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#Halo

8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
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Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection. Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners. Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy? First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this - Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed. Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!" But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners. Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost. In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this. [quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote] Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe? I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners. However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity. I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors. In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact. [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote] Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors? It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion. [quote][/quote] [b]Update 1.2[/b] (I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.) Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system. Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld. Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it. Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners. Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had? I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction? My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo. And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor? Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond. [b]Update 2.0[/b] Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory. The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins. Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says: [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not. Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor. Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins. Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor. Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals. [b]In other words: [/b] - Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i] - Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event. - Halo is fired by Forerunners. - Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth. - Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way. - ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!" - Because they aren't. They're Precursor. [b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url] [Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]

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  • You know what? This'd make a nice little plot twist in that "Reclaimer" web comic. Might seem far-fetched, and might not fit perfectly with the story, but it could happen. ON TOPIC: That, my fellow forumgoer, is one awesome theory.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] God2845 The pulse from a Halo array destroys Precursor structures, how did the one in The Babysitter survive? I haven't seen it.[/quote] It wasn't Precursor, it was of human origin when we were about Tier 1.

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  • The pulse from a Halo array destroys Precursor structures, how did the one in The Babysitter survive? I haven't seen it.

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  • I believe -blam!- sapiens in Halo canon are the precursors. If not, then why the relevence?

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  • What about the archaeological record? Is the OP suggesting that Cro-Magnon or Neanderthals are the Precursors? Sound theory, but what we KNOW about Earth's history kind of shoots it down.

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  • Humanity belongs to neither Forerunner or Precursors. Only Chuck Norris.* (*Joking) Seriously, I also would have thought of Precursors being humanity since it was the Forerunners that found Humanity.(This peice of information came out of my butt. :P) The Forerunners probably didn't know Humans were Precursors either. I have no idea. I also feel like there is a connection between the Forerunners and the Rakata from Star Wars. Seems to fit, but then again may not match descriptions. [Edited on 02.05.2011 10:05 PM PST]

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  • o.O Very good theory, and I believe it, but I see one major plot-hole I see. If Earth is the Precursor homeworld, why is it not covered in ruins? If you look at any "homeworld" in any work of fiction, it is always covered in cities, and even in the real world we see this(East coast of the USA) Other than that fatal flaw, I think you may be on to something, but I offer this thought.... You've played ME2 I assume, in that the Protheians were converted to collectors through extensive DNA altering. So, what if Humanity is a genetically altered version of the Precursors? Good thread, I give it two thumbs up.

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  • well. if he was a reclaimer and it was forunner tech. then wouldnt that just make him forunner coming back to reclaim the halos. and about halo legends, that was just the crappy japanese animating. everything will come out looking asian

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  • free microsoft points at: XBOXLIVE-MSP.CO.NR AT THE END IT WILL ASK IF ANYONE REFERED YOU AND PLEASE USE MY NAME!

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  • HYPOTHESES! theories have been tested. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ajw34307 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Agustus [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Telec Maybe spark wasn't rampant. bear in mind that there are theories flying around about Chief and time travel. after H3 legendary ending, he gets chucked back in time, fights some more flood, then activates the rings for the first time. ^made up off the top of my head^[/quote] BS! I was one of the first to come up with that I believe. About how the forerunner defeated the flood, the answer is very simple. They didn't. If you read Halo 4, in plain sight, it may clarify somethings for you. If the flood is not of this galaxy then more might be coming. Also the forerunner didn't winningly let themselves be consumed. They enacted a type of cole protocol as well, to stop its advance. Just 1 planet with intact ships and other archives would mark the beginning of the downfall of the entire Precursor race. Also about Sparks, I think humanity could in-fact be forerunner as well. A few of them may have cross breed (naturally, or artificially it doesn't matter). Both species having a similar genetic make up would no doubt have made this easier. Also we know forerunner are indeed very human like in emotions and perhaps body shape. [/quote] No we don't. None of that has been confirmed or even clarified, it is only a theory. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog AJ is write, I don't even know why I edited that part about Halo in. Randomness?[/quote] lulz[/quote]

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  • actually its not delta halo B its 04 B

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  • Just read Cryptum. That solves everything.

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  • I agreed with this theory until I thought about it, The Precursors were the Precursors, The Forerunners were the Forerunners and we are the Reclaimers. Spark said Chief was a Forerunner, but think...he could have gone through all of the stages of rampancy several times before Chief found him. Before he told Chief about the Forerunners he asked him to upgrade to at least the mk 10 combat skin... so that means that Spark thought Chief was Diadact. But then again my theory is based off the words of an even more unstable AI [Mendicant Bias]. But then again Spark completely flipped out when Johnson tried to activate 04 B fixed [Edited on 02.17.2011 10:47 PM PST]

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  • it's pretty much known now that the forerunner killed the precursors, the last precursor that was alive in the forerunner-flood war pretty much told didact this... and he wouldn't have had much reason to lie..

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  • not read cryptum but i have an idea what if the last Precursor(captive is it) created the humans so that their DNA would be compatable with forerunner so the forerunners think "oh we have hit the jackpot" but infact humanity are the creations of the Precursors ready to be told what to do by captive

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  • no matter how advanced something is, one thing is certain: -blam!- breaks. END OF STORY

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mrhalo007 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dark Neptune Halo: Cryptum.[/quote]There are problems with it though. The terminals are the first thing wrong with the books because the time lines are conflicting with Didact. In the book, he is in the Cryptum for idk how many century's until he is awakened. On the other hand, the terminals say that the forerunners were at war with flood for about 300 years now and that would mean that Didact would be in hibernation when the war was going on. He was the one that commanded the [b][u]ENTIRE[/u][/b] Forerunner fleet![quote]So lets review. There's a guy named [url=http://www.halopedian.com/Didact]Didact[/url]. He is the leader of the Forerunner military. He activated the halo arrays and ended the forerunner flood war (so we thought). That is pretty much what is happening in the halo 3 terminals. Now for the Cryptum. It says that he was in the Cryptum for [b]ALL[/b] of the Forerunner Flood war, and wasn't even fighting. [u]HE NEVER FOUGHT IN THE BOOK![/u][/quote] And do I have to mention that [url=http://www.halopedian.com/032_Mendicant_Bias]Mendicant Bias[/url] was created by Didact? By the time Didact awakened in the Cryptum, Mendicant Bias has been on a mission for 43 years! That would mean that some one else created Mendicant Bias, instead of Didact, and this would contradict what is said by the terminals. (If you want to read the terminals you can see it [url=http://www.halopedian.com/Terminals]here[/url]). That is why I still debate whether the books should be considered canon. The Forerunners are a delicate issue that bungie has now -blam!- up. A good example is [url=http://www.halopedian.com/The_Fall_of_Reach]The Fall of Reach[/url] and [url=http://www.halopedian.com/Halo_reach]Halo: Reach.[/url] There are major canon issues with The Pillar of Autumn being on Reach during the battle.[/quote] Have you actually read Cryptum? It clearly states that Didact is in the cryptum for the first 300 years of the flood war and that he built mendicant bias before he entered the cryptum, as the forerunners were preparing in the aftermath of the human-forerunner war for the flood, as they were well aware that it would return.

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  • Its an interesting theory. I find its the most backed up and rawly interesting.

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  • Part 1 of the Forerunner Trilogy opens with a Forerunner-Human war... or something. Humans were once advanced and powerful... but lost the war, and were devolved. This actually led to the the discovery of the Flood, during one of the final battles Well, that is how I interpret the reviews and such... Have yet to read the book.

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  • These links may help: [url]http://www.halopedian.com/Human-Forerunner_War[/url] [url]http://www.halopedian.com/Precursor[/url]

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  • A well researched theory.

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  • Great theroy, you made a believer out of me.

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  • I was reading a little bit of Halo Cryptum at Barnes and Noble today. Gotta say it's pretty friggin' awesome. I want to buy it now, and I can't wait for the others. We'll see if any of this stuff shows up in the next Bungie game even if they said they're not making anymore Halo games....

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  • Ok i understand this is a pretty old topic but it seems theres still some confusion so alright(SPOILER ALERT!!!) if u plan on reading halo cryptum DO NOT read this!!!! ima try to sum up the whole precursor forerunner thing goin on here from the book cryptum. In the book theres this ancient captive that the didact talks to. in the end of the book you find out that hes the last precursor(SPOILER ALERT!!!) this is what he says to the didact "we meet again, young one. I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form, millions of years ago. I am the last of those your kind rose up against and ruthlessly destroyed. I am the last precursor. And our answer is at hand" it seems very unlikely that the masters of the universe were ruthlessly destroyed by a race they created but hey. I guess thats what happened haha. cant wait for the next book. sounds like this precursors gonna kick some ass! Back to the forerunners being humans and humans being precursors debate. The forerunners and the humans lived together in the same time era. Both were basically matched in technological advancements. Humans slightly less. The forerunners first found the humans trying to repopulate worlds in the forerunners galaxy. the humans claimed to be trying to run and reclaim worlds lost to this biological tragedy they created which they called the flood.(yea humans created the flood? who wouldve known right) Forerunners didnt believe them so they started war with the humans. Quick side note why are some people who supposedly read the book still sayin precursers made the flood? The book states that humans created them by injecting pherus(animals humans used as pets) with some dust. Over years they had no idea that the pherus were actually being genetically mutated into the flood until it pherus started infecting people. alright back to what i was sayin so now humans are in the middle of this war. tryin to contain the flood and also trying to fight off the forerunners. i think you can guess what happened next. the forerunners defeat them and "devolve them". Ima stop here cuz im gettin tired of typin all this. You should get the jist of it all. here are some descriptions Humans=just humans haha Forerunners are purple beings much like humans except for a few details. Theyre purple skinned with white hair and big (the didact is 6 meters tall). But the thing about the forerunners is they mutate to different classes of forerunners. Warrior servants being exceptionally bigger and brawnier and builder class forerunners being more "normal" i guess u can say Precursor: the precursor prisoner in the book is described as such, verbatim , from the book "the cell contained, in temporal suspension, a genuine monster: a large creature with an overall anatomy like a grossly misshapen human, though possessed of four upper limbs,two degenerate legs, and an almost indescribably ugly head-a head shaped remarkably like that of an ancient anthropod seeded long ago on a number of planet....Oval, faceted, slanted eyes bumped up from the front of its low, flat "face". And from the rear of the head, a long segmented tail descended the spine, ending in a wicked barb two meters in length." Alright haha thats my take on this whole topic. [Edited on 01.21.2011 3:57 PM PST]

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  • idk if u know but there is a new halo book out about the forerunners it might prove what ur theory i do agree with u about the babysitter episode and ur theory hope this helps u

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  • This Theory is proven wrong by Halo:Cryptun

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