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10/5/2015 10:59:07 PM
22

Sunbreaker and HoS misconceptions

Before we start, this is for those who have only heard the rage on the forums without the whole story. This is not for insulting others based on their opinion of the super. I am not making this post to say it is OP or not OP. Everyone should be able to come to their own conclusions. If any of the data I present is found to be false, I will happily update it if given the proof. [b]Armor and Survivability[/b]- First thing to note, the Sunbreaker subclass has a lower armor cap than the other two titan subclasses. This means it cannot attain the maximum amount of armor without the assistance of a chestpiece. [b]Single shot kills against a Titan using HoS[/b]- High Impact Snipers- Any sniper with an impact of 31 (1000 yard stare) or higher can kill in a single headshot if the Titan has not specced for full armor and has a chestpiece. If the Titan DOES have a full armor spec AND a chestpiece that grants armor, it takes a sniper with an impact of 34 (Eirene RR4) or higher to kill in a single headshot. Golden Gun- A single Golden gun shot can kill a HoS Titan if they do not have a maximum armor spec plus a chestpiece. If the titan has specced for full armor AND has a chestpiece, it will require two golden gun shots. This is in line with the other two Titan subclasses in that they can all tank a golden gun shot in the right circumstances during a super. Nighthawk Golden Gun- A Golden gun + the Celestial Nighthawk can one shot a HoS Titan with a full armor spec + chestpiece + the overshield gained by sunspots. I would love to see if illuminated blessings could change this. A high Impact shotgun- A shotgun with an impact of 64 (party Crasher)) or higher (Conspiracy theory) can headshot a HoS Titan with a full armor spec and chestpiece, Assuming that there is no damage drop off, and all pellets hit the head. *A High Impact Fusion Rifle- Using a fusion rifle with an impact of 95 (The Vacancy) or higher (Darkblade's spite) can kill a max Armor + chest piece HoS Titan. Special Note, for some reason this was hit or miss during testing, and our results were not consistent enough to be definitive. I would love assistance in further testing this. [b]Class Builds and perk questions[/b]- Does the Super charge slower than other classes?- As with all three new subclasses, the super charges notably slower than the year 1 subclasses. This is presumably to offset the higher power of the new subclass supers. Do the Hammers track?- With the proper spec, hammers can track when near an enemy. In practice this behaves more like a proximity detonation that you would find on a rocket than an actual enemy tracking projectile. Do all of the Sunbreaker's perks go towards the Super?- The simple answer is no, however it is important to note that in PvP only select builds are viewed as competitive. Almost all viable/competitive sunbreaker builds rely on the power of the HoS, usually paired with the forgemaster, cauterize, and explosive pyre specializations. This is in stark contrast to the other two Titan subclasses, which can remain competitive even without the use of their super. The only exception to this is the Sunbreaker simmer build. Simmer Build?- A sunbreaker with high discipline and strength can give up HoS and Cauterize (health on fire ability kill) and instead use Simmering flames (cuts melee and grenade cooldowns in half when super is full). This particular build makes good use of the fleet-fire specialization and can give you a grenade every 12.5 seconds with max discipline. Combined with skullfort or Armamentarium, this build can be deadly in the right hands. [b]Final thoughts[/b]- I hope that people will decide for themselves whether the HoS is unbalanced, rather than simply jumping on the Titan or Titan hate bandwagons. The HoS is definitely a devastating super that can turn the tide of a match when used and specced effectively.

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    I think only the luck in the chamber bullet from eirenne rr4 can 1 bullet headshot a hos ult titan. It has the same damage as 1000 yard stare from the numbers I see in trials. It appears that the eirennes stat bars are bugged.

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  • I have played as and against the HOS titan. The only thing they need to do is nerf the armor while in it. A titan shotguned pointblank with a melee attack should NOT SURVIVE.

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    • I'll say it before and I'll say it again. The only viable change I'd make to Hammer of Sol is changing it from third-person perspective to first-person perspective. Sunbreakers simply move too fast, have too much health, and their hammers have too much range and blast radius and one-hit kill potential AND to have them be able to quickly turn the camera, know where you are and throw a hammer without even facing you?! Nah son. First-person wouldn't solve all problems but it'd put more factors into Hammer of Sol like getting used to the hammers arc throw and have to only ever see what's directly in front of you like the other ranged super, GG and titans would have to be quicker at acquiring targets while turning in first-person all the while still having to aim their hammers more accurately. So no changes to the hammers. No changes to health. Just make Hammer of Sol first-person. Pretty reasonable for everyone no?

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      • How very sensible. *Applauds*

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      • Edited by Killlerschaf: 10/10/2015 11:28:15 AM
        I actually wonder about something completely different, since I haven't unlocked the perks yet: Standing in a sunspots created by a titan's melee, will or will not provide an overshield while not being in your super, given the fact that you use the overshield perk in the last tree? Same question for Sunspots created by your hammer, when your super runs out. Do you keep your overshield and will it refresh, if you go in and out of the AoE? Last question concerning the last perk of the last skill tree, which not only does provide an overshield, but also lowers the super drain while standing in a sun spot: How many hammers less, do you get when using Fire keeper and Scorched earth, compared to just using the first perk of the HoS? (Edge case question for PvE, because it will be nearly impossible to pull that of successfully in the PvP: standing in a sunspots created by your melee, while having fire keeper AND forgemaster... How many Hammers will you get then?) Because if all of this works as it seems that it should, then I don't see the point of running Cauterize for objective game modes anymore. I also completely failt to see the point of simmering flames to be honest, if you do not intend to troll the enemy team with a barrage of fusion grenades. Much better PvE perk. Keep super for BIG problems, and use grenades/melee every 15 seconds on something smaller. The Titan melee range is so bad, that you shouldn't put even one point in Str if we are honest. It's a Wtf Melee to use, when something seriously got too close in the Crucible, and chances are you're dead long before that melee ever registers. Which is why you should either use the higher dmg perk to ensure a kill in such situations or, if you really love to punch stuff that much, using Cauterize and the ability which severaly reduces the Melee CD, is probably the much better choice.

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        • Edited by AlbinoFre4k: 10/10/2015 5:44:49 AM
          I play the simmer build. Slower super by far but you can dump all stats into strength and discipline and with skull forts second melee charge be able to punch anyone out in two hits, resetting both melee charges.

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        • Very nice. Glad to see some intelligence on the forums

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        • Bump

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        • Finally i found someone educated enough to understand that it really isnt OP at all

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        • Thanks for this would appreciate video evidence of possible. I think lots of things require further testing in ttk before we start calling nerf. There isn't really much solid info on how effective the chest piece armor buff is

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          • Well if they do nerf it. I hope it doesn't effect pve.

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          • No nerf to Sunbreaker. Only because titans now, finally, have a viable pvp super. Titans have never been first choice for pvp, let titans have their moment... (blade dancers.)

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          • The golden gun one has been especially interesting because I've never tanked a single GG shot

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            • Great post! at least someone can go into depth about Sunbreaker and not say its all about the super!

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            • I worked very hard on this, and I hope that we can keep this bumped so the folks who need to see it CAN see it.

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            • Titan masta rayse [spoiler]i just had to[/spoiler]

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            • Different supers have different charge times. Shadowshot charges faster than gg for example.

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            • I do want to say I appreciate the effort you put into this. I'm glad you mentioned the simmer build, that build with Forgemaster, Melting point, Fleetfire, Simmering Flames, and Incendiary Grenades is my go to with this class, as I like having something to do with the class aside from supering and I love what you can do with this perks. Also, when fighting a Sunbreaker's Hammer of Sol, do your best to stay 20 meters in the air at all times, avoiding any nearby walls or ceilings. It is really hard to for the Hammer of Sol to hit moving targets that are in the air, especially when there are no surfaces nearby to take advantage of splash damage.

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              • Actually only max armor is needed to survive both GG and snipers with 31 impact or less. the chest piece lets you live from a shotgun headshot but just barely. And I think it makes you require another swing of the sword.

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                • Self bump

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                  • This is great!

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                  • Noish.

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