[quote]It is at some points draining. [/quote] I'll try and keep it short and wrap up with my opinions now. [quote] It is just that I do not think that it is as common. [/quote] It only appears less common, for example men are much less likely to speak up about things like domestic abuse and just try to deal with it, while women tend to be more... let's say, vocal. (this issue applies to our p0rn issue too). It's a glitch in the system, a hidden statistic so to speak. [quote]Just because they know that it is happening, does not make it any more correct. I hate to use an analogy (I am told by those which know me that I use them far too much...) but say someone posted a video of them killing some one else, just because the person who posted it enjoys it, and knows that people who are watching it will objectify the person being killed, does not make it any more acceptable. I understand the difference between my example and that of amateur p0rn, but I think that the same basic logic applies. [/quote] Analogies are all well and good, but once again you could have used a better example; murder is illegal, most things in adult film are not. (Although I am very sure there is an underground market for snuff.) I understand your point, but moral and legal are seperate issues. Ach, I'm getting very tired, sorry this post in particular is less well argued than the rest. [quote]Not really, they are compliments, you say them to make the person feel better about themselves, which is totally different to objectifying women. You are still respecting the individual, and you are simply stating something about their appearance, not using their appearance for your own pleasure, turning them into an object for your use, nothing more. [/quote] True, but it could be just as likely a comment intended to be used to get into someone's pants, as it is a heartfelt compliment. [quote]On one level I say that we should have freedom, but say I wanted to use my body to become a child rapist, would you still allow it? [/quote] I know it's wrong, I can't help but laugh a bit at this one ^^ Right, once again, it's legal vs illegal here. When I said people had the freedom to do what they wish with their bodies I did intend (and should have stated) within the boundries of the law. But mutual consent should always, always, 100% of the time dictate whether intercourse happens or not. [quote]Interesting point. But you are not treating the scientist himself as an object, just his published work, which differs, because the work [b]is[/b] an object, and is not an individual. [/quote] It could be argued that the p0rn video that is created at the end of filming is the equivilent of the scientist's published works. I do understand both outcomes have radically different values and uses, and I would regard the intellectual work more highly. Either way, this is the finished product by either means of production, and is thus equal in a capitolist's eyes (unfortunately) [quote] Again, p0rn stars are individuals, they are encouraging these more extreme types of sex. You can argue that they never mean it to be replicated, but many people wish that it could be. The difference between not actually being live on Pandora and be an Avatar and p0rn in this case, is that often although people want both, they blame their partner if they don't get this fantasy intercourse. [/quote] First I would like to think that any relationship should have the consent and understanding that, if one half did not want to try a particular secksual act, then the half that is asking would understand because they care for their partner. Now, I think it was argued before by somebody else, but trends are not set by the p0rn industry, but rather the p0rn industry caters to it's consumer's demands. Capitalism at its finest again. [quote] The Call of Duty point [/quote] Okay fair point and I agree, but the "Hollywood" p0rn is often unrealistic, using false... members, siemen, that sort of thing. [quote]No problem :) I am just thankful someone invented the enter button... [/quote] HAH! I hope that's not a jab at me Sir... (I'm going to assume Sir unless told otherwise) [quote] -blam!-ion is a physical act, and watching something to stimulate it is also just as 'real', the betrayal although may not quite be equal, it close in the minds of many partners. [/quote] Fair enough, I think we can both agree on this one actually. [quote] Sure, but in many cases that isn't why the partner is upset about someone cheating. [/quote] Of course the actual betrayal is why someone would firstly and foremostly be upset, but STD transmission is probably a more significant factor than you assume, for example to intentionally transmit AIDs is illegal for reasons such as this, and is a very real potential consequence. [quote]I agree, but that is because I think that it is more in the open, I have talked to people who were totally distraught after finding downloaded p0rn on their boyfriends computer.[/quote] Yes, but these are personal, individual, unique cases, it'd be more reliable if the evidence was studied in a wider population to see trends and the like. Although I see where you are coming from. [quote]Totally agree. [/quote] Glad you do. More people should be aware this is a serious issue. [quote] Some times, but it is surprising how many people re-marry even after being unfaithful (sure it may break up again, but that does not change that fact that they were desirable)[/quote] Very valid point. Although again, I'd like to think that something like viewing p0rn could be easily solved so a relationship is put back on track (although I firmly believe there is no such thing as a "perfect" relationship). Also I'm sure you agree that p0rn is not the major, or even most significant cause of divorce. [quote]P0rn can be seen as an act of betrayal, there is a physical act of -blam!-ion while watching p0rn. Cheating (if accepted) would cause no family problems, some stars are unfaithful all the time and it doesn't effect them, but they are a tiny minority, and IMO there is no point in them being together.[/quote] Stars as in famous people you mean? I hope you don't see them as a valid representation of the population at large. Even if cheating was accepted I believe it would cause family problems - for example, children would have difficulties identifying who their parental role models are at a young age, which could lead to difficulties in behaviour and discipline, leading to, well, you can guess I'm sure, Crime and the like. [quote] The family can be a victim, if the husband is tired of his wife, and wont give up his satisfaction which he gets from p0rn.[.quote] If a husband is tired of his wife that will not be solved by giving up p0rn, whether he is obsessed with it or not. That is a clear communication issue, potentially domestic abuse even. [quote]But really, I do enjoy arguing/debating with others, because even if I don't change the others mind, it secures in my own mind, my personal beliefs. I thank you for taking the time to answer and ask questions, prying deeper into my own mind and thought process. [/quote] I agree. Single minded-ness is what caused such things as the Crusades, and fuels the need for rebellion. 's tricky business, yo. I've enjoyed this even if I am shattered by now. People need to have an understanding of other cultures and opinions. This is very evident in youtube comments, and Call of Duty.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JFKES [i]Snip![/i][/quote]This is why I try and limit the eye candy as much as possible.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JFKES [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SweetTRIX [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JFKES [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Robobeast How do you propose a man exercises his -blam!-ity when his partner isn't as interested anymore? I believe you do not understand some of the realities of relationships and -blam!-ity. Believe me when I say that after two children women are not very interested in sex. At the moment your advice is simply for men to ignore it - nice one.[/quote]Then that is the partners problem. She is seeing intercourse as more of a one way thing for her. She should continue having intercourse with you, because she loves you, in the same way I guess you will help her tidy the house. You both have to do things which you don't really want yourself, in order to make the other happy. Of course people have needs, but resorting to other forms of stimulation is not the answer, they should instead asses the cause. I really do suggest you talk to your partner about it and explain how you feel. [i]- JFKES[/i][/quote] Therin lies the issue though, no matter how much the two of you talk about it there is the chance that she is just done with frequent sex, and nothing you say may be able to sway her. So what do you suggest? "Dealing" with it and growing bitter at your partner over such a thing? Surely you wouldn't suggest ending a relationship over one's prudish behavior. So what's the option?[/quote]Let her know how much it means to you. Work out a system where if you do something for her to be nice to her, then she will have intercourse with you in order to love you. If this still isn't happening then I would suggest talking to a marriage councilor and working out how to discover a plan of action.[/quote] All that may work for some, but it is not a blanket solution, at least not a favorable one for all involved. [quote]I understand why people would resort to p0rn or have affairs when something like this happens, but I do not think that is should be the answer.[/quote] I will never condone cheating in a relationship, married or otherwise. But in situations where your partner is not pleasing your needs (after a reasonable fashion), I see no reason why pr0n shouldn't be a viable option. [quote]If she doesn't listen to reason, in the end, you should give up intercourse, because you love her. A relationship should not rest only in intercourse, and if you leave her because of it (or lack of it) then you are showing that you rate your own -blam!- pleasures above your (non-physical) relationship. [i]- JFKES[/i][/quote] And what about her considerations for your needs? -blam!- relations are a large part of a healthy relationship, and if one half of the couple (either one) decides to stop taking care of the other, then there needs to be some form of exception. Whether that be pr0n or another form of compromise, expecting the "needy" one to just grin and bear it is just as selfish as the attitude you point out.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vgnut117 Men are always going to objectify women. It's what we do. Men want to watch women in adult videos because of the urge we have to spread our seed among as many females as humanly possible before we drop dead. No one on this planet has any right telling me I can't watch adult videos nor do they have any right telling me it's morally unacceptable. If a woman has a problem with me doing that (why I would be mentioning it to her I don't know) or anything else in my life then she can -blam!- right off. [/quote]Thats fine, as longs as you are happy with a woman who can go off with any man she wants and watch male (-blam!-) p0rn when ever she wants, or else it is just a total double standard. By watching p0rn you are imagining you are having intercourse with some one who is not your partner. Are you seriously telling me that if the person you were watching was actually physically in front of you, you wouldn't start doing them? Edit: Also just because we have been objectifying women for ages doesn't make it right, we have been killing one another for little to know reason, that does not make it right. Edit 2: I am getting tired, I will be heading to bed soon (I live in the UK) so I might only be able to answer a few more posts. [i]- JFKES[/i] [Edited on 02.10.2011 2:30 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Vgnut117 Men are always going to objectify women. It's what we do. Men want to watch women in adult videos because of the urge we have to spread our seed among as many females as humanly possible before we drop dead.[/quote] I'm a man and I don't objectify women. Bam!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big Perversion isn't mainstream, it's [i]ingrained[/i] in your head. People have been "perverted" for as long as they've been having sex. And that's about as long as we've existed.[/quote] Well, in the way the society uses perversion, it means: [quote]the action of perverting something (turning it to a wrong use); "it was a perversion of justice"[/quote] Thanks, internet! Anyway, if p0rn (or self-stimulation) is a wrong use, then there must be a right way to deal with sex. Our goal is to find that "right way" not just to do something cuz it "feels good" now. What do you think?

Men are always going to objectify women. It's what we do. Men want to watch women in adult videos because of the urge we have to spread our seed among as many females as humanly possible before we drop dead. No one on this planet has any right telling me I can't watch adult videos nor do they have any right telling me it's morally unacceptable. If a woman has a problem with me doing that (why I would be mentioning it to her I don't know) or anything else in my life then she can -blam!- right off.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SeriousCat Matrix movies boost my expectations for reality... I still live a normal day to day life.[/quote]That is because it is an object being treated as a fake reality. In p0rn it is a individual being treated as a fake reality. The difference is in the individual, and thanks to the intercourse nature of the videos. [i]- JFKES[/i]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big Religious relies on faith, not logic.[/quote] Hey, just so you know: Faith = Reason. Faith is a specialized kind of reason that deals with the extra-natural realm. So, please stop smearing us as idiots for having "faith." Thanks, R0b3rt R

Matrix movies boost my expectations for reality... I still live a normal day to day life.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Zon The Great [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big Why would a woman want a man to give up fapping and adult videos?[/quote] Religious and/or moral reasons [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big Better question, why would a man want a woman who would want him to give up those things?[/quote] You're saying that you wouldn't want any girl no matter how beautiful or perfect they are, to tell you to give up -blam!-?[/quote]Religious relies on faith, not logic. That's not really applicable.[/quote] I really could argue that with you, but I'd get b& [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big And no, I wouldn't want a woman that made me change the way I was in that respect, just as she wouldn't want me to make her change the way she was for me. It's a little thing called "compatibility." If she was so perfect for me, she wouldn't expect that from me.[/quote] Couples aren't going to agree on everything bro, no matter what. It's called a "compromise" In addition, this breaks up couples already in marriages. It's possible this issue has never come up before

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SweetTRIX [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JFKES [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Robobeast How do you propose a man exercises his -blam!-ity when his partner isn't as interested anymore? I believe you do not understand some of the realities of relationships and -blam!-ity. Believe me when I say that after two children women are not very interested in sex. At the moment your advice is simply for men to ignore it - nice one.[/quote]Then that is the partners problem. She is seeing intercourse as more of a one way thing for her. She should continue having intercourse with you, because she loves you, in the same way I guess you will help her tidy the house. You both have to do things which you don't really want yourself, in order to make the other happy. Of course people have needs, but resorting to other forms of stimulation is not the answer, they should instead asses the cause. I really do suggest you talk to your partner about it and explain how you feel. [i]- JFKES[/i][/quote] Therin lies the issue though, no matter how much the two of you talk about it there is the chance that she is just done with frequent sex, and nothing you say may be able to sway her. So what do you suggest? "Dealing" with it and growing bitter at your partner over such a thing? Surely you wouldn't suggest ending a relationship over one's prudish behavior. So what's the option?[/quote]Let her know how much it means to you. Work out a system where if you do something for her to be nice to her, then she will have intercourse with you in order to love you. If this still isn't happening then I would suggest talking to a marriage councilor and working out how to discover a plan of action. I understand why people would resort to p0rn or have affairs when something like this happens, but I do not think that is should be the answer. If she doesn't listen to reason, in the end, you should give up intercourse, because you love her. A relationship should not rest only in intercourse, and if you leave her because of it (or lack of it) then you are showing that you rate your own -blam!- pleasures above your (non-physical) relationship. [i]- JFKES[/i]

If my girlfriend wishes to film us having sex then I absolutely wouldnt mind. I already have my pr0n name decided. On a more serious note: Wanking isnt that big of a deal. I know for a fact EVERYONE has at least pleasured themselves, man or woman, at least once in their lifetime. I wouldnt doubt the Pope has had a whack. WTF is a Beiber? [Edited on 02.10.2011 2:07 PM PST]

Lots of sad, secksually confused adolescents in this thread. [Edited on 02.10.2011 2:00 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] JFKES [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Robobeast How do you propose a man exercises his -blam!-ity when his partner isn't as interested anymore? I believe you do not understand some of the realities of relationships and -blam!-ity. Believe me when I say that after two children women are not very interested in sex. At the moment your advice is simply for men to ignore it - nice one.[/quote]Then that is the partners problem. She is seeing intercourse as more of a one way thing for her. She should continue having intercourse with you, because she loves you, in the same way I guess you will help her tidy the house. You both have to do things which you don't really want yourself, in order to make the other happy. Of course people have needs, but resorting to other forms of stimulation is not the answer, they should instead asses the cause. I really do suggest you talk to your partner about it and explain how you feel. [i]- JFKES[/i][/quote] Therin lies the issue though, no matter how much the two of you talk about it there is the chance that she is just done with frequent sex, and nothing you say may be able to sway her. So what do you suggest? "Dealing" with it and growing bitter at your partner over such a thing? Surely you wouldn't suggest ending a relationship over one's prudish behavior. So what's the option?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big After looking over these posts, it seems as if you believe that marriage can be a lifelong institution for everybody. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on who you are, that's not the case. Marriages that are forced are horrid. If a guy's rejecting his wife to look at adult videos, it's over, and that's not even a bad thing. It's a good indicator to both of them that either they need to work out their issues, or it's time to move on.[/quote]I know marriage can not be a life long thing for everybody. My grandparents slit up, my best mates father went off with another woman. Both my aunts are divorced. Just because marriage (or just a committed relationship) can end, doesn't mean it should. The final thing that ruined every marriage I have seen end is un-forgivingness. Sure in some cases it is understandable, such as if the partner is addicted to p0rn and wont give it up. But that does not mean it is needed for that to happen. A divorce solves nothing, it is like quitting a game because you are finding it too hard, it would be much better to push through the hard times, no matter how difficult it is until you get past the tough moments and you have worked it out between you both. [i]- JFKES[/i]

I agree with the OP 95%.

I see, I see....

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Robobeast How do you propose a man exercises his -blam!-ity when his partner isn't as interested anymore? I believe you do not understand some of the realities of relationships and -blam!-ity. Believe me when I say that after two children women are not very interested in sex. At the moment your advice is simply for men to ignore it - nice one.[/quote]Then that is the partners problem. She is seeing intercourse as more of a one way thing for her. She should continue having intercourse with you, because she loves you, in the same way I guess you will help her tidy the house. You both have to do things which you don't really want yourself, in order to make the other happy. Of course people have needs, but resorting to other forms of stimulation is not the answer, they should instead asses the cause. I really do suggest you talk to your partner about it and explain how you feel. [i]- JFKES[/i]

After looking over these posts, it seems as if you believe that marriage can be a lifelong institution for everybody. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on who you are, that's not the case. Marriages that are forced are horrid. If a guy's rejecting his wife to look at adult videos, it's over, and that's not even a bad thing. It's a good indicator to both of them that either they need to work out their issues, or it's time to move on.

Very... Intelligent? Not something I expect from The Flood. +1

Before I move onto this second long post. I would like to thank everyone who has posted, be it with kind remarks and thank yous, or arguments against my view. If you disagree, I would much rather debate it with you, than you stay silent. Now, moving on: [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] superfonz666 May I say that, although our opinions differ, I respect you for being mature during a debate.[/quote] Thank you, I do enjoy this, although it is at some points draining. [quote]Okay fair enough, but surely you agree that the issue is reversable, and just as valid when reversed?[/quote]Very much so, even to some stronger degrees. It is just that I do not think that it is as common. [quote]Here is the article I found the statistics in; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornographic_actor#Pay_rates I hope you have the sense not to refute it simply because it is wikipedia, this article is well referenced. It is actually very hard to find anything on this subject that is not from the point of religious fundementalists or conservative nuts like Fox, comdemning p0rn just because it's p0rn. However, this find was interesting; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_workers%27_rights#Forced_prostitution People in the secks industry have had their rights campaigned successfuly and are now not discriminated against, noteably in the section "The Declaration of the Rights of Secks Workers in Europe (2005)". Again it's not the issue at hand, but extremely related.[/quote]I don't think you quite get what I mean, let me get a link to show you, just so we are on the same page... [quote]And the people who filmed it and put it up on the internet are well aware of this. In fact most people watch ameature (including myself) because it is genuine, and I can tell the people in it enjoy it. But this is not what I am limited to, of course I enjoy some more depraved things, but I know they are unrealistic for a real-life desire, and so, should I imagine, would anyone with half as much common sense as I.[/quote]Just because they know that it is happening, does not make it any more correct. I hate to use an analogy (I am told by those which know me that I use them far too much...) but say someone posted a video of them killing some one else, just because the person who posted it enjoys it, and knows that people who are watching it will objectify the person being killed, does not make it any more acceptable. I understand the difference between my example and that of amateur p0rn, but I think that the same basic logic applies. [quote]Another thing is this; if, as you argue, it is wrong to objectify women, shouldn't it therefore be immoral to compliment them on your looks? Hence, phrases like "your hair looks nice today" or " you look attractive" would become taboo.[/quote]Not really, they are compliments, you say them to make the person feel better about themselves, which is totally different to objectifying women. You are still respecting the individual, and you are simply stating something about their appearance, not using their appearance for your own pleasure, turning them into an object for your use, nothing more. [quote]Again, does a woman (or anyone!) not love, nay, crave being complimented on their looks?[/quote]See above. [quote]This is my opinion, but the body and mind are two completely seperate things, you must agree.[/quote]In once sense yes, but they are also very closely linked. [quote]Every person has the right to do what they please with their body, many of which I don't agree with, but it is their freedom and I will allow it.[/quote]On one level I say that we should have freedom, but say I wanted to use my body to become a child rapist, would you still allow it? [quote]Analogy; would you judge a scientist first by his work, or his personality? Obviously it would be the first one, his work. And is this wrong or right? Well neither, really, but it certainly is acceptable. Can the same not apply to a p0rn actor/actress? Of course it can![/quote]Interesting point. But you are not treating the scientist himself as an object, just his published work, which differs, because the work [b]is[/b] an object, and is not an individual. [quote]Now, just because this man is a scientist, would people expect him to invent reliable jetpacks, or time travel? Of course not, his field is probably observing bacteria, or studying tectonic trends. However, with fictional sceintists, the impossible can be expected; Gordon Freeman, Dr. Frankenstein, even Doc Brown are all examples. Now the same applies to (as one lad afew posts back put it) "Hollywood p0rn" - the scenarioes, sets, people, are all deliberately fictional or extreme because of the same reason - fantasy. Essentially, people who argue p0rn is wrong are the same people (or mindset of people) who argued that DnD was wrong back in the 70's because it was "satanic".[/quote]Again, p0rn stars are individuals, they are encouraging these more extreme types of sex. You can argue that they never mean it to be replicated, but many people wish that it could be. The difference between not actually being live on Pandora and be an Avatar and p0rn in this case, is that often although people want both, they blame their partner if they don't get this fantasy intercourse. [quote]Of course it is shallow! Infact I think in my previos comment I voiced my distaste for casual secks. However you are implying that p0rn and secks are the same thing. That's like saying Call of Duty and the real fighting in the middle East or in WW2 are the same thing. And before anyone mentions it, no, vidoegames do not promote violence in [b] psychiologically healthy [/b] individuals.[/quote]Its not like saying Call of Duty and fighting in the middle East are the same thing, as the characters and people in Call of Duty aren't real, they aren't even actors. Also, when playing Call of Duty, you aren't actually watching real people being killed, even if it was in a slightly unrealistic way, you knew it was totally fake. With p0rn, it is actually two people having intercourse, in some cases it may still be over the top, but the act is still taking place. You said you liked watching amateur p0rn which is more realistic, this isn't fake at all, so it isn't like Call of Duty at all. [quote]Cheers for understanding, I tend to write in one long, articulated vomit of information and then ammend it later.[/quote]No problem :) I am just thankful someone invented the enter button... [quote]I agree but both have significant effects on people.[/quote]No longer anything to debate here. [quote]Cheating is a real, physical act of betrayal.[/quote] -blam!-ion is a physical act, and watching something to stimulate it is also just as 'real', the betrayal although may not quite be equal, it close in the minds of many partners. [quote]It can cause the spread of (deadly) STDs/STI's including AIDs.[/quote]Sure, but in many cases that isn't why the partner is upset about someone cheating. [quote]In many places it is also illegal (even if in the same place polygamy is accepted). It is especially detremantal to families, if one partner cheats[/quote] I agree, but that is because I think that it is more in the open, I have talked to people who were totally distraught after finding downloaded p0rn on their boyfriends computer. [quote](which brings up the point that it is unjust that a woman gains custordy of children something like 80% of the time in divorce court cases, regardless of who is the guilty party).[/quote] Totally agree. [quote]Also the person who cheats will then become undesireable by future potential partners for being unfaithful, and the "victim" (I am unsure of what term to use here) will become undesireable because they may be seen as an unworthy partner, if it was their fault the cheating occured (by driving away their partner with abuse, lack of intimacy, drug addiction, etc).[/quote] Some times, but it is surprising how many people re-marry even after being unfaithful (sure it may break up again, but that does not change that fact that they were desirable) [quote]Cheating is a percieved act of betrayal. There is no physical cheating occuring with p0rn, other than the false perception in the other half's mind. p0rn does not cause any negative health effects (on a psychologically healthy indiviual). Neither would cause any family problems within a family if it were accepted, because even if the other partner is aware, it can be easily hidden from children who are too young to see that sort of thing (eg about 13 or below).[/quote] P0rn can be seen as an act of betrayal, there is a physical act of -blam!-ion while watching p0rn. Cheating (if accepted) would cause no family problems, some stars are unfaithful all the time and it doesn't effect them, but they are a tiny minority, and IMO there is no point in them being together. [quote]With p0rn there is realistically no victim, unless one half is, as I said before, unstable.[/quote] The family can be a victim, if the husband is tired of his wife, and wont give up his satisfaction which he gets from p0rn. [quote]No worries, I think the Flood needs some (fairly) intelligent and mature debate.[/quote] Intelligent debate on the flood? I never thought I would see the day! :P But really, I do enjoy arguing/debating with others, because even if I don't change the others mind, it secures in my own mind, my personal beliefs. I thank you for taking the time to answer and ask questions, prying deeper into my own mind and thought process. [i]- JFKES[/i]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The real Mr Lala [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SweetTRIX I disagree, -blam!- does little more than to visualize a persons fantasy, hence why it is offered in so many flavors. Peoples perversions have been around since, well, people. Stating that -blam!- is responsible for shaping such things is ignorant at best, if anything it simply feeds of perversions already in place. IMO The only thing the adult entertainment industry increases is accessibility.[/quote] I don't think this is a case of "don't kill the messenger." By increasing the accessibility to explicit content, the adult industry has made s3xual perversion [i]mainstream[/i].[/quote] I don't see how it could accomplish such a thing, it caters to perverted people, it doesn't make them. Bottom line, if there was no market for it, it wouldn't exist. Pr0n didn't create those who are enticed by watching sex acts, it simply caters to them. [quote]So they are doing harm.[/quote] Elaborate please, harm in what way? [quote]Okay, even if you believe that p0rn is fine for adults, you have to admit that it isn't good for the 10-13 y/o kids who accidentally find it online. The average age of exposure to p0rn is 11 (sorry I can't find a citation for that). Personally I believe some p0rn [i][b]is[/b][/i] marketed to 13-19 y/o crowd. that may be completely false, but as someone who has viewed p0rn from an early age that is my perspective. I'd give some examples, but I don't want to get too explicit.[/quote] I have at no point ever implied or insinuated that pr0n should be viewed or is acceptable to be viewed by minors, that is entirely unrelated to the subject of debate that I have carried with the OP for some time now. I do agree that it should not be in the hands of minors (for a few reasons), but that's more an issue of accesibility than of it existing in general. [quote]At first, p0rn simply takes the desires we already have an "exploits" them. But further on (at least for me), I found myself being attracted to things I was never attracted to in the first place. Some of those things scared me.[/quote] A totally subjective issue, but to be fair, sure it can happen. The thing to remember is that there is someone out there that will buy it, so they make it. Sure people who crave only "vanilla" pr0n may be introduced to new stuff, but that's not to say that the adult entertainment industry is making this up, they are (once again) simply catering to the market. [quote]Even if p0rn is simply "visualizing" a person's fantasy, is that really a good thing? No, of course not. [i]But it pays the bills so what the heck.[/i][/quote] Why is it inherently a bad thing? As long as it doesn't interfer with your daily life, cause health/mental concerns, or interfer with your relationship then whats the issue? [Edited on 02.10.2011 1:50 PM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mahspoonis2big Perversion isn't mainstream, it's [i]ingrained[/i] in your head. People have been "perverted" for as long as they've been having sex. And that's about as long as we've existed.[/quote] ^ This

You people are making this much more complicated than it is. If an individual from a committed relationship has an issue with his/her partner watching certain videos from the internet, then it's obviously because that person is insecure about the relationship. If it's anything religious or moral then it's their problem ( I am not going into this.) Anyhow, I would be fine with my partner doing so. It's not as if they're disregarding the commitment to the relationship by talking to another person. That's another issue. As for the biased comments and all of this bull-blam!- from the other posters, stfu. You're annoying me more than the OP. He's just voicing his opinion is all. As I've said before, all of you are making this much more complicated than the issue really is.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The real Mr Lala [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SweetTRIX I disagree, -blam!- does little more than to visualize a persons fantasy, hence why it is offered in so many flavors. Peoples perversions have been around since, well, people. Stating that -blam!- is responsible for shaping such things is ignorant at best, if anything it simply feeds of perversions already in place. IMO The only thing the adult entertainment industry increases is accessibility.[/quote] I don't think this is a case of "don't kill the messenger." By increasing the accessibility to explicit content, the adult industry has made s3xual perversion [i]mainstream[/i]. So they are doing harm. Okay, even if you believe that p0rn is fine for adults, you have to admit that it isn't good for the 10-13 y/o kids who accidentally find it online. The average age of exposure to p0rn is 11 (sorry I can't find a citation for that). Personally I believe some p0rn [i][b]is[/b][/i] marketed to 13-19 y/o crowd. that may be completely false, but as someone who has viewed p0rn from an early age that is my perspective. I'd give some examples, but I don't want to get too explicit. At first, p0rn simply takes the desires we already have an "exploits" them. But further on (at least for me), I found myself being attracted to things I was never attracted to in the first place. Some of those things scared me. Even if p0rn is simply "visualizing" a person's fantasy, is that really a good thing? No, of course not. [i]But it pays the bills so what the heck.[/i][/quote]Perversion isn't mainstream, it's [i]ingrained[/i] in your head. People have been "perverted" for as long as they've been having sex. And that's about as long as we've existed.