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Edited by Trill_0012:
5/29/2017 6:33:28 AM
38
Its not your fault
TL:DR: players are not devs, we cant go into the games coding too make balance better or worse. The state of Destiny is not your fault. Now the devs with degrees working at bungie on the other hand.....
I was on reddit and...[url=https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/6dlc8e/as_a_community_we_have_destroyed_this_game/]Just read[/url] (link lost....damn it) Now Idk about you guys but I dont know anything about developing a game nor do I have a degree with other game's I've worked on , on my résumé. I'm not at a company where the balancing was an issue for 2+years. I have no direct way of communicating to the devs a bungie nor do I think coz or deej even read my post. So how the -blam!- is it on me?
LSS, It's not your (or my) fault destiny is unbalanced. It's not our fault there has been issues since the beginning destiny, and Its not our job to make the game better (no matter what a fan said's). I hate a nerfer more than anyone, but do I feel like they literally went in and changed the coding to make the game what it is? Hell no. Next Its going to be our fault for bungies bad decision making.....No its not. My hands are clean.
Don't be that type of fan where you are blaming yourself for what the game is. All those able minded individuals at bungie with degrees for what they are doing, and its on us? Wow. No wonder bungie likes reddit.
[b]Edit:[/b] I enjoy the game, but I wont go as far as to blame myself for bungies mistakes, and I for damn sure wont thank them for fixing things that should get fixed, and braking what isn't broken. I will thank them for.... the attempt to make the game better, but let's be real. We know they are capable of more than what they've been doing.
[b]Edit:[/b] I get that there are streamers, nerfer, and Youtubers that complained a lot, but still how many years has bungie been in business? They should be capable of finding better selections with their eyes closed (unless there has been a huge staff change in which case..uh oh).
In Destiny 2 if you are going to ask for feedback and "listen", maybe have polls where you are asking players about balance and changes? How does this scout feel? Does it feel Op? How do you feel about the warlocks sword tracking? Compare the polls too your data. If it looks good, leave it, and if not ask people to comment in a linked post. We can ask, but only you have the power to actually do anything to make the game better. You've tried in some areas of destiny (thanks for that), but in other areas where It counts you completely missed the mark, air ball, no touchdown. That is why some players are skeptical about Destiny 2, and they ones who aren't....Idk what too call you anymore.
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Bungie do make great games, but they have one problem that hurts them. They listen to their community too much. People will always whine about certain weapons, but Bungie doesn't have to listen. Tell the devs to jump off a bridge, they will do it happily. Bungo, learn how to deal with peer pressure.
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2 RepliesHonestly the patches always took a sledgehammer when a scalpel was required. Or they just miss what was wrong in the first place and nerf all around it. Suros is dominant: ok let's piledrive all auto rifles into complete uselessness then leave them there for over a year. Thorn, TLW, and Hawkmoon are leagues better than any legendary handcannon and any other real primary: ok let's pile on a bunch of nerfs on each weapon then take all handcannons and reduce their range/ initial accuracy and increase their bloom so that you can't actually use them unless you get a perfect roll that boosts their range significantly. Bladedancer neutral game is too strong: nerf the super into the ground then destroy blink so it can't platform whatsoever. What's that it was quickdraw that was too strong? Nerf blink again this time making bladedancers the only ones who have to take 0 recovery in order to have max armor. What it was still quickdraw that makes them popular and everyone abandoned blink two nerfs ago? Nerf blink so that you can't see your radar because why not? I hunter main but I usually feel bad for sunsingers that got nerfed and their only reason was "because it was annoying" Oh god then there's shotguns. Ok so the strongest shotgun in the game initially was found verdict. It had a set roll and it had a pretty good range on it but nothing really gamebreaking. Then they decided to make felwinter's lie and add a new archetype of "high impact, high range, able to boost range further" shotguns. It proceeded to break the crucible because of course it would. The immediate answer is "let's not nerf this new archetype that has literally only positives and no downsides, let's add two more to the mix" Then we had matador 64 and party crasher and felwinter's breaking the crucible. Then, wait for it, they nerf all shotguns. Because high rof low range shotguns needed less range too. Dry Rot was just too strong... Then they actually nerf felwinter's specifically. Then they nerf the other two which only pushed for the same archetype but with other range perks. Then they scrapped it for year two, we all took a break and started only sniping hallways for ttk. ROI comes out and for some god awful reason they bring matador and party crasher back because that's what we needed. Dawn of Round 2 of shotgun only meta begins and then bungie decided to nuke all special ammo because they can't figure out that it was one freaking archetype that was wrong this whole time. Yeah the community complains a lot. But bungie needs to figure out how to make more frequent nudges rather than cleaver swings have a ton of collateral damage.
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5 RepliesLet's all be reminded truth got nerfed because people used it too much for bungies liking. The nerf nobody asked for.
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It is partly the fault of whining kids
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Bungie's mistake was listening to the crying. Its the idiots that cried nerf for everything that are partially responsible, but that's only because Bungie was dumb enough to listen to them.
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5 RepliesThe Crucible wound up in the state it did because the people who designed the game's gear...and the Sandbox team were pulling in opposite directions. The design people wanted to give us powerful gear and powerful abilities to play with in PVE. But the Sandbox team were determined to have a Crucible that played and felt like Halo....despite the fact that it was designed to play much faster. So they used weapon tuning/balancing in an effort to deliberately SLOW DOWN that game and make it play differently. ...and the problem is that they couldn't balance the game that way...and were never going to be able to. So the more things the nerfed, the more out-of-balance weapon power became relative to the speed of play...and the more ridiculously the game played. For Destiny 2, It seems everyone at Bungie is (finally) starting to get on the same page. With The Crucible being completely redesigned around a weapons system that won't require the sort of balancing they failed at in DEstiny 1.
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I think bungie even knows they've made mistakes at times with this game. But they've worked hard to refine and fix the core systems of the game that weren't what they should have been. Destiny 1 was a series of growing pains and fine tuning for them just as much as it was for us. But I do give them a lot of credit for listening to the community and trying to make the game the best it can be for all of us. Destiny 2 will be the crowning achievement of all that hard work they've put in for us and I'm just glad and happy I've been able to be a part of it all.
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I think it's all well and good, I'm gonna keep blaming pvp for it.
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Yes and no. Think of it this way a business needs to look at the majority and not let this game go stale in weapon balance. Imagine if we didnt change throne meta how boring this game will become if we didn't have any changes in the last 2 years. You know how much this will hurt them. The reason we have forums is because bungie uses our feedback to influence their development. Yes we are partly to blame as it is to bungie.
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While the devs edit the code, we push those edits. While I do not call for needs unless satire [spoiler]nerf fusions, too op[/spoiler] I feel that the community has had the biggest role in these needs that "ruined" the game. [spoiler]i don't think the balance has ever been bad in destiny, my opinion. You can have yours, I'll have mine. [/spoiler]
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My hands are clean
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Take some ownership. Nerf herders pressured Bungie to make changes and they did. Not that Bungie is innocent but the overwhelming majority that states it isn't there fault need to take another look.
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2 RepliesBungie has to be embarrassed at what they've done to PVP. Most engagements start with ability spam and end with ability spam. You're right, it's not our fault. The developers are dumbing down gamers one grenade at a time. It's funny going in a playlist to do a weekly bounty and every time it's the "get 50 kills with a primary" that takes the longest to complete. I'd go as far to say Modern Warfare 2 noob tubes took more skill than what we have in Destiny. To think this is the final meta we will see in many of our favorite game's lifetime is so disheartening. Bungie you done f*€ked up. 💩🙈👎🏼
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1 ReplyEdited by Lull9: 5/28/2017 11:22:34 PMThey do whatever they want. They have their own "vision" for the game where "fun" and real-world player experience/sentiment take a back seat to data analytics. Also, their terrible game engine and/or lack of programming competence and/or unwillingness to expend time or resources to make fixes in a timely manner means that shit usually stays "broken" for a long time. (Unless it affects Eververse transactions)
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Its on the people that wanted to complain over and over about everything being op and unblanced which has led us to the current meta that we are stuck in
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bring back year one :c
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1 ReplyQuite a number of liars
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2 RepliesThe main reason it's all your fault is that at the start Bungie used real numbers and actual science to do balancing, and you hated it. They introduced matchmaking code that worked, and worked well, for almost everybody; the problem was that the people it didn't work for were the most public and most vocal players, and when they threw their toys from the pram, instead of investigating the issue and concluding that they were a bunch of whiners and that all the things they were complaining about had nothing to do with what they were asking for, you investigated nothing and blindly supported them. This sent a clear message to Bungie that you weren't interested in what was objectively better and could be proved so with evidence, but instead you wanted a company that was seen to be doing something about this week's thing that people were complaining about. And that's what you got and that's why it's your fault.
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In the beginning the nerfs could be pinned on bungie. They should be able to take feedback from the community and make impartial well informed decisions about game balance. However. Once Bungie made it abuntantly clear that nerfs were being made simply because players were complaining (I'm looking at you Viking Funeral) then everyone who cried for nerfs needs to take a bit of responsibility for the way subsequent requested nerfs affect the game. Granted its not completely players fault. Bungie still determines the details of these nerfs, and in some cases nerfed things that weren't asked for, but players do play a roll in nerfs. To claim otherwise is willful ignorance.
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Edited by SkinPoppeR: 5/29/2017 4:38:25 AMAgreed. Not our faults. IMO nothing should be nerfed in Destiny. Apart from a few obvious ones. But for the most part the way I see it is nerfs should never happen. If a item is OP than the devs should have made a new item that counters the OP one. That is actually balancing. No need to nerf. Just actually make new gear. I feel that players are gonna play the game how they want. Instead of nerfing new items is better. I remember during year one the hate and love over Gally. Instead of nerfing it and giving it to everyone Bungie should have just made a new weapon to counter the lust for Gally. Not Force players to hate it and how they like to play with a nerf. It is our toy......buddy Sadly Destiny is not that game. I have high hopes for 2. But I see nerfing being a thing in Destiny's future.
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it isn't isn't either or its both destiny has had some of the most severe swings in what's used at times seemingly overnight. People trying for 1-2 loadouts for any given activity is a problem and players CHOSE to do this and bungie didn't take measure to combat this in a meaningful way. The issue is people don't play for enjoyment they play to measure dcks. (so to speak) The fact is whenever a new meta arose there were plenty of weapons that could compete reasonably well. The fact is players don't seek to improve upon there ability in the game rather they want something they can lean on to make up for what they lack. Bungie has had a problem where they decide to CRUSH an entire weapon type as apposed singling out the problematic weapons which even a casual player could tell you with consistency at pretty much all the meta eras in D1. The issue with shotties in D1 the high impact archetype in its nature could reach WAY to far and could compete outside of where it should making cqc a shotgunner's paradise. Bungie could have avoided this by not allowing range perks on this type of shotty at all seeing as it has no need for them and made the weapon type about say RoF or mag capacity.(unpopular opinion I'm aware) Instead we get things like the special ammo change you people are so fond of. (I'm fine with it personally again unpopular opinion I know) The players are most certainly to blame but so is bungie as both react poorly to any change made there can be no real balance until people stop trying to fake being good at the game( some more than other I'll admit) and bungie needs to learn a little finesse and target the problem items not there whole archetype.
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14 Repliesumm, player feedback is a HUGE component to game balance. huge.....
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DON'T DO THIS TO ME MAN. NOT YOU
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1 ReplyNah it's pure Bungie. They just like to blame the community every time they make a mistake by saying "We gave you want you wanted" even though the changes they made not a single person asked for.
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This has been, and will always be, a complicated issue. Ultimately I believe that it is more on the community than the devs when it comes to the state of the game. This is not to say that devs can't make wrong decisions or give us crap at release. However, what the game becomes depends heavily on how the community dives into the game looking in every nook and cranny for exploitation. Throw a competitive element into the mix and a meta will rise and fall faster than the tides. Could and should bungie respond differently to these metas? That will be a matter of opinion, but one this is for certain: There is no perfect competitive game and any change will never satisfy the masses...and even if it did, a new meta is just around the corner.
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TL;DR: bungie should stop trying to cater to everyone and we, as a community should be more considerate about what we have and what we ask for. Yea, its less about being "so much of a fan of the game" and more about patterns. Sit here at the forum and youll see it, people complain and threaten to leave the game if aspects of the game arent fixed, the community constantly preasures bungie to give them quick patches that fix anything they deem "unfair" Now, there is a time and place for feedback. Telling a developer that you can jump out of the map; thats somsthing that needs to be reported, voicing your vendetta against curtain video game weapons to the point where you demand people to get fired from their jobs... or even make death threats or threat to kill themselves... thats no longer feedback. Now, lets go back to the pattern i metioned, it goes something like this: Players pressure bungie for nerfs Bungie gives us nerfs. Players complain that no one wanted nerfs in the first place and preasure bungue to fix it. Players eventually move onto the next meta. Players complain...Cycle continues. Imagine of a great artist painted a beautiful landscape. Then someone walked up and, with good intentions, painted a few trees, then someone else came and painted mountains, and so on and so on. Eventually, the painting that was beautiful becomes a mess... is it the fault of the artist for trying to please everyone? Sure. But you could make the arguement that the people with paint on their hands also have some blame on their shoulders. Now, the arguement of "well bungie should know what feedback is good and what isnt" is a moot point. Theyre trying to cater to everyone... so trying to do that by listening to only a handful of posters is a bit silly. Everyone and their mother has a list of things they want to fix in crucible that will "make destiny great again". But let me ask, how many of those posts do you think have fixes that will be universally praised by all the players? Do you really think everyone wants a side arm nerf? Or nerfing every subclass except for hunters?
