crota yesterday with a young lad. He explained how everytime he speaks up in other raids, he's immediately booted for his voice/age. We had a group of laid back Guardians and informed him that as long as he listened and communicated with us (about the encounters) that there wouldn't be any problem. After a couple wipes with progression each time, we finished the Deathsinger challenge and Crota challenge. His thankfulness towards us was extremely heart felt. I give the asshole Guardians one or two run of the mouths before I kick or leave. I raid to get loot, have a good time, and laugh. If you're not down with that, I'm not down with you. 👍[/i]

Here's something to think about before labeling the experienced as "assholes" • did they say they were looking for a quick run? • are they wanting other experienced players? Usually people request the above 2 when they have a limited time to play and want to complete the raid in this time. If you are not experienced enough to meet their request then don't join them. Join another group. By joining a group whose in need of a quick run before leaving and you're causing wipes etc. you're going to agitate them and they'll come off as a jerk because now they're out of time and frustrated. • were you causing wipes repeatedly and not listening to the experienced players suggestions / tips / advice? • were you too busy messing around instead of trying to focus and complete the raid? • were you talking over everyone who were making callouts? The above 3 happen all the time, and then when the team / experienced player gets tired of spending 2-3 hours dealing with it and leaves they get labeled "asshole". If you're less experienced than the other guy and you keep dying, messing up mechanics, etc. instead of using "oh but my teammate" as an excuse, just listen to the guys advice for a second it could prove beneficial. If you're messing around and just not caring about finishing the raid that makes YOU the asshole as you're wasting 5 other people's time because you'd rather laugh about how you can try and punch the captain to death, or 360 throw a siva charge, which then spirals into a wipe, thus meaning wasted time. Then this usually happens repeatedly and when the player is finally kicked they always say "you're an asshole I'm just trying to have fun!" Having fun is great and all but if that's how you want to have fun then get a group of friends who are the same way and their idea of fun is 4 hours per raid. Do not join someone else's team and waste all of their time that's just inconsiderate. Also if you have a lot of background noise, mute your mic so others can make clear callouts, if you're talking over everyone that's being rude/inconsiderate and you're making it 10x harder for everyone to communicate when needed. Nine time out of 10 the player who labels the experienced as "assholes" is usually doing one of the points above and complaining that the experienced person either left, kicked, or said something to them. This isn't always the case obviously but it's usually how it happens.

You can't be unskilled in this game.... their are no variables everything is a pattern. So you can be uninformed, in which case at least 1 out of the 5 guys in your raid group will inform you on exactly what to do. Also more importantly, the games been out for a couple years now, if you are brand spanking new you need to let ppl know. I've done every raid over 100 times, sherpa'd most of them, I'm not interested in teaching ppl everytime I raid anymore. Sometimes ppl like me want to chill, as in complete everything without any confusion or I'll informed questions, just shoot shit and get it done. Sooo, tread carefully when labeling a "skilled" player an asshole, most likely you are the asshole and don't even realize it.

One? Wow you don't raid much do you ?

When I use these forums for LFG, I put message me and still get friend requests.

Agreed. Not many kind players left tho. :(

Does it bug anyone else when you find a group on the forums, join up and 1 guy takes forever because destiny is loading up, then hes gotta go to the tower and get weapons. Why do ppl lool for a group before they get their gear. I always sign in get my weapons and then look on the forums. It amazes me how some ppl have no acknowledgment of other peoples time.

If the asshole is a highly competent raider and can get me through faster than the friendly people, then I'm siding with the former. I can chill with friendly people in many different places. That's no big deal. Spending hours on a raid segment that should take minutes, however, is not very fun. I guess I'm a jerk.

What I hate most is when the asshole keeps making the same mistake or isn't going to follow the strategy the rest of the group are doing. During our first 390 Crota run we had one guy who would not stop taking the sword to right side (We we're running left side). He also wouldn't stop bitching whenever we let someone else try running sword. Eventually we just had to kick him. I really don't care how much of an asshole you are. As long as you can follow the strategy then you can be a world class douche-bag if you want.

We all want it to be fun and relaxed...and rewarding. And therein lies the problem Being stuck at the same raid boss for 2 hours because one or two players cannot adapt is NOT FUN. It's horrendous. I'm strategic and vocal and helpful. I've received +200 Karma points on The 100 from randoms I've raided with. That is a lot of Karma BUT the socially awkward players who ruin raids by never communicating basic stuff like whether they got their knight I've lost tolerance for. They don't tell you they need Orbs at Crota, they don't ask for help with their Ogre and the whole thing fails over and over and over....even when you give them the easiest role So fun and friendly is great but continually failing is not fun

I prefer assholes, not sitting in a raid for 3 hours.

Well ofc you would. You hardly have any completions yourself. I've had this account for 6 months and I already have 3x your completions

I think people are missing the point. Yea, we all want to get the raid done and it's awesome when it's efficient. But why is being polite and considerate looked down on? In what team sport does social friction between teammates have a tactical benefit? So, I propose this question: if you're assembling a team and need a player... who do you pick? The experienced guardian that's there to help the team finish the encounter and potentially network and send a few friend requests afterwards because they were helpful? Or risk it with the other experienced asshole who wants to call your swordbearer a worthless blueberry pleb, and give him the motivation to miss a few swings on the next Sword run before going to Orbit?

My friend is a good player at Trials, but he rages *BAD*. He once punched a hole in his T.V. during Aksis. He got grounded for a month.