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Edited by Cayde Seven:
6/28/2016 8:06:45 PM
29
Fanatics in Vault of Glass, The Vex Attempt to Replicate a Throne World
I like the Hive Throne World theory- that the Vault of Glass may be an attempt to replicate one, and an idea popped into my head last night reading some stuff and thinking about the Vault of Glass.
The Fanatics in the Templar's Well- these are Vex enemies that we only encounter in the Vault, and there's a few interesting things about them.
They appear to be infected or corrupted Vex units. If you look at them closely, they emit a green gaseous substance that looks similar or the same as the substance fuming from Bad Juju.
They rush you and explode in proximity, much like a Cursed Thrall- they are a Goblin, the base unit of the Vex, and Thrall are the base unit of the Hive.
When killed or when they self-detonate, they drop a pool of green liquid on the ground, and if you touch it, it gives you a debuff "marked for negation" that has paracausal power, which is something the Vex may have gained knowledge of from The Hive.
They also do not / cannot sacrifice themselves to the confluxes, which may suggest further that they are not wholly Vex, or pure enough to be a proper sacrifice... but what are they infected or corrupted by? Could it be The Hive?
There is one other Fanatic present in the game, The Fanatic of Crota.
My speculation as to how the Vex (Fanatics specifically) could be infected by the Hive is through their interactions with Hive Throne Worlds.
This is all speculation, but I found the multiple connections/similarities interesting.
Edit / copypasta a reply regarding Hive/Vex interactions prior to our timeline:
[quote]In the Books of Sorrow, Crota cuts a hole in space/time and the Vex enter Oryx's Throne World (this is a long time before our game's timeline).
Starting [url=http://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/xxxviii-the-partition-of-death]here[/url], the story of Vex in a throne world goes on for a few cards.[/quote]
Edit for correction per VincibleInk424's reply:
[quote]It is not simulated, simulated means run on a computer. The vault could be a replication throne world or a synthetic one but not a simulated throne world because guardians cannot be simulated and we enter the vault.[/quote]
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3 RepliesI usually don't care about a games story, or lore but they could of at least gave a little more effort into this games past.
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15 RepliesEdited by Flashman: 7/1/2016 11:20:10 AMInteresting idea that got me thinking: the Templar performs a [i][b]ritual[/b][/i] of negation. Not exactly a word pertaining to logic as well as being very much a Hive thing. That being said, the Vex also sacrifice themselves which fits into the same type of language as a ritual. -e- Just thought about another thing which may support or invalidate this idea... In the Black Garden mission, the ancient Vex before the Heart are in a knelt position, akin to prayer, before turning towards the player. This is similar to Hive Acolytes (or is it Knights?) which can be often found kneeling with their weapons floating above them. Depends on whether the Heart is indeed tied closely to the Hive; or not if it is rather another Vex aspect similar to their sacrificing, I suppose.
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5 RepliesEdited by EARWAK3R: 7/2/2016 1:31:36 PMWhy did somebody 'correct' you about using the word simulated? Simulated DOES NOT mean run by computer. Heres the legit definition simulated ˈsɪmjʊleɪtɪd/Submit adjective manufactured in imitation of some other material. "a simulated leather handbag" (of an emotion) pretended or feigned. "she howled in simulated anguish" imitating the conditions of something, especially as a training exercise. "a simulated terrorist attack" So if you were to say the hive simulated a throne world. You would be correct.
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6 RepliesIt is not simulated, simulated means run on a computer. The vault could be a replication throne world or a synthetic one but not a simulated throne world because guardians cannot be simulated and we enter the vault.
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2 RepliesI think the vault is a testing ground in an attempt to replicate hive weapons. The ritual of negligence with the oracles and fanatics is an attempt to recreate the hive song of death. They know how to kill us by ear asking us from reality, they just didn't know how to do it with just the song so they developed the fanatics to mark them so they can be wiped from reality. Then the vex made the oracles which can remotely mark targets. Perhaps that's why they create a sort of song when they appear.
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1 ReplyI think fanatics are sacrificed vex and that's why they can't be sacrificed and when you are marked it's you being sacrificed and that would explain where the sacrificed vex bodies go.
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We know that Vex and Hive worship the same gods. Hive Worship Worms. Worms are the Darkness or Servants of the Darkness (Book of sorrows) Vex Worshiped the Black Heart (A piece of the darkness or a worm itself) At the end they worship the same thing. [b] I knew this long before TTK: that one mission where we had to free the Traveler's shard from the Hive. It had the same green mist as the VoG cursed vex. [/b]
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Bump. This brings up some interesting point I'm going to look into.
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4 RepliesI'm pretty sure fanatics can sacrifice themselves
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11 RepliesThank you! Finally, something in contrast to the shitposts that are surfacing. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/207746181?sort=0&page=0]cough*[/url] [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/207781521?sort=0&page=0]cough*[/url] [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/207742348?sort=0&page=0]cough*[/url] [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/207774921?sort=0&page=0]cough*[/url]
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1 ReplyDidn't the Vex Quaria or whatever it's called try to simulate or copy the Hives sword logic? Maybe they only got so much.
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I'm pretty sure you're totally correct. That vex mind that got into Oryx's throne world studied how it worked, how power could be achieved through the hives system of worship.
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very interesting, indeed!
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This is very interesting!
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8 RepliesYour username made me cry
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8 RepliesIt's an interesting thought. Atheon is far stronger for being in the vault, but he isn't swelled to the size of Oryx because he doesn't have a tribute system in place. However it depends on timing. I believe Crota was sent to deal with humanity because he screwed up by letting the vex in. He's been here a while because he kills a bunch of early guardians. The vault of glass was on Venus already way before Crota showed up. So they don't really line up unless you use vex time travel.
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3 RepliesWhat do you know about the Vault, Cayde? You had your eye on it... [i]I AM THE VAULT[/i] as far as you're concerned.
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1 ReplyThalnok is the ultimate fanboy
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1 ReplyIn fragment XLIII, there is talk of the Vex experimenting and trying to learn of these Throne Worlds.
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2 RepliesSo, one thing I always wondered: If, in the Vault of Glass, the Gorgons had the ability to erase things from existence, why did the Templar need oracles to do the same thing? I believe they functioned in the same manner. The oracles generated an ideal situation, and the Templar brought it to life. But the gorgons could do it by simply staring at you? What if the Gorgons were the Vex's attempt of simulating "taking?" As we know, Oryx made the creatures that he "took" into the perfect versions of themselves. That seems to be what the vex did. First, they created the templar and his oracles and made their weapon. Second, after experiencing sword logic and their hive interactions, they learned how to take, and the harpies knife was erasing foes from existence.
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5 Repliesread your books of sorrow. Oryx and the Hive have tangled with the Vex before Crota set up shop in our backyard. (crappiest lemonade ever). Anyway, the fanatics are most definitely "infected" units.
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3 RepliesCould they have been corrupted by Crota when he went into the vex home world
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3 RepliesThey are antibodies.
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1 ReplyI got more out of this Is it truly possible that the Vault of Glass is essentially the equivalent of a Hive Throne World?
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3 RepliesHi cayde
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5 RepliesI disagree with some of this. I don't see a similarity to juju save the bit of green, and I don't think the fanatics are "impure." Rather, they seem to be an extension of the Templar. They mark for negation that which the Templar wants marked. That said, you missed a key point that seemingly supports your theory: the confluxes. Sacrifice to the confluxes seems to me to be akin to sword logic. The Templar is empowered by these deaths in much the same way as a Hive is. And what better way to gain logic than to set up a system that allows one entity to gain piles of kills?
