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#Halo

8/29/2009 8:26:26 PM
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Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

All throughout the Halo trilogy, we have been led to believe there is a connection between the Forerunners and Humanity. For example, Halo can only be fired by a human, 343 Guilty Spark recognises humanity as "Reclaimers," naming the Covenant as 'Meddlers.' The terminals also imply a deep connection. Now, many have speculated that Forerunners are humans, yet more advanced. Some believe that Forerunners adopted us as their heirs. There are a fair few crazy theories out there, most, if not all, basically stating that humans are in some way descended from Forerunners. Now I approach you with a different outlook. What if humanity were not descended from the Forerunners, but what if they were, in fact, the fabled Precursors' last legacy? First, I'll dismiss the argument that 343 Guilty Spark says "You are Forerunner," to John-117 by saying this - Spark has always been confused, in Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who activated Halo the first time around. In the Bestarium, it makes mention that all of Spark's observations are 'Under Investigation', whereas Tangent's (Monitor of Installation 05) observations are all confirmed. Now I know what you're thinking: "Wolverfrog, you nutter! They can't be precursors, that's impossible!" But is it really? Let's start by taking a look at what the word 'Reclaimer' really means. To recover, to reclaim what was once yours. Now I don't see why the Forerunners would attribute humanity with such a term, it wouldn't make sense if humans are supposed to be the adopted race of the Forerunners. However, assuming hypothetically that humanity are in fact the last remnant of the Precursors, it would make sense. A safe thing to assume would be that Forerunner technology is based off Precursor technology, much in the same way that the Covenant base their technology off the Forerunners. Now if that is the case, then it would make sense that the Forerunners would name the humans 'Reclaimer', to inherit, and regain all that they lost. In the terminals, the Librarian, love of the Didact, refers to Earth as Eden, and a place of wonder. Iris, the Halo 3 ARG, also has a little to say on this. [quote][i]The anomalous world is in a perilous location beyond the line. The secrets it holds must be preserved, plans within plans within plans. [b]The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched. They may hold answers to our own mysteries[/b]. What irony that we discovered this treasure, only at the end of things. But what fortune that we still had time to save them. The thing we built on that world will vouchsafe their lives, but perhaps one day it will be used for its intended purpose. If the plan succeeds, and they are saved, it will be a good world. If the plan fails, and the adversary succeeds, it will remain an enigma forever with no one left to reclaim it. [/i][/quote] Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe? I believe that Earth is a Precursor world, perhaps their home world. At the very height of their power, the precursors were the dominant force throughout the universe. However, due to unknown reasons, they vanished, passing down a mantle to their chosen race to continue their legacy: the Forerunners. However, what if the Precursors had [i]not[/i] been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity. I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors. In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact. [quote]We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know. [/quote] Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of [i]them[/i]. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors? It's a long shot, but it's an option, one that I believe. I've probably missed out a lot, I shall scourer the terminals again and make necessary edits. Thanks for reading, please voice your opinion. [quote][/quote] [b]Update 1.2[/b] (I had this all neatly typed up, but it got deleted by a posting error. So forgive me if some of this update doesn't make sense, it's late at night and I'm kind of tired.) Reach is situated within the Epsilon Eridani system, a mere 10.5 lightyears from the Sol System, and it's closest neighbouring system. Now, let's go with the idea that Earth was in fact, the Precursor homeworld. Once they had achieved space exploration level, it's likely the first system they would have discovered is the Epsilon Eridani system. The Precursors would have also discovered Reach, and probably inhabited it. Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners. Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had? I'm not just thinking up random ideas as I go along though. What I find unlikely is that the Forerunners would have discovered Reach, but a few light years away from Earth, and have the time to construct caverns and house a ridiculously advanced crystal within, yet not discover Earth and humanity until a short time before activating Halo. Why would they waste time constructing such a complex when they were faced with extinction? My opinion is that the Precursors built it. Which is why, when Fred 104 touches the glyphs on the complex, he gets a 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling, as if he's seen them before. Genetic instincts perhaps, from humanity's Precursor ancestors? Simply becoming Reclaimers of the Forerunners wouldn't give humanity instinctive knowledge of how their technology works. And if the Forerunners based all their technology off of the Precursors relics they had discovered, it would explain why the Master Chief sub conciously could activate the various devices upon Halo. And, running along with this idea that Reach had been colonised by the Precursors, what if every UNSC Colony world which had mysterious 'Forerunner artefacts' were in fact, also Precursor? Perhaps humanity was merely following in their Precursors ancestors ancient footsteps, as they themselves first ventured into the Galactic beyond. [b]Update 2.0[/b] Oh Lord, this is all too perfect. The first Halo Legends episode, [i]The Babysitter[/i] was released, and it speaks volumes for this theory. The ODSTs have a mission alongside a Spartan to assassinate a Prophet at some unknown alien ruins. Cortez, the ODST squad leader, at some point in the mission briefing says: [quote]"The architecture is not Covenant design and it sure as hell wasn't built by humans. It pre-dates both sides."[/quote] As I was watching this I nodded along and thought, 'Forerunner'. That's what it pointed to right? Perhaps not. Later on when we actually see these ruins, they sure look confusing. It actually looks more like human ancient Japanese design than Forerunner. Naturally, everyone is complaining about it, saying it isn't Forerunner. And perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is Precursor. Now let's say, back in the day, the Precursors built some structures like that, with that design. They colonise the planet their human descendants (Remember the greater theory) walk upon hundreds of thousands of years later. And they build these ruins. Now what if, in the Haloverse, Japanese building designs were inspired by ancient Precursor blueprints that the ancient Japanese discovered? What if those ruins on the planet in [i]The Babysitter[/i] are in fact meant to look like they do? Not Forerunner ruins, but Precursor. Also, the statues inside the ruins show what seem to be animals usually found on Earth. And who do we theorise do originate from Earth? That's right, the Precursors. If the Forerunners had built the ruins, then surely they would have images of their Gods, not animals. [b]In other words: [/b] - Precursors colonise planet, build ruins we see in [i]The Babysitter.[/i] - Precursors then become humanity after catastrophic event. - Halo is fired by Forerunners. - Precursor remnants (humans) repopulate Earth. - Ancient Japanese discover incredibly old Precursor building blueprints, design their buildings in the same way. - ODST squad and Spartan in [i]The Babysitter[/i] discover these ancient ruins, Halo fans cry out "But they're not Forerunner!" - Because they aren't. They're Precursor. [b]Last minute input: [/b][url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18391672&postcount=243]Oh my God, Frankie just practically confirmed this section of the theory![/url] [Edited on 11.07.2009 3:54 PM PST]
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  • Thread is locked at OP's request.
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  • You've proven your argument very well. I can't think of anything to disprove. In turn, Cool. I'm so considering this as a fact.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] draim Perhaps you should read the book.[/quote] You need to realise that this theory is over a year old, pre-dating Cryptum being announced. I haven't read the book yet because I refuse to pay £14 for a game tie-in novel; I could get eight amazing books for that price. When it goes down in price or the paperback is released, I'll read it. And since this theory is debunked, I'll ask a moderator to lock it; I figured people would be intelligent enough to realise that the thread was older than Cryptum but I guess that was a fool's dream.[/quote] It was targeted towards the post above mine.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] draim Perhaps you should read the book.[/quote] You need to realise that this theory is over a year old, pre-dating Cryptum being announced. I haven't read the book yet because I refuse to pay £14 for a game tie-in novel; I could get eight amazing books for that price. When it goes down in price or the paperback is released, I'll read it. And since this theory is debunked, I'll ask a moderator to lock it; I figured people would be intelligent enough to realise that the thread was older than Cryptum but I guess that was a fool's dream.
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  • Perhaps you should read the book.
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  • I believe the 'sin you are referring to is that of the Forerunners actually (gasp) wiping out the Precursors. I do not remember exactly where I read that but I am completely positive. Probably somewhere online. Anyway, I think it was the Didact or whoever that was talking to the last known Precursor, while that last Precursor explains that the Forerunners will pay a price for their 'arrogance'. In Halo 3, the Terminals, the Gravemind mentions how it loves destroying things in days in what it takes the Forerunners eons to develop. Very powerful stuff. What I am saying is that perhaps the Flood IS the Precursors in a new form, or perhaps their own creation. Seeing as how it manipulated Mendicant Bias, you have to recognize its' intelligence. Since the Precursors were advanced enough to travel to other galaxies, and so are the Flood, maybe something happened or they are intertwined somehow. [Edited on 03.03.2011 2:27 AM PST]
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  • Food for thought. Look at these images. Then look at the titles. [url]http://halo.heavengames.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=halo_mmo_concept_art&page=4[/url] Amazing.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dragonzzilla First, Precursors were too massive to be Human. Second, Precursors supposedly 'crafted' the Forerunners Third, Precursors were so little in number after the Precursor-Forerunner War. Fourth, the last Precursor was possibly absorbed by the Flood, possibly turning into the first Gravemind in the Milky Way Galaxy. Fifth, all Precursor architecture was almost impossible to destroy. This was NOT the case for the Forerunners. They tested Halo on a single planet with Precursor buildings. These buildings were completely demolished by the test because Halo destroyed them at a Molecular level. Sixth, because of Fifth, when the Forerunners activated the Halo Array to purge the Galaxy of Flood, all Precursor architecture was destroyed. COMPLETELY. Seventh. The Precursors were considered to be the most Intelligent beings in the galaxy, surpassing even the Forerunners. And if Four actually happened, then it explains why the Gravemind knows so much. Each Gravemind is reborn with the memories of the past ones, thus containing the flow of knowledge a Gravemind can know. Eighth, if Humans WERE Forerunners - WHICH they're NOT, however they could've been 'crafted' like the Forerunners from the Precursors - the Gravemind would not only have his Precursor side rage, but his Flood side too - both hate the Forerunner line or any who the Forerunners left behind for. This would be a theory why Gravemind despises Humankind above the others.[/quote] counter arguments 1. source 2. the precursors could only accelerate development of life. 3. have you ever heard of the mantle? 4. gravemind may have absorbed most of them, but precursors wer intergalactic. 5. time comes with decay, nothing can last forever, regardless of make, enhancements or design. 6. the array only targets biologicals that have the biomass to be assimilated. 7. graveminds are connected telepathically, even if there is only one per a galaxy, the universe is enourmoud. think of the life it could of absorbed. the memories and possibilities could be endless.
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  • SPOILERS!!!! Well this theory was completely debunked by Cryptum. Oh, and the statue and architecture on that planet from Babysitter makes sense now. [Edited on 02.28.2011 9:38 AM PST]
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  • It all makes sense! Oh my god we know too much, THEY are coming...
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  • Awesome theory. Your probably right, but until Bungie (or 343) releases a Forerunner/Precursor game we will be left wondering.
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  • The reason people think humans descended from forerunners is because they have humanoid figures.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Wolverfrog Asplodes from wisdom or fail? I personally hope the former.[/quote]Would it hurt you too much if I said both? At the same time?
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  • First, Precursors were too massive to be Human. Second, Precursors supposedly 'crafted' the Forerunners Third, Precursors were so little in number after the Precursor-Forerunner War. Fourth, the last Precursor was possibly absorbed by the Flood, possibly turning into the first Gravemind in the Milky Way Galaxy. Fifth, all Precursor architecture was almost impossible to destroy. This was NOT the case for the Forerunners. They tested Halo on a single planet with Precursor buildings. These buildings were completely demolished by the test because Halo destroyed them at a Molecular level. Sixth, because of Fifth, when the Forerunners activated the Halo Array to purge the Galaxy of Flood, all Precursor architecture was destroyed. COMPLETELY. Seventh. The Precursors were considered to be the most Intelligent beings in the galaxy, surpassing even the Forerunners. And if Four actually happened, then it explains why the Gravemind knows so much. Each Gravemind is reborn with the memories of the past ones, thus containing the flow of knowledge a Gravemind can know. Eighth, if Humans WERE Forerunners - WHICH they're NOT, however they could've been 'crafted' like the Forerunners from the Precursors - the Gravemind would not only have his Precursor side rage, but his Flood side too - both hate the Forerunner line or any who the Forerunners left behind for. This would be a theory why Gravemind despises Humankind above the others. [Edited on 02.23.2011 12:05 PM PST]
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  • My God I Nearly Slept Reading This Story But Thanks For Giving Me This Idea! Regards Teadude0987 Tea At Your Service! ;>)
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  • If Humanity are Precursors, then you shall be obliterated just the same. I shall commandeer an army to destroy you all. I will make sure to amend the mistakes of my makers to prevent the Halos from being used by weaklings such as your race. [Edited on 02.20.2011 12:08 PM PST]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mrhalo007 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II Read Cryptum...[/quote]Cryptum made the bungie forums go to hell. it's sad now, the least to say.[/quote] Cryptum. Hmmm. Haven't read it yet. And can't find any forums.... Was it good?
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] hotshot revan II Read Cryptum...[/quote]Cryptum made the bungie forums go to hell. it's sad now, the least to say.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Master Penguin5 you sir, are a complete and utter genius.[/quote] Read Cryptum...
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  • you sir, are a complete and utter genius.
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  • If Humans were precurser, why didn't the Forerunners destroy them too? Or did they not know.. and what, they just blindly made them reclaimers?
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Daniel Vallance I have a little theory of my own haven't worked out all the bugs but i'll wing it anyway. Humans are refered to as 'child' as the forerunners now child actually means a younger person and bear in mind children can be adopted, i see it that humanity is a younger race who the forerunners chose to inherit there remanants after they were gone. Now consider that in halo legends the forerunners gathered all the species in the galaxy and reseeded them all, now if they knew of all of these species then they would have studied and reviewed there very nature. As a result would have seen humans to be of the right 'heart and soul' if you like as all the covenant races are prone to mindless aggression and are downright fanatical, also less intellgient maybe bar the prophets. But anyway so they would of seen humans as the right sucessors to use there technology peacefully once they were gone. As from the halo universe in general the human worlds all seem to be littered with forerunner relics which point to other human worlds, but somewhere down the line forerunners overlooked humanities greed or netherending hunger should that led to so many wars and thus slowed progress time after time and were not aware of forerunner technology 'officially' on first contact with the covenant. And thus there greater plan for humanity failed in the end, it was luck that 'saved' them. Well thats my idea like a say i sort of winged it meaning it might be buggy but the basic idea should be clear[/quote] Paragraphs are Your Friend. [quote][/quote] Since Crytum states the Precursors are Insectoid; so its impossible for Humanity to be the Precursors - all were wiped out when they had a war with Forerunners; save one... [Edited on 02.16.2011 9:06 PM PST]
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  • I have a little theory of my own haven't worked out all the bugs but i'll wing it anyway. Humans are refered to as 'child' as the forerunners now child actually means a younger person and bear in mind children can be adopted, i see it that humanity is a younger race who the forerunners chose to inherit there remanants after they were gone. Now consider that in halo legends the forerunners gathered all the species in the galaxy and reseeded them all, now if they knew of all of these species then they would have studied and reviewed there very nature. As a result would have seen humans to be of the right 'heart and soul' if you like as all the covenant races are prone to mindless aggression and are downright fanatical, also less intellgient maybe bar the prophets. But anyway so they would of seen humans as the right sucessors to use there technology peacefully once they were gone. As from the halo universe in general the human worlds all seem to be littered with forerunner relics which point to other human worlds, but somewhere down the line forerunners overlooked humanities greed or netherending hunger should that led to so many wars and thus slowed progress time after time and were not aware of forerunner technology 'officially' on first contact with the covenant. And thus there greater plan for humanity failed in the end, it was luck that 'saved' them. Well thats my idea like a say i sort of winged it meaning it might be buggy but the basic idea should be clear [Edited on 02.14.2011 7:02 PM PST]
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  • Man! Lot's of reading going on and the theories been made that most of them makes sense! This thread is [u] Awesome![/u]
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  • Its... Plausible. Im not sure if its true, because your building up from what I read on the fact spark was confused. But its highly likely, yes.
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  • You know what? This'd make a nice little plot twist in that "Reclaimer" web comic. Might seem far-fetched, and might not fit perfectly with the story, but it could happen. ON TOPIC: That, my fellow forumgoer, is one awesome theory.
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