I agree with him 100% which is why I don't play trials. Just like not everyone should be able to complete raids. Stop trying to lower the bar to success. No participation trophies everywhere in life...sorry.

People complain too much. I'm average at PVP and I find randoms on LFG and go flawless once or twice a week. No stress, no problems, although I'm usually drunk when I play trials cause otherwise I'd sweat too much.

I only play Destiny for rumble. I get on to show m************ who's the Boss, beat they ass when I ain't got they lil home boys.... Diminishing of value of whoever got trials whatever. that shit don't scare me I will still whoop most of these mother -blam!-ers asses... streamers and all without 16 hours of gameplay

with Top Tier players like Mtashed complaining about Trials , you can take the comments of the "designer" and throw them under a bus.. Trials is NOT working as intended.. it WORKED as intended in the beginning, where you could gather a team and get a shot at the lighthouse and get paired against normal players that tried the same.. now its only 16hrs a day streamers and OVER average players.. SBMM does not work since there are simply not enough "normal" players playing this kind of activity due to missing matchmaking and in game possibility to find a team. The activity got a bit of a renaissance with the bounties where you could get a shot at loot with decent perks just by playing but bungie missed the chance to cater to the lower tier players just in the sense of availability of the activity for them. If they want players in there they need to provide a tool to find a team. since YES the normal/average player does have a problem finding or forming a pre made, constant team to "train" with since the concept of "training for a videogame" is utterly alien to them since its a "game" and not a job or a sport.. .. so without any teamfinder IN GAME this activity will be reserved for those who can affort to sink in 72 hours a weekend to play and 4 hours a day to "train".with a fixed team.. the rest simply cant win flawless until very lucky or getting carried.. you can watch streams and see even good beyond average teams getting rekt quite often.

It makes sense. Just like not everyone can beat a raid. Not everyone can go flawless. Of course you can still carry in both things

As a dev, you should [i]always[/i] put your players in a position to succeed. That's what brings people back. Games can be challenging and difficult, but if the players can't get past level 5 because it's just too damn hard, guess what? They'll play something else. This is what happened in Y2, hence the Gold Bounty being able to be farmed since the April Update. And this notion of Pros vs Joes astounds me. Why is video game PvP the [i]only [/i]place where people deem it appropriate? Would you be ok with 5th graders playing against 8th graders? Nope. Parents would break out the pitchforks. If they want [i]actual[/i] endgame competition, either pit the Best vs Best and Joes vs Joes (with appropriate rewards), or don't let Joes play it. Putting your customers in a position to fail is putting yourself in a position to fail.

As somebody who sucks at PVP, I agree. Trials is [i]supposed[/i] to be end-game content for the PVP elite. It's not [i]meant[/i] to be accesible for those of us who are not in fact in the top PVP tiers. As someone who will never get to the Lighthouse without being carried there, I totally support that. PVE-centrics like myself have the raid; PVP-centrics have Trials. Neither needs to be "nerfed" or "made more accesible". [b]LEAVE THEM BE.[/b]

Been playing trials for a long time, I'm average and the struggle for the lighthouse is always real. I have come a long way from where I started but realize I will never be an MLG but I am competent enough to learn from my mistakes and always improve my game in some form. Trials isn't a 6v6 lax game mode. That flawless ain't never going to be given to you, gotta earn that shit. And it will be rewarding when you do. Sure your going to run against carries, streamers, and just better players. But sometimes you gotta play your best against them, get it handed to you, learn from that game and carry on.

Love when ppl get made at ppl doing carries. Like u really wanna play them on a stacked team? This is ur only chance at beating them...

So how do: - paid carries - account recoveries - bad connections - or the lack of any form of sbmm ...factor into this. Most of the carries are below average or barely average and they get to reap the rewards that average players without the means or wish to pay for help can't get. Destiny is about "playing with friends" and "becoming legend" together. You can see it in the raid philosophy. However, WishYouLuck is not my friend and I have to pay him $50 to go to the Lighthouse without my friends, if I want a shot at flawless without the added ulcer. [spoiler]I took Wish as an example, not to call him out. There are many streamers like that and I actually like him and watch him sometimes[/spoiler] People are forced into watching Twitch and not playing the game for a chance at a "raffle" luck of the draw just to get an adept weapon and an emblem. Not even that. 7 wins have become even harder than before. And even if you do have a good team, it's still red bar and "fake green bars" after 5 wins on a card. I call it "crossing the event horizon into a different reality". One where the laws that govern our dimension do not apply. Red is green, motion and time are not linear and the more you try to understand it the more you fail. It's not a theory, it's a well known fact. The farther in the ticket you are the worse the connection quality gets. Even major Trials players are sick of that, not to mention average joes like me. I have far less problems with being beaten by really good players than I have with being beaten by my shots not connecting and loosing progress because of that. We all know Y1 Trials was also plagued by problems like "only a very small pool of usable weapons", final round snipers, blink shotgun, etc. but at least Bungie kept their promise of connections being "crisp af". And they were. I played and got more flawless runs in 3 months than I did in the full year of TTK being relevant. Look people, I'm all for "getting better at the game" and have been working towards that goal since TDB. I play tons of pvp and could run cyrcles around my Y1 self with what I've learned so far. However there are packs of roaming wolves that play all weekend, over and over again, just to stop others from reaching 9-0. Deliberately taking away any chance of success. They even message you afterwards. "Not today scrub." after they 5-0 you and your team. And they play so well that you just can't win if you don't no-life pvp and have like 10 years of console FPS experience under your belt. The streamers claiming to "help people go 9-0" out of the purity of their hearts hurt way more people than they help. For every double carry they do they deny 27 people that same thing [spoiler]9 x 3 people is 27 people. That's 9 teams they beat in one card[/spoiler] But they don't care. All they care about is that $4.99 sub cash. I personally believe that Trials has hurt this game more than it helped it. Destiny before and after Trials was introduced is not even comparable. And not in a good way. 99% of the nerfs and problems of PVP have originated from Trials. And it's so unbalanced and riddled with problems that it drives people away from playing it, instead of drawing people in. One of my 2016 New Year resolutions was "Not to play Trials until the next DLC" and that should tell you something when you know that I love pvp and play Destiny every day, still after over 15 months. In conclusion: Mantis being all high and mighty when telling people to "play strikes" if they don't like SBMM is completely oblivious to what he's saying with regards to Trials "not being for the average player". Just like before, this tweet only shows how disconnected he is from the realities of every day Destiny play. I know he's not a bad guy and I believe it's not easy to deal with the constant whining toxic Destiny community, but being an a-hole on Twitter doesn't solve anything. Especially when you don't know what you're saying. And in this instance, mantis has no f-ing clue how ignorantly arrogant his message is.

Trials is dead.. HATE to say it but it's true. Bungie clearly doesn't care about cheaters anymore of how badly the matchmaking is or anything else.

I agree, never been flawless...I'll get there someday and I really hope they don't make it easier before I do...

Trials is built for the "best of the best" in Guardian-to-Guardian combat. That's it. [i]I want that cloak so bad...[/i]

If average players shouldn't go flawless then ban carrys.

So what I'm being told, is that I can't access content I paid for? Well that's nice to know. I hate trials so much. I'm tired of the POS they call a competitive mode. It's not. There's no proper placements based of current skill or anything in place to deal with the redbars. Another thing I hate is how trials gets compared to a raid. It's clearly not the same level of difficulty. Raids you learn what needs to be done and do it. Trials is luck of the draw, whether or not your opponent is lesser than you. And who has the better roles on the current meta. Going flawless does take a lot of skill, more than completing the raid. I would bet there are more people who have gone flawless multiple times and completed all the raids, hard and challenge mode than the other way around. Trials is not a true competitive mode until its properly regulated. You shouldn't have a team who never gone flawless let alone got the 9 wins on their passage, go against a team who has gone flawless 100 times. That's not a competition, it's a slaughter that's about to happen. And that's not how one "gits gud." That's how people walk away. You become a better player going against those your same rank and beating essentially yourself. If a persons skill is the same as yours and you beat them, you bested your current best and therefore improved your skill. You can't climb Mt.Everest if you never climbed a mountain. Edit: I'm not asking for handouts people! I'm saying it needs to be reformatted, looked at again, so its proper competition!