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#Halo

8/18/2008 10:37:50 PM
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Blood Gulch =/= Valhalla and =/= Standoff.

As a person who loves Blood Gulch, I'm not a fan of people incorrectly saying Valhalla or even Standoff replaces it. So I hope to end this argument with a very long post. WARNING! Not for those with short attention spans! _____________________________________________________________ Valhalla completely defies the themes of Blood Gulch, which automatically means it isn't the same thing. No matter how many things [i] look[/i] similar (i.e. the pelican on Valhalla as a cave or the river on Valhalla), a map can't replace another if the game play is nothing like it. Some people may not have noticed, but Valhalla has a hill in the middle of it. This blocks the views of one base to most of the other. In Blood Gulch, base to base snipers battles weren't exactly rare. This is because it was a level plain, where a sniper could shoot anyone almost anywhere on the map. Due to the hill, snipers are not the most dominant force on Valhalla usually. One theme of Blood Gulch destroyed. The next theme of Blood Gulch is vehicles. Valhalla has vehicles. So does Blood Gulch. I don't think Valhalla has any tanks though. Or ghosts [i]normally[/i]. Odd for a remake, huh? Not to have any of the things that actually made the map awesome. To vehicles again...there is also, again, the hill. The hill means that vehicular battles will never happen on a regular basis in MM. On Blood Gulch you just had plain open ground. Drive in circles hoping your gunner can outdo theirs, while dodging the sniper. The hill makes it so Warthogs rarely encounter one another. Mancannons are on Valhalla, teleporters in Blood Gulch. I know, 'they're the same thing practically!' Wrong sir! On this map, they are not. A mancannon on Blood Gulch would be devastating to the map, for any decent sniper could have a field day. Blood Gulch had teleporters due to the risk of going to the middle of the map with snipers on either side. This, again, is defeated by Valhalla's large hill. On Valhalla you can just mancannon to the middle of the map in relative safety, or even walk! This is, yet again, due to the large hill in the middle. On Blood Gulch, if you went near the middle of the map on foot, a sniper would likely pick you off. You can go an entire game easily on Valhalla without Vehicles or Snipers. If you tried that on Blood Gulch, you'd get laughed at and killed many times. Standoff has many of the same issues. Where to begin? Standoff ishow shall I put this [b]small[/b]. Blood Gulch was huge, and Standoff is not. The largeness of Blood Gulch is one of its best features. Both maps have a base. Oh, that must mean the maps the same! Standoff replaces Blood Gulch, just like Valhalla does (by the way, if both maps replace Blood Gulch, then you'd better start explaining how Standoff is the same as Valhalla), huh? Right Standoff has a single Warthog in front of each base. Blood Gulch has a warthog by each base as well. Blood Gulch also had a banshee, a ghost, and tank. Standoff also hasoh, never mind. Standoff has mongooses. I have little doubt that if Blood Gulch is ever going to be remade in Halo 3, that mongooses would be included. So there you go. Still, one theme of Blood Gulch is destroyed. Blood Gulch has tiny bumps that bounce you up and down while you drive in your hog. Standoff has rocks that you can crash into. Very similar, I know. Really though, the rocks also ruin the Blood Gulch experience. I don't even need to explain that part I don't think. To me, it is far too obvious. Standoff lacks the one weapon Blood Gulch centered aroundthe sniper. Standoff does not have a sniper, and I think it was a very good move by Bungie not to include it. In a map like Standoff, the sniper would dominate, and I mean more than in Blood Gulch. In blood gulch, you have a tank. Not only can you pick up chicks in a tank, but you can kill a sniper. Yay multi tasking! At last, some smaller points: 1. Valhalla was a spiritual successor. It was not supposed to be Blood Gulch. It was inspired by Blood Gulch. 2. There is a difference between thinking a map is good, and thinking it is not like another map. Standoff happens to be my current favorite Halo 3 map. Valhalla is a fun map as well, though I wouldn't say it was one of my favorites. 3. When Standoff was first shown, I believe the words Bungie used were 'it has a Blood Gulch feel'. Something to that effect... it doesn't mean it can replace Blood Gulch at all! All it means is that it has the same [i]feel [/i] as Blood Gulch. Bungie certainly got that right; it does remind me of it. Maybe that's why I love the map so much. Or it could be that Multi- Flag on Standoff with AR starts is epic fun! 4. Themes can be argued. Maybe some of you don't think the themes of Blood Gulch are snipers and/or vehicles. However, I firmly believe that these are the themes, and I believe most people would agree with me, whether they think Valhalla/Standoff can replace Blood Gulch or not. 5. I am well aware of the 'Bring Back Blood Gulch' group. I support the cause, but I just don't want to join more groups. Sorry fellas, but my support will be from the outside. Good group theme though, it's a good thing. There you have it, the reasons Valhalla and Standoff do not equal Blood Gulch. Please bring fire extinguishers for the flames when you enter the 'reply' screen, if you do reply. Thanks for reading. [quote] Quote due to it looking nicer than a 'edit' symbol. I've been desperately trying to avoided editing this post, because I feel the edit thing makes such a lovely post look sloppy. It couldn't be helped though. Turns out that with the New New Hawtness, it was impossible to reply to this thread due to the title I had. So I had to change the title. Apologies to anybody who tried- you should now have no trouble.[/quote] [Edited on 03.26.2009 6:23 PM PDT]
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  • Valhalla and Standoff = -blam!- maps Bloodgulch/Coagulation = One of the best maps ever created [Edited on 01.22.2010 7:14 PM PST]
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  • I say Bungie puts blood gulch as either a new map in halo 3 "named Blood Gulch" not Valhalla or include it in the new Halo: Reach! I loved Blood Gulch. 1. its a simple map (how hard could it be to remake that for halo 3...pretty easy i say...) 2. how many halo fans continuously played that map. if u didnt play that map, your weren't playing halo. Bungie, i am begging your include Blood Gulch into Halo 3 or Halo: Reach. please, please, please.
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  • Valhalla is so easy to win if you control the hill. Blood gulch really had no real choke points or areas to control. Also, blood gulch is A LOT wider then valhalla.
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  • your 100% right bg was easaly the best halo map ever in any halo game in halo wars it is included
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  • in one way the constently getting sniped on bg was annoying but the map is grate for cft or forge you could do a lot with that map
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  • I miss the long nights spent playing with friends on LANS or in BTB during the halcyon days of Halo 1 and Halo 2. Blood Gulch and Coagulation...the two maps that made the multiplayer experience for us. Sadly, we were given no map with a gameplay feel strikingly similar to these two within Halo 3. Here's to hoping we attain something like it in Reach. Standoff and Valhalla are most certainly not Blood Gulch or Coagulation. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] burritosenior (it's two boxes in a bigger box with a long piece of cardboard leaning against the side of the big box with little rocks Susie collected scattered along one of the sides! What's not to love?!?)[/quote]This quote made me smile. I really miss that canyon.
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  • I just want a giant map in Reach to forge on (like the sky bubble on sandbox, but with a floor).
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  • I must say, Redux... well put. I mean, I completely disagree because I personally think that it isn't a tired design (it's two boxes in a bigger box with a long piece of cardboard leaning against the side of the big box with little rocks Susie collected scattered along one of the sides! What's not to love?!?) , but still well put.
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  • IMO, neither Valhalla nor Standoff play exactly like BG/Coag, and that's a good thing. IMO, Valhalla took the base design of BG/Coag and streamlined it and made it more consistent. I personally don't care if I ever see BG/Coag again. I feel like Bungie's map making talent has come a long way since Halo: CE, and would much prefer they continue to develop that talent with original maps, not copies or iterations of a tired (IMO) design. Looking back, I enjoyed BG/Coag a lot in CE and Halo 2, but the core design is just completely outdated, IMO. It's a horribly inefficient use of space and lacks certain elements of dynamics that, IMO, make a great map. For example, there isn't much in the way of a vertical element. So more to the thread, no, BG =/= Valhalla or Standoff. The gameplay elements are similar, but these maps have taken the same base design and developed it to be more varied and dynamic. Perhaps it's the absence of variation and dynamics that people loved about. Perhaps it was the map's inconsistencies. All I know is I find both Valhalla and Standoff to be much more enjoyable, dynamic, and balanced for core Halo play. Now, if one wanted to play a game that was strictly vehicular combat, sure, BG/Coag might be more appropriate BECAUSE of the lack of dynamics and variation. But I don't see much use for maps like that in a game that actually has a core method of play in a very large community of online gamers.
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  • burritosenior DO you have no life that you sit on your computer all day wishing Halo was real? Ever heard of an escort service, sounds like you need one. Sad lonely piece of retarded monkey c r a p
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  • I agree! I want Coagulation/Blood Gulch back :'(
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NOT snipe legacy [/quote] Those statements, while half of them are false, only prove my point more. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Dizypher Just because it does not look exactly like COA/BG does not mean it's not a re-make.[/quote] No- but because it doesn't look like [i]or[/i] play anything like Blood Gulch along with Bungie already saying Valhalla was an original map only inspired by Blood Gulch makes it not a remake.[quote] Last Resort was modified heavily, yet people are not complaining about that?[/quote] Last Resort is actually a remake though. [quote] These threads are pointless.[/quote] Your reply is pointless if this is all you can contribute, sir.[quote] People are agueing that it looks the same, then you are going to prove them wrong, either way Blood Gulch/Coag WILL never return, it's been confirmed many times.[/quote] I have not once asked for Blood Gulch to return in this thread. And I was not arguing primarily over looks. I talked about gameplay. [Edited on 12.08.2009 10:02 AM PST]
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  • Just because it does not look exactly like COA/BG does not mean it's not a re-make. Last Resort was modified heavily, yet people are not complaining about that? These threads are pointless. People are agueing that it looks the same, then you are going to prove them wrong, either way Blood Gulch/Coag WILL never return, it's been confirmed many times.
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  • here's some differences: Blood Gulch was all about vehicle control, and hand to hand combat was almost non existant, making the skill gap NOTHING. 2. Valhalla has a hill in the middle, and requires map control, not camping like BG/coag did. 3. Standoff Is simular to BG/coag, and everyone hates it. Why? because it requires coordination, and weapon/map control, something 90% of the players that post on this site lack.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ThunderCheeze Wanna know why Vahalla and Standoff don't equal Blood Gulch? [i]Because they're GOOD maps[/i] BG was terrible gameplay wise. It was flat, unattractive, repetitive, and slow.[/quote] That's an opinion and that's irrelevant anyways. No Lizard I am not 'kidding' you. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] pirataneitor this is a god damn discussion about map of past version of halo maps and remakes god stop is like god damn kids fighting for a candy so lol and noob [/quote] I have no idea what you are trying to say. Also guys please keep in mind, again: The point of this thread was not to get Blood Gulch into Halo 3. It was to explain the differences between it and existing maps.
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Iggyhopper [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RighteousTyrant So either we get Blood Gulch in Reach, or we riot. Who's with me?![/quote]I am.[/quote]Riot it is.
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  • this is a god damn discussion about map of past version of halo maps and remakes god stop is like god damn kids fighting for a candy so lol and noob
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] burritosenior Multi-Flag on Standoff with AR starts is epic fun![/quote] For once I was agreeing with most of your comments but I saw this and I wanted to cry. You've got to be kidding me. [Edited on 11.12.2009 4:25 PM PST]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ThunderCheeze Wanna know why Vahalla and Standoff don't equal Blood Gulch? [i]Because they're GOOD maps[/i] BG was terrible gameplay wise. It was flat, unattractive, repetitive, and slow.[/quote] I agree, actually. It was really only fun for customs with friends, and I'm sure forge would make it even more so. I would much, much rather have HEADLONG.
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  • Wanna know why Vahalla and Standoff don't equal Blood Gulch? [i]Because they're GOOD maps[/i] BG was terrible gameplay wise. It was flat, unattractive, repetitive, and slow.
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  • I <3 Blood Gultch Archive you shall not...
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] yugor1000 Want a very simple reason why Blood Gulch/Coag wouldn't work in Halo 3? Vehicles. Or more specifically, anti-vehicle weapons. The Rocket Launcher no longer homes in. This makes it useless against vehicles on a map as large and open as BG/Coag is. The Spartan Laser, for that very same reason, would completely shut down the vehicluar combat for one team or another, leaving them to be picked off by the snipers. The only viable anti-vehicle weapon is the Missle Pod, but makes you too slow and can't easily be brought to bear against the enemy. So we wind up with a situation where vehicles will decimate [i]everything[/i], or vehicles will be useless and it will simple be a game of "Duck Hunt" for the snipers as players try to run across the map.[/quote] A missile pod and then 2 or 3 rocks for sniper cover.
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  • Valhalla Sucks, prolly my least favorite map. I wish there was a remake of Blood Gulch/Coagulation! [Edited on 11.07.2009 4:40 PM PST]
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  • Want a very simple reason why Blood Gulch/Coag wouldn't work in Halo 3? Vehicles. Or more specifically, anti-vehicle weapons. The Rocket Launcher no longer homes in. This makes it useless against vehicles on a map as large and open as BG/Coag is. The Spartan Laser, for that very same reason, would completely shut down the vehicluar combat for one team or another, leaving them to be picked off by the snipers. The only viable anti-vehicle weapon is the Missle Pod, but makes you too slow and can't easily be brought to bear against the enemy. So we wind up with a situation where vehicles will decimate [i]everything[/i], or vehicles will be useless and it will simple be a game of "Duck Hunt" for the snipers as players try to run across the map.
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  • Most people don't want it for a real map just to fool around in custom games and because halo and halo 2 had it so bungie should just make the remake for halo 3 if you get what i mean [Edited on 11.07.2009 4:30 PM PST]
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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RighteousTyrant So either we get Blood Gulch in Reach, or we riot. Who's with me?![/quote]I am.
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