Hm. I will only help someone if they're willing to listen. I have a very long fuse, but even I can be taken to my wits end by some of the people I've met. Sure this list sounds nice, but in actuality it's unrealistic. To want these expectations are a virtual impossibility due to the blatant disrespect people have. It's sickening. I assume a leadership role in most of the content I play, mainly because there is typically no leadership to begin with. I've put myself through terrible groups on LFG with some of the worst human beings I've met to take that knowledge back to my friends to assist them in beating whatever challenge may lie ahead. I don't mind this list, nor do I mind your expectations. But this community is too far gone for such positivity to last. You're a good man with a good heart, something to be respected. Keep it up, but be careful.

[quote]Granted, this is my opinion, but I also believe I’m right. [/quote] Spoken like a true Christian. Because all of you are always right. All the time. 😑

You don't have to be a religious person to appreciate this post. Awesome list - if everyone taught everyone else how to raid, had been patient, and assigned tasks instead of asking who wants to do it and then hear silence, then we would have people bad at it move to good, and people who are good at it move to great.

It's reassuring to see that other players have that mentality. I know I've been guilty at times of lacking patience with players, but on the flipside I have been able to "pay the favour back" from time to time (sherpa'ing a player and his team through the KF a year or so on from him sherpa'ing me through the VoG for ecample). Good one, and keep up the good work!

Here, have a bump. Your clan sounds like something I'd like.

I haven't read this yet, but I'm just going to do this to annoy the shit out of people. [quote]In our clan, we say that we want to be a group that helps others with activities while also encouraging them as people, and while we seek to do this for the glory of Jesus, we ought to also do it because it’s the right thing to do. Granted, this is my opinion, but I also believe I’m right. While a group may try to uphold these same kind of principles, whether they are Christians or not (because many other clans seek to be helpful and encouraging), those efforts can be more successful if we all remember a few things. I’m calling them the seven deadly sins of multiplayer game play, and here they are: 1. Someone died and made me king/queen: This is when someone on the fireteam appoints himself or herself the boss of everyone else. There is no spirit of cooperation, making suggestions and letting people decide. No, there is only an assumption that we know better than everyone else and that they should do what we say. People don’t enjoy playing with people who are bossy, demanding, or elitist, although they might use such a person to complete a task. If we want people to help us or play with us, even if we’re the person who one-manned 390 Vault of Glass, show others respect and let them decide who leads, which could be a different person at any given moment. Good leaders lead; they don’t boss people. This is a prevalent problem with younger people I see, because they can be a little arrogant at times (I've raised six kids!), but it’s also in older people like me as well. 2. I’m talking, and I can’t shut up: Communicating and hanging out is fun, and everyone likes to talk to each other. On the other hand, if we’re doing most of the talking and running over others, it can get pretty annoying. Once again, while some adults struggle with this at times, many young people today seem to have a problem understanding that they are crowding others out by talking non-stop, and if we have a raid team full of young people, it often turns into a battle over who can talk the most, while also becoming a fight over number one in the list above. I believe that God gave us two ears and one mouth because we should be listening more than we’re talking, and it helps in gameplay as well as relationships. Of course, if you believe that the flying spaghetti monster (FSM) made that happen, it still works the same way. So if we want others to play with us, perhaps we could slow down the talking and listen to others as well. If we want others to think we’re a good conversationalist, ask questions and listen! 3. Heavens to mergatroid, I’m the Energizer bunny: Video games are all about action and movement, meaning little movements with fingers and big movements with your characters! Occasionally when playing with others, we discover that one person who will not stay still, such as when we’re going through the Gorgon maze, looking to complete that node in the Age of Triumph book, and the person alerts every enemy to our presence before we’re ready, blowing the attempt for everyone. Once again, people will want to play with us if we’ll practice just a little restraint at the appropriate times. Even old people like me enjoy jumping off the top of Felwinter’s Peak repeatedly to see if they survive, but being considerate of others, even when we’ve had too many Mountain Dews, is important if you want others to mark you as a preferable player. 4. You snooze; you lose: Perhaps we all grow up wanting to be picked first or to be the first to do something, but if we want others to truly enjoy playing with us, we have to learn to share! That means not always being the first to pick up the relic in Vault of Glass or the sword in Crota’s End. It means letting the new person run the relic on King’s Fall or letting the person who has never killed Mexis on Wrath of the Machine have a go at it. I know, I know…some of us just want to get through the raid or the nightfall, so we have to do everything because all these scrubs have no idea what they are doing, but remember that all of us are scrubs at something; therefore, it matters how we treat one another, because I believe again that God (or your FSM) allows things that we sow to come back to us. So, let’s sow some good actions along the way so that they come back to us when we need them! 5. I’m surrounded by idiots: Ever feel like that new person is never going to learn how to shoot that cannon on Wrath of the Machine or detonate those orbs in King’s Fall? Yes, we’ve all been there, haven’t we? It’s so ridiculous! Oh, you think I’m talking about the person who keeps messing up? No, I’m talking about us, because we need to learn to be more patient and understanding! Do you realize that if we would teach new people each week how to do things, we would soon have a huge resource of people who could do anything? That would be better for everyone. Once again, I believe that God (or your FSM) wants us to care more about people than things, and a game is a thing. When we only care about the game and what we get, we’ve missed the whole point of games as a tool for socialization and learning in the first place. Oh, and this is where that nasty trait of anger comes in as well. If we want people to want to play with us, let’s be patient and encouraging. 6. I cannot tell a lie; it’s not me: At the same time that we should learn to be more patient, we should also learn to take one for the team. If the whole raid is becoming frustrating and there is the slightest chance that my red bar connection is causing those glitches, I should jump out if someone else can take my place, because preventing everyone from moving forward just because I want the rewards is just as selfish as not wanting to play with newer, inexperienced people because it might hold me back. There has to be a balance. People may want to help me, but maybe I am just having a hard time getting a certain part down. This can be an important point for we older people who weren't born with a controller in our hands! If I want people to continue to want to play with me, I may have to be considerate and step out at times so that they can perhaps complete the activity. Again, I know, I know…if my people were all capable of one-manning all the raids, it wouldn’t be a problem! Realistically, few people one-man raids compared to the masses, and we can’t expect everyone to carry us on everything, although they should try to help as much as possible. We need to try until we see that we’ve held everyone else back long enough, gracefully bow out, let someone else help, and then go practice our skills until next time. This will cause people to want to play with us more, because they will know that we’re not just thinking of ourselves. 7. It’s better to receive than to give: Sometimes we complain about wanting people in our clan or group to help us, but we fail to do our part. What is our part? First, I would suggest to you that we have to be willing to ask people for help, not just once but often. Just because I want to do the nightfall right now doesn’t mean that other people aren’t in the middle of something or trying to help someone else, and my wants do not outweigh their wants. Be patient, ask often, and wait for help. Sometimes helping people can be overwhelming, because there can be so many people who haven’t done certain things, and let’s be fair in that each of us still has our own circle of friends with whom we enjoy playing. Do people throw aside their own friends every time someone wants help? Of course not! On the other hand, if we keep asking for help, we should see the fruit of our efforts sooner or later. People need time to get familiar with us, so again, be patient. Second, I would also suggest that as we learn and get help, we start paying it forward, meaning we should start helping others in the group or clan instead of trying to make the helping fireteam our own fireteam. When we are helped, we should pay it forward, helping others, until we have made our own connections in the clan or group, allowing us to form our own fireteam, which in turn should help others from time to time. This becomes more possible if we avoid the seven deadly sins listed. Without a doubt, this list is not exhaustive, but because I love people, I wanted to help some people see what might be keeping others from wanting to play with them. It’s also a resource for friends or acquaintances to say, “Hey, you know, I think this list might help you, especially number two.”  Or perhaps you could say, “Hey, could you honestly tell me if I’m doing any of these things on this list?” The more I learn, the more ignorant I realize I am. In the end, all we can do is stand in the light and keep pushing back the darkness![/quote]

Science and same sex marriage [spoiler]maybe just bend the rules a little god from the old testament wouldn't mind[/spoiler]

Need a bottle or two of Seven Deadly Zins to get thru that cluster of text. At least its broke down i suppose. Not much of a wine drinker at that. Just the name goes along with OP

#7 Well you can't really give in this game. There's not trading or "Need, Greed, and Pass" system for loot

Good points i just wish you didnt feel the need to bring religion into it,🤢🤢🤢.

Here we go again with the same old idiots from three years ago asking that destiny could be made into a child friendly environment when you dumass haven't realised that this game is about war & the survival of the human race. So take your religion & your crap and keep it to yourself

Muted. Now get off my property churchy. Smithers, release the hounds. Excellent!

Nice list. I was expecting you to get a lot of hate in the comments for bringing religion into this, but I was pleasantly surprised (with the exception of a couple people). It's nice to see people on these forums actually making a nice respectful post for a change. Also, I liked the Christian themes you dropped in there (I'm Catholic personally), and the thing about 2 ears and 1 mouth was good, I'm going to use that. Only thing I think you should've changed was the title. I came here expecting a post telling people not to teabag, grab heavy after waving, send hatemail, that kind of thing, so saying the 7 deadly sins of raiding may have been more appropriate imo.

If a person in my raid soloed vog at 390, im taking his advice over everyone else cuz he knows better on what needs to be done to succeed

I agree with all of these, gaming would be much more enjoyable if we all cooperated/respected each other, and put others before ourselves. Remember Jesus Others You JOY.

I didn't read the whole post because I'm lazy have a job wife and 2 kids but are you telling me I can't tea bag in crucible anymore to make the world a better place?

Love the thoughts

Great list Alpha! I do have a problem with talking a lot, but I feel like I try to give others some breathing room as well.... I just talk a lot when I'm excited... I can't help but feel you got that "You snooze, you lose" thing from me cause I remember I said that as a joke a while back... All in all, great work and it gave me something to ponder over and look at myself...