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Edited by JensBoef:
8/31/2016 3:32:54 PM
44
Fixing ghost bullets: bring legendary hand cannons back to HoW strength!
The first weapon I saw from The Taken King was Omolon’s Kumakatok HC4. It was one of the most awesome looking weapons I ever saw in Destiny and looked forward to using it. What surprised me was the short range of the weapon. Same goes for the other Omolon hand cannons like the Uffern, Down and Doubt 00-0 and The Vanity. I figured range on hand cannon's wouldn’t be an issue anymore in the Taken King. I was so wrong!
At this point I don’t think I’ve been killed more than two times by a Kumakatok in the crucible. Same goes for the other hand cannons I named above. They are pretty much useless because of their short range. Even with rifled barrel they are pretty much garbage because of bloom and ghost bullets.
Why?
We know there was a problem with exotic hand cannons like The Last Word and Thorn. But never with legendary hand cannons!
Many famous Destiny YouTubers like Hush, nKuch, Unknown Player and JMPdoubleX made videos on this issue: In order to make hand cannons work you need a hand cannon with a high base range like Finalla’s Peril, Lord High Fixer, Eyasluna or Imago Loop. It needs to have Rangefinder and Rifled barrel (or reinforced barre, but that messes up your stability).
So a high base range, rangefinder and rifled barrel will fix the problem. But what are the odds of getting such a roll? Slim to none. And a bit higher if you can play Destiny for a living.
Bungie, there was nothing wrong with legendary hand cannons! Bring them back to House of Wolves strength! Remove the bloom issue, fix the extreme damage drop off, fix ghost bullets! Or using hand cannons will only be for the people who play Destiny 8-10 hours a day instead of one hour a day.
By the way, thank you for that one Finalla’s Peril drop from last Iron Banner! Exhumed and Injection mold are extremely useful on hand cannons…… :S
EDIT:
If you want to fix your ghost bullets and want a "high base range hand cannon" with rangefinder and rifled barrel here are your odds!:
If you manage to get a Finalla's Peril, The Devil You Know, Eyasluna or a Lord High Fixer the chances of getting one with both rifled barrel and rangefinder are a slim 1,5%! (rangefinder (1/13) * rifled barrel (1/5) * 100)
With an Imago Loop your chances are even lower: 0,77%! (rangefinder (1/13) * rifled barrel (1/10) * 100)
Check Planet Destiny for more info.
But even with reforge chances are you have to reforge your weapon about 100 times!
Bungie, this sucks!
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I got a perfect eyasluna and i think its all fine with handcannons
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I miss using hand cannons Bungie!
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1 ReplyI had a Kumakatok that had amazing stats but using it was an exercise in futility. So disappointing. Finnalas and Eyasluna are the only real options for me, as I landed decent rolls with those 2. The one that saladdin sold after last IB was pretty beastly.
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2 RepliesReally if they would tone down the bloom it would be fine. The damage drop off alone makes you keep your engagements in range. Being able to hit what you are aiming at without bullets going off in odd directions is all that needs fixing.
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I just want ghost bullets on the last word to -blam!- off
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1 ReplySo basically you're saying you want a spam cannon not a hand cannon.
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1 ReplyEdited by Rico: 8/30/2016 10:14:33 PM>Bring them back to HOW strenght No I agree on bloom, but ALL Handcannons on HoW could map people. Anyone rememebrs the baby hawkmoon from fwc? Roll final round, litc and braced frame, and it VERY close to how amazing hawkmoon was The ONLY way making Handcannons as good as HoW acceptable if they went out at brought pulse rifles back to 2.0, autorifles back to 1.0, shotguns to 1.11, and scouts to 2.1 (aka high caliber round on mida) If bungie decided right now to bring HC's to how strenght (which were amazing) everyone would stop using pulse rifles and the low impact AR's and use HC'S 24/7, especially in rumble. And the fact IB sold a godly roll Peril and Eysaluna being amazing would make this even worse
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[quote]At this point I don’t think I’ve been killed more than two times by a Kumakatok in the crucible. Same goes for the other hand cannons I named above. They are pretty much useless because of their short range. Even with rifled barrel they are pretty much garbage because of bloom and ghost bullets. Why?[/quote] Because then they would make every other gun type irrelevant. Up close? forget autos just use last word. Mid range? forget pulses and scouts just use any handcannon. Far range? forget scouts just use any handcannon.
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3 RepliesThe only useable archetype that reliably doesn't ghost bullets is The First Curse archetype, because they fire so slow, bloom doesn't have a chance to screw you over. Get one of those with LITC and you can reliably 2-3 tap people like an Eyasluna but while actually hitting your shots.
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2 RepliesThat's the truth right there
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13 RepliesWhy you trying to snipe with a handcannon? If you focus on range not stability there is not ghost bullets.
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12 RepliesGit gud before you complain
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7 Repliesthe vendor roll was outlaw and reactive from IB.....and the ufferen and vanity are the only decent ones that you mentioned, you will have to get a good luna or lord high fixer if you want your really good hc
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2 RepliesAfter reading 2 paragraphs, I've come to the conclusion that want hand cannons to be the most reliable gun in the game. Capable of killing at basically any range. Hand cannons are are in a good spot. If you want hand cannons to "HoW reliability" then you can beat out a scout. The reason legendary hand cannons weren't used is because thorn and last word were better. To say legendary hand cannons weren't good is basically just laughable. If anything needs buffing it's medium RoF archetype pulses like NTTE and reflection sum. As well as buff lowest RoF autos and highest RoF scouts. I think primaries are fine.
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Also, any mid impact HC with rifled barrel is good. Auto rifles NEED perfect rolls so they can't actually compete
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6 Replies[quote]Bungie, there was nothing wrong with legendary hand cannons! Bring them back to House of Wolves strength! Remove the bloom issue, fix the extreme damage drop off, fix ghost bullets![/quote] Aside from getting cross mapped by hand cannons there was nothing wrong with them. What you're asking for has already proven itself to be unbalanced during HoW. Every weapon has an ideal range that they excel at. Hand cannons shouldn't be an exception to this rule.
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9 RepliesAfter carefully reading your post I've come to realize that your problem is a not a nerf to hand cannons. Rather you want HC to be the only usable thing in the crucible. HC's, for the most part, are in a good place right now. They function well at the range they were intended to i.g. Mid to short. From the sounds of things, you want HC's that will outperform all but the high impact scouts and that's simply unacceptable.
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My solution for hand cannons is truster what they were meant to do and that is REWARD HIGH GUN SKILL. In order to do that they need to get rid of ghost bullets and bloom. The range drop off will not allow hand cannons to compete at pulse to scout rifle range without a disadvantage. With that being said, there should also be a nerf to the base damage of all hand cannons requiring them to land more critical shots then body shots. for instance: Eyasluna usually kills with 2 body 1 headshot. If you were to change that to 1 body 2 headshot that would reward a skilled hand as hand cannons were meant to be. IMO bloom and ghost bullets are too RNG for game that is to be a precise first person shooter. This is the best plan i have thought of please comment and tell me problems or concerns with what i propose.
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Just lose the ghost bullets and bloom and keep the falloff or make it more severe. They were intended to reward a skilled and accurate hand with high burst damage at close to mid range. It feels so bad to have a gunfight decided by whether my HC throws ghost bullets or not.
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1 ReplySo, from what I understand after carefully reading this, we need to nerf fusion rifles
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4 RepliesI got a Finalla's Peril after joining in a game with around 30 seconds left. Icarus (apparently very decent on HC's) Rangefinder Rifled barrel and Sureshot I just want a decently rolled high impact Scout Rifle though. The only one i have is a Colovance's Duty that only has outlaw and explosive rounds as nice perks. Love those two, but they don't work with each other.
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2 RepliesYup. I made this point before patch 2.0 hit. Legendary HC:s were never a problem, it was only the exotic three that needed adjustments, but just like the case with Suros and auto rifles, Bungie decided to need the entire weapon class. The whole bloom thing needs to be removed. Hand cannons already have severe damage drop off, they have very limited effective ranges, and they need to be accurate within those ranges to be competitive. The Water Star/Kumakatok archetype is all but useless, as you literally can't utilise the full RoF without suffering from accuracy bloom.
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12 RepliesEdited by alldaz484: 8/29/2016 4:30:31 PMI have an Uffren with LITC, Rifled barrel and Outlaw=my Favorite gun I have a Judith with crowd control, final round and hand loaded=its good I have a Kumakatok with LITC, Rifled barrel and eye of the storm=honestly haven't used it yet
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5 RepliesI find the 22ROF/81Impact archetype of HCs to be my favourites [armory]The Devil You Know[/armory], [armory]Lord high Fixer[/armory], [armory]Her Revenge[/armory], [armory]Eyasluna[/armory], [armory]Finnala's Peril[/armory], [armory]Imago Loop[/armory], [armory]Byronic Hero[/armory], and apparently [armory]Gaheris-D[/armory] The 32ROF/68Impact archetype is also pretty good: [armory]The Water Star[/armory], [armory]The Revelator[/armory], [armory]Stolen Pride[/armory], [armory]Appellant III[/armory]. There is a middle ground 32/71 archetype - but they are super short range. The fastest firing LOW Impact HCs actually keep up with the 22/81s for range so if the 22s seem too slow firing then SKIP the medium-low impact ones and go straight to the super low impact ones and you will still be working in the same range that you are used to, but getting off that last killing bullet a fraction of a second earlier. The max impact and the medium low impact seem to be designed for high headshot % players, for use in close and long range. The 2 archetypes that I've highlighted seem to be far more well rounded for players who need a weapon to clean up kills or to dual in the close to medium range against Auto Rifles and Pulse Rifles. As for "ghost bullets" isn't this just a combination of lag and attempting to fire at max ROF or at a very long range? It strikes me that in the cases where lag isn't a factor, a switch to either a longer range HC or a faster ROF HC might be better for the player than raging that the weapon is broken.
