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#Halo

10/10/2009 10:30:41 PM
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The Precursor and Their Three Children: V1.2

[quote][b]NOTE:[/b] [i]portions of this theory come from both my own [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=33340499]"The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution"[/url], and Wolverfrog's [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=36430414&postRepeater1-p=1]"Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?"[/url] (for which I was given permission to use by Wolverfrog). As much as I dislike making required reading for one of my theories, it is[/i] [b]imperative[/b] [i]that those who read this theory also read both of those listed above, and read them first. I hope you enjoy them as much as I did, and be assured that it is more than worth your time.[/i][/quote] [quote][/quote] [b][u]Disclaimers:[/b][/u] [b]WARNING![/b]- This theory is exceedingly large. If you don't like reading, I suggest discretion! In addition, if you are not planning on reading the theory in its entirety, please do not respond. It defeats the purpose of all of the information I took the time to write up here for your benefit. [b]"FAVORITISM" WARNING![/b]- This theory draws heavily on "The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution", one of my own theories. If that theory proves to be incorrect, at least one portion of this theory will also be incorrect. Not only is this theory based heavily upon the universe created by the Precursor's supposed creation of the Flood, they go hand-in-hand. I ask you to forgive me for expanding upon one of my previous threads in a separate thread, but I also ask you to take notice of the monstrous size and importance of this theory in and of itself, and realize that it did, indeed, warrant separation from the original, even if a few of the core concepts are shared. [b]FACTUAL INFORMATION FOOTNOTE[/b]- Due to the scant information about some of the times this theory discusses, portions of this theory are comprised of correlative assumption. All the facts that can be gathered, have; I've done the absolute best that I can to show evidence and make the theory fit snugly into the [i]Halo[/i] universe, but certain sections are still lacking. I invite you to look past the lack of factual information and view this theory as it should be viewed: a piece of writing designed to not only stimulate your own minds, but evolve with time and information to become closer and closer to the actual events. [quote][/quote] [b][u]Introduction to the Theory:[/b][/u] The Precursor. The race that could travel between galaxies, the race that could accelerate evolution, the race theorized to be the ones to create the Flood and the first Engineered Intelligence (EI), and the race theorized to really be the ancestors of Humanity. In short, beings of near-myth and legend that even the Forerunner realized were superior to them. The race also theorized to be either missing, or long-dead. There have been a few theories (over the past half-year in particular) about what happened to the Precursor. Some, like myself, originally suggested that they were wiped out in cataclysm. Some said that they fled long ago, or left, and have not come back since, but passed on to the Forerunner the Mantle. Still others, like Wolverfrog, suggested that they "became" another race, like Humanity. Now, however, I suggest something new: I propose that the Precursor could have had three very distinct "offspring". Throughout this theory we will take a look at the three proposed offspring of the Precursor, explain how they were formed, and discuss the [i]Halo[/i] storyline from all the way back in Precursor times to the events of [i]Halo 3[/i] in 2553, all the while expanding upon the view of the three "child races" and explaining why galactic events happened as they did. [quote][/quote] [b][u]The Children of the Precursor:[/b][/u] [b]The Precursor and the Flood:[/b] Looking at my own theory in particular, there is a great degree of speculation that the Precursor could have been the origin of the Flood parasite. As you have undoubtedly read my theory as was suggested at the beginning of this thread, there is no real need to elaborate further; you already understand the reasoning behind it, although further speculation suggesting that "The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution" is indeed accurate will be provided as this thread progresses. My first suggestion in this theory is that the Flood are the Precursor's first "child" - as I will call the three races I am suggesting stemmed from the Precursor - a species created [i]by[/i] the Precursor in two very distinct ways. The first is by their theorized genetic manipulation and acceleration that created the abilities seen in the xenoparasite, very likely creating the form of the Flood as well. The second is the much more symbolic sacrifice of their own flesh - my theory suggests that the Flood were meant to be used as a data storage system, and to that end the Flood would have needed to feed on dead Precursor at the least, and their biomass would have been used to replenish the Gravemind and construct additional infection forms. With the first "child", it appears to actually symbolically represents a baby: the parents "create" it with genetics, and the mother nourishes it with sustenance from her own body. The child serves as a way to become "immortal", carrying on the feelings, thought processes, and opinions of the parents, and eventually rebels and leaves the home of its family. But the surprising resemblance to a cohesive family unit end with the first "Child". - - - [b]The Precursor and the Forerunner:[/b] Going back to "The Precursor, The Flood, and the Acceleration of Evolution", I draw your attention this time away from the main theory and to the sub-theory entitled "Similarities between [i]Halo[/i] and [i]The Lord of the Rings[/i]", located in [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=33340499&viewreplies=true&postRepeater1-p=1#33116290]this post[/url]. The sub-theory proposes, as the title suggests, that there are similarities between [i]Halo[/i] and [i]The Lord of the Rings[/i], when viewed in a certain context. While it is certainly interesting, it is not the important portion of the sub-theory; what is truly important is that it suggests that the Forerunner are, in fact, a remnant of the Precursor. While at first this might not seem monumental, and certainly does not seem to hold a great deal of weight, this will prove to be the truly revolutionary portion of this theory. As was suggested by the original sub-theory, the Forerunner would have either been exiled from the Precursor empire or would have left willingly, setting up a separate area of rule in the Milky Way. The Forerunner, additionally, are also the first "Child" of the original Precursor empire to not actually be "made" in a metaphorical way; they are more like a single-celled organism budding or dividing, a group separate from the original, but, at the same time, directly descended from the original and spawned thereof. The support for the Forerunner being the second "Child" of the Precursor will come later in this thread, but it is only critical to know, for now, that the Forerunner are considered to be the second "Child". - - - [b]The Precursor and Humanity:[/b] For the final "child" of the Precursor, we move onto Wolverfrog's theory. It alone provides some basic background of why this is possible and some overall reasoning for it, but there's a very large difference between his theory and my own: in Wolverfrog's theory, the Precursor originally existed in the Milky Way, and Earth was one of their worlds. From a high point where they were trans-sentient and one of the most advanced races known, they slowly decreased in power, mindset, and technology and became Humans, then were increased once again to a position of importance in the Human-Covenant war. In this theory, Humanity is the last vestige of the original Precursor empire. While the Flood were the children of the Precursor by creation and symbol, and the Forerunner were a bud of the Precursor that escaped the war with the Flood, I propose that Humanity is a portion of the Precursor empire, but not ones to leave during or immediately after the creation of the Flood. Rather, they are one of the (if not [i]the[/i]) last remnants of the Precursor who stayed behind with the Flood. At the end of the Precursor-Flood war, when the Flood decimated the Precursor beyond all recognition, the ancestors of Humanity survived. Perhaps because they were already in transit and escaped the attack, perhaps because they simply were able to escape the slaughter; the [i]how[/i] cannot be known, what is important is that they did. A few thousand, perhaps a hundred-thousand at most - regardless of number, they headed for the Milky Way (perhaps because they knew their cousins the Forerunner were there? Perhaps because they knew somehow that the Flood were going to come, and set out to warn their brethren?) and settled on Earth, slowly losing their evolutionary advantages, technology, and mindset as they become more and more separate from the Precursor empire they once belonged to. They change and change over the years, losing all of their advanced traits and becoming like a young race once again. A fitting fate for the final remnant of the arrogant Precursor. [Edited on 01.02.2010 1:04 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] General_Rafa First off, the Precursors/Humans did not warn the Forerunners of the Flood, as the Forerunners actually found the Flood themselves on a desolate moon at the edge of the galaxy.[/quote] Never said they did, merely said that they could've intended to when they first set out. I know that any such mission undertaken would've met in failure. [quote]One thing that puzzled me the most however is that if the Humans had the means to travel to the Milky Way galaxy, how could they all of sudden become primitive the moment they landed on Earth. (what I mean is during the time of the Precursors/Forerunners, Humanity was just a bunch of cavemen. XD)[/quote] In the Halo universe there's no confirmation that the fossil record on Earth for humans existed prior to 100,000 BCE, which is approximately the first sighting of a human on the planet. It's possible, therefore, that Precursor attempted to land on Earth due to an emergency or something of the like and crashed there, losing much of their technology and many of those that held memories of their past along with it. It's no stretch to assume that a group of people that were hurt, without their technology, and away from home would forget much of the skills they possessed, eventually... well, "evolving back down" isn't precisely the correct term--let's just say that they lost their memories of the past and returned to a primitive state by the time the Forerunner finally found them a few hundred years after that crash. That's only one example of a possible scenario that could have caused the Precursor to lose much of their technology and skills when arriving on Earth. [quote]One thing you need to know is that the Forerunners actually chose Humanity in my opinion. The Forerunners chose Humanity to be their descendants, the ones that survived the activation of the Halo Array and the ones who could access the Index. This revelation to the Prophet of Truth is the ultimate reason why the Human-Covenant war started. If such news reached the public of the Covenant Empire, their entire belief and Truth's power would be gone.[/quote] I know that very well, and I don't think that it has any bearing upon this theory. [quote]Also, I think the refereences to recognizing Humans as Forerunner were literal, such as 343 Guilty Spark's example of Master Chief. I don't think it was meant to hint anything about the Precursors.[/quote] Humans were not strictly Forerunner, however. This is fact. The Forerunner were shown surveying humanity in a webcomic, and the Forerunner Diadect and the Librarian talked about humans as separate entities. They're not one-in-the-same, and therefore must be separate but related. [quote]And the last thing was that some of your theory was based on a Precursor-Flood War. Well... It is a possible, but I find the concept very unlikely.[/quote] Noted. Thanks for your input.

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  • Interesting theory, I enjoyed reading it. I would like to point out some things though that I thought were kind of wrong with your thread. First off, the Precursors/Humans did not warn the Forerunners of the Flood, as the Forerunners actually found the Flood themselves on a desolate moon at the edge of the galaxy. One thing that puzzled me the most however is that if the Humans had the means to travel to the Milky Way galaxy, how could they all of sudden become primitive the moment they landed on Earth. (what I mean is during the time of the Precursors/Forerunners, Humanity was just a bunch of cavemen. XD) One thing you need to know is that the Forerunners actually chose Humanity in my opinion. The Forerunners chose Humanity to be their descendants, the ones that survived the activation of the Halo Array and the ones who could access the Index. This revelation to the Prophet of Truth is the ultimate reason why the Human-Covenant war started. If such news reached the public of the Covenant Empire, their entire belief and Truth's power would be gone. Also, I think the refereences to recognizing Humans as Forerunner were literal, such as 343 Guilty Spark's example of Master Chief. I don't think it was meant to hint anything about the Precursors. And the last thing was that some of your theory was based on a Precursor-Flood War. Well... It is a possible, but I find the concept very unlikely. The Precursors, Forerunners, and Humans are probably all related in chronological order, since they all look similar based on the descriptions given of their appearance. Great theory though.

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  • Wow dude that totaly sounds right.

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  • I've always enjoyed this sort of speculation, especially in universes as detailed yet open as the Haloverse. Anyway... While I don't 100% agree with the theory of The Flood being created by The Precursors, within the realm of that theory I will offer this: What if the original GraveMind didn't rebel out of a feeling of "being used," but instead out of necessity? If the Precursors had developed a means of individual "immortality" separate of The GraveMind, then they would never die or transfer their knowledge; thereby starving The GraveMind of its perceived food source. Or perhaps they instead created the next version of a "memory store" (perhaps by transferring their own consciousness or memories into something extra-physical, like a "fractal structure" in slipspace). Such advances would render the older and less efficient GraveMind construct obsolete. Out of the simple desire to survive, or perhaps because of being starved of new biomass and new memories, the first GraveMind rebelled and started absorbing Precursors by force. Once it had exhausted its primary food source, The Flood began to expand to other species and into other galaxies. Just a thought to explain why the first GraveMind may have turned on its creators....

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  • *whistles* Wow. . .that really does make sense. . .

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  • My god...

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  • Here is My theory on your Ideas. The precursors are human. They are flesh of our flesh and all that. The difference in us and them is that they don this "mantle" somehow and become more that what they can biologically be. It said they could advance the development or what not of species instantly... well maybe it wasn't some process... maybe it was a tech. It makes sense to me that If we cant physically do something lets build a tool. Well if we cant physically be super smart lets build a tool to do it. Now we see tech deteriorates ... even AI's ... so they wanted a way to become immortal .. make this AI living ... make the "child" a child in all aspects of the word. I would say that that is great idea... but not everyone would. IN the grave minds hasty attack some who prepared for such a thing( the development of a thinking stable jealous child AI ) were ready and set out to a remote place. someplace uninhabited ( or so they thought ) and they set up a defense against the thing they knew would come. It was smarter than them but they managed to become its jailor in death. Before there death they saw earth ... and on it they saw hope. Maybe a life boat of those who stayed and fought agains the gravemind sent thier children. ( not too far off from the whole superman story) These "children" grew up in thier own right free from the mantle. The Forerunners saw themselves... simple... but themselves. They left themselves a sword and shield and a manual on how to get back to the way things were, but also a warning. Maybe they wanted to jail the flood to get out of it all the things they couldn't take with them from the old world. Who knows... Just my 2cents worth [Edited on 10.01.2010 4:10 AM PDT]

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  • Amazing! Every time I read about the community's ideas about the universe, my mind exPLODeS, and this read was no exception! Thanks for taking the time to write up your ideas!

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TASK You and Staten should be locked in a room with a typewriter and forced to crank out Halo novels. I say that in a good way. [/quote] hehe so true!

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  • This is why Halo is so much better than CoD: The theories, the mystery.

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  • Wonderful read and a well thought out theory. It reminds me of an anime series that may not be well known, called Heroic Age. If you can stand anime, it might bring you to a few new theories and possible future events for the Halo universe. [Edited on 09.30.2010 10:56 PM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] halo04 Edit; Actually never mind, my logic is flawed. "I will reject my bias and make amends... My makers are my masters. I will bring them safely to the Ark" -Mendicant Bias Mendicant seems to be certain Humans are Forerunners though, note how he goes as far as calling us his makers. We wouldn't be considered his makers if we weren't directly connected to the forerunners.[/quote] However, we may have been [i]indirectly[/i] connected to the Forerunners instead. If the Forerunners, Flood, and humans are all 'children' of the Precursor, then we all share at least [i]something[/i] in common with each other. It could be something major, something minor, something HUGE, etc etc. However, Mendicant may have been in the mindset that we actually [i]were[/i] his makers due to the similarity. Just a theory, but it seems plausible. Also, I'm under the belief that the Precursor were Time Lords. xD

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  • Edit; Actually never mind, my logic is flawed. "I will reject my bias and make amends... My makers are my masters. I will bring them safely to the Ark" -Mendicant Bias Mendicant seems to be certain Humans are Forerunners though, note how he goes as far as calling us his makers. We wouldn't be considered his makers if we weren't directly connected to the forerunners. [Edited on 08.09.2010 3:47 AM PDT]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The Grudge So Humanity has an excuse for being retarded, but what about the Forerunners? According to this theory they had time to prepare for their exile and yet the Forerunners are back at tier 1. Also, if the Forerunners knew about the Flood why weren't they prepared when they made first contact on G 617g?[/quote] The Forerunner weren't stupid (in fact their creation of the Engineers seems like a hint to me that they were almost at Tier 0 again) they just had to fight their way back up to where the Precursor were. If we launch a colony-ship right now at another planet we're not going to suddenly create a place full of all of the technology and specializations that we currently have, it's going to be a place simply designed to keep people alive. It's a similar situation with the Forerunner. They get to the Milky Way and have to worry about survival before they can reclaim their technological high. I wouldn't be surprised if they had gone down to low Tier 2 or even high Tier 3 when they first came to the Milky Way. One of the basic principals of this theory is that, when a group splinters and leaves its place of origin without a tie back to that place of origin, knowledge, technology, and expertise inevitably dwindle. This happens (in this theory) to both the Forerunner and to the humans. It could even be argued that it happens to the Flood. As for the Forerunner not being prepared for the Flood on G 617, I can only say that it's a gray area that I have only one explanation for: they left before they got a clear idea of what the Flood really was. They packed their bags and left before the experiment went far enough for them to know what to look for, and when they finally found it thousands of years later they wrote it off, to their own doom.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Lord Snakie [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] kippa[/quote] You're assuming too much. We have our societal intelligents and stupids, and those in the middle. Our highly intelligent or even basically intelligent might have the foresight to think about education, but not our "stupids". I doubt that even the stupids of the Precursor would have passed the thought up, but would they have had any time to change anything? Remember, this theory essentially hinges on the assumption that the Precursor that became Humans were in a location to begin with where there were no Flood and they had the capability to leave from that location. If their civilization was devastated all at once and they were all that was left as far as they knew, what would they have done? They would have fled, if they had even the basic intelligence of the stupids of our society, and they would've done it before thinking about anything else. Assuming that generations came and past, there's no hands-on experience on whatever ship they were traveling on, and without the ability for several different beings to learn specialty fields they quickly would've lost their specialized intelligence. That's just common-sense. Now, assuming that they were in cryogenic storage, there's an entirely new factor that comes into play: malfunction. Something as simple as the ship unexpectedly crashing while they were in storage could resolve all of the issues we see here.[/quote] So Humanity has an excuse for being retarded, but what about the Forerunners? According to this theory they had time to prepare for their exile and yet the Forerunners are back at tier 1. Also, if the Forerunners knew about the Flood why weren't they prepared when they made first contact on G 617g? [Edited on 08.02.2010 12:45 AM PDT]

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  • LOL but it was Good

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  • Fully understanding what you are saying i believe that the forerunners had full knowledge of the humans being in the milky way. Also that they where precursors but had never made contact with them. Explaining the surprise they had of earth because they had never seen it. Though they knew of the humans existence but not of the devolution that occurred. Which confused them, so further study would have been necessary to Analise the complexions of devolution. Although this was cut short by the flood before research could be done. So to keep the precursor line alive so we could reclaim what they left and to eradicate the flood as they couldn't. So they planted technology allover the galaxy to assist us in the eradication of gravemind (mostly the halo rings) to allow the protection of the humans from invading forces an unseen enemy such as the covenant.

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  • The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose a revelation: the portal that was built on earth was used to save their lives by allowing humanity to travel to the ark and defeat the flood. what if the intended purpose is the way the portal transported the chief to that mysterious planet in the ending.

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  • Very interesting and expansive theories. A good read. So, if I'm reading this right, the Precursors were the cause of The Flood, The Forerunners, and Humanity, along with causing spiraling events that lead up to the Halo series? [Edited on 07.15.2010 6:03 PM PDT]

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  • So, the Precursors would be what we consider part of the [i]-blam!-[/i] genus?

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  • (musing)Could the forunners have gone to the milky way galaxy because of all of its unique sentient life. There are the shangheilli(sentient),Unggoy(sentient),King-yar(sentient),Yan-me(hive-mind sentient),san Shyuun(sentient),and the Jiralhanae(sentient). Or could it be that these were also remnants of the precursor, but simply were never found by the forerunners? hmm...

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  • Wow amazing theories...very interesting.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xDARKxL0RDx Perhaps, but wouldn't the Precursors be more interested in preserving life than being stubborn about not contacting a splinter group? Especially as the Forerunners were the next best thing for destroying the Flood. Maybe the Precursors [i]did[/i] contact them, and that was why they were so well prepared?[/quote] Then why wouldn't the Forerunner have known where to find humankind, and why did they speak of the Precursor so enigmatically in the Terminals? They would've known who we were and where we came from, and most likely where we were going.

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  • [quote]kippa[/quote] Perhaps, but wouldn't the Precursors be more interested in preserving life than being stubborn about not contacting a splinter group? Especially as the Forerunners were the next best thing for destroying the Flood. Maybe the Precursors [i]did[/i] contact them, and that was why they were so well prepared?

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  • I was thinking that perhaps there was some enimity or animosity between them. Perhaps a civil war type scenario lead the two different sects to drop communications.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] xDARKxL0RDx any thoughts?[/quote] You're traveling down a mental path that I traversed in the instant that I created this theory, but your thought process is unique so far in this thread (what I put in the OPs was just relevant data; you're drawing out my thought process, which is impressive). The only issues with your train of thought is that devolution would create [i]different[/i] DNA, not the same DNA. Different desirable traits would emerge, different evolutionary patterns, and different environmental stresses. No great changes, but changes nonetheless. We would cease being "strict" Precursor, just like the Forerunner would have. The only other issue I see with self-devolution is... why wouldn't the Precursor have informed the Forerunner before they did so? Like, "hey guys, we kinda released the Flood, we're going to devolve now to keep our knowledge safe, get ready for a -blam!-storm!"?

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