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4/29/2004 8:13:22 AM
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Why?
Why is this forum so incredibly pathetic?
The question burns me like a cigeratte butt being outted on the surface of my flesh. This is easily the most spam filled and most lackadaisically moderated board I have ever been to.
When I first heard Bungie redesigned and put up a new forum I was wholly excited to become part of a community that would be so close to Bungie's home. But upon my arrival I was assiduously taken a back by witnessing some of the most silliest and most unproductive of topics. "Does this look like Halo" (with "Halo" being represented by various slashes and Foward slashes), "Am I too young?" or "How fast will you drive home when you get Halo 2?". Those are just a few off the top of my head. There are much stupider ones around here and many threads even repeating themselves on the first page.
Then I stumbled across a a thread asking everyones age. Eager to find out the core age demographic of these forums and hopefully justify some of the retartedness seen around here, I hopped in to take a look. While I wasn't surprised to see a few 10-16 year olds, I was shocked to see alot were around my age and much older (I'm twenty), and discussing some of these retarted subjects.
While board members' reasons for joining these forums vary (WILDLY it seems), I joined for a very singular purpose: I had alot of ideas I thought would be cool for Halo 2 and I figured posting them here would be my best chance to have Bungie recognize them. But unfortunately, there are so many spam topics and repeat threads posted every second of every minute, any topic usually drops to the 5th or 6th page within an hour. This forum is simply RIFE with activity, wich is good, but most of it is worthless activity.
This has happened with many other good threads, but unfortunately, they're are quickly eclipsed by spam.
While it seems the members here don't seem to be the best (sorry for being so direct, but it's all I know), It's not entirely thier fault as I have to point a finger at the moderators. For example, right now there is 2 sniping threads on the front page and 3 threads about vehicles. Why the hell aren't some of these closed/deleted? It's a complete waste of space.
And what the hell is up with some of those stickied topics? "My first Halo experience"? WTF? Why are these topics worth stickying? They're totally unimportant and if the community held interest in them, they'd stay near the top like any popular thread. Stickied topics should be reserved for something important or something you'd want people to see as the come in. Under this criteria only the "Forum Rules" and "Do not post the GI article" threads qualify.
This forum needs to shape up. Bad. For one, moderators can start by unstickying some of those crap topics and replacing them with a thread like "The official Halo 2 wishlist thread" or "The official Halo novel thread". Just having two threads like that would cut down on repeat topics considerably and the former, would be much more likey to be read by someone important (i.e. Bungie employee) as it's stickyed. You'd be a fool to think a developer with such a dedicated fan base wouldn't look to their community to see what they'd like in their games. You'd also be a fool to think they'd enjoy searching through 120 + pages of crap for our best ideas.
Also, this forum needs a search function.....BAD.
Sorry to fly off the handle like that, but I had to get this off my chest. This forum is crashing and burning and people need to take notice.
-SynikaL
( *Puts on the flame retarted vest and loads twin glocks full of lexical ammo*)
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If theres one new forum this site really needs its a non-Halo one. I posted a question in the main forum about Myth and was quickly flamed by half the forum who had never heard of the game. Jeez. I even got told by one guy that I was at the wrong website. If you want intelligent discussion I suggest you migrate over to the HBO forums.
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Hopefully, but Bungie has their eye on who they want to do what around here. Reply to my royal bashing: Yes, there is going to be tons and tons of repeat topics! But do you really want to chain Stosh to his desk and make him read them all and close them one by one? People need to realize they should post under one topic, but many assume that they won't get heard so they start up another post. Maybe newer posts should be placed at the top of the thread or have the reverse order thing like in some 7th Column databases. Bungie probably does waste a lot of resources keeping these forum posts up, but really, it would almost be killing people’s right to post whatever they would like (in compliance to the Code of Conduct) in the appropriate forum. A lot of these discussions seem to be fit for smaller forums, i.e. a Chapter’s personal forum, but it probably won’t happen. I think we’re going to have to deal with it, even if we like it or not. But Bungie is working on a solution and are always listening to members, even if we know it or not. To you my friend, I say we need more members like you. You are willing to voice your opinion and are a master at conversation, something hard to come by. As for my first quote you pointed out, I felt you were a little hot headed and well, that made me too, so it was a burst of anger. Either way, I hope to hear more about your opinions, but maybe we should really wait to -blam!- when the finial version comes out.
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[quote]Yea...there are only two mods now. Our numbers will increase soon, though.[/quote] Disembodied Soul's coming back and bringing his mates?
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Please excuse NewNab, he's british ;) But seriously, without the spam these forums rock, I mean there ARE some good topics. I also agree with you on the underground, although I was a little more frank and enraged(literally) some underground folks off. I just felt on your first post it was a little to irate....you sounded a little hot, but from your last post I see that you just want to get your point across, and you have... -KIA Grunt
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as for me calling u a fool, im sorry, it just seemed to me like you wanted the red carpet treatment, and judged the moderators and how hard they were working too early and therefore came to an unjust conclusion, i normally use language like fool, at least i didnt swear at you or really lose my rag, you called this forum pathetic, its the sae differance. topics do get snowed under no matter what, in the underground, even now, topics go off the page within 5 minutes, so if stosh thinks they will be good (or shiska for that matter), and people will want to reply to it, then they will sticky it, u say if its popular then it will stay on the page? how can it be popular if its gone before anyone sees it?
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Yea...there are only two mods now. Our numbers will increase soon, though. [Edited on 5/3/2004 9:48:37 PM]
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SynikaL Way to be man, I am impressed at your ability to make yourself heard, and then respond in a calm and cohesive manner to those who spoke against you. You make good points, and people are listening. I agree wiht your description of the forums and the amount of repeat posts, as well as many of the other points you made. Keep it up, we are listening, and so are the mods and bungie staff (evidentaly). Try not to be TOO harsh as they are few and far between. It is nice to see a relevant post, one that is thought provoking and not just a mess of garbage! [Edited on 5/3/2004 9:42:02 PM]
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"Hey that halo 2 wishlist seems like a pretty good idea. I'll see what sketch thinks...it would probably cut down on a lot of spam. Thanks." Thanks for listening.
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We used only have 10 topics per page...so popular topics used to fall off the page and into the void often. But not anymore. Hey that halo 2 wishlist seems like a pretty good idea. I'll see what sketch thinks...it would probably cut down on a lot of spam. Thanks. [Edited on 5/3/2004 9:33:14 PM]
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What the......? This is gonna be looong. "I leave home for a few days and look what happens." Wow, so much to respond to, so much confusion (mostly on my part), so little time. Before I begin the exemplification process of my actions regarding the original post, I need to clear up a few things first. I had to leave out of town unexpectedly the past few days, and haven't had any access to a PC whatsoever in order to respond in a more punctual fashion (as such an important discussion deserves). I created this topic IN THE UNDERGROUND. It was declared officially dead after only two responses and sank to around the third page in under an hour. After seeing this, I decide this forum and I are simply not meant to be, and I made the decision to leave and never return. Upon my arrival a few days later (tonight), I'm eager to see Frankie's new weekly update, wich is posted rather conveniently (inconveniently) in The Underground. I have no choice but to head under, so to speak. After reading the update, It comes to my attention that I havent seen much of Bungie's new site, so I take a look around. I decide to take a look at the other forums, and stumble into The Septagon, were unbeknownst to me, my topic has been moved here for whatever reason, with fifteen replies. I'm glad, because this forum seems a HELL of alot better than The Underground............. Quote by Stosh: "As for the stickies, I dunno....I change them once or twice a day. And I try to only sticky topics that are interesting and have interesting replies. The first halo experience topic was good because it allowed users to introduce themselves to the board and explain why they love halo so much." Stosh, with the newfound knowledge I have that there are only a measly four mods patrolling the forums at any given time, I really can't judge your quality as a moderator, seeing as how modding all that crap seems to prove as a Herculean task for so few of you. Keep up the hard work. But I do feel I have to question the logistics of that quote. If a topic holds any general interest among the community, don't you think it will, in fact, stay near the top? Also, if you made and stickied a few "official" threads, like an "Official Halo 2 Wishlist" thread, don't you think that would help cut down on threads such as this.... Quote by Terran Grunt: "OMG WAT shOULD BE IN HAL02?!!!11" You could just close/delete them and direct them to the official thread when necessary. Quote by KALMAH: "i agree with you somewhat, there is some pretty bad spam sometimes, but if you think the forum is so bad then leave, or make a thread or threads that aren't spam." How is me leaving going to help the situation? This isn't just my problem, it's yours too. But it obviously doesn't bother you as much. Ignoring the problem isn't going to help rectify it. Quotes by new1nab113: "fool, these people are working really hard...." Come on, you can do better than that. Seriously, if you call me something I don't like again, I'll pick you apart like a six year old and sooo much asparagus, as well as leave you wide open to public humiliation. I didn't call any names, so I'm sure you can get your point across doing the same. "also it makes sense to sticky popular topics! because like you say, no matter how good they are, they get snowed under if not sitkcied!" Like I told Stosh, why would it go under, if it is in fact, popular? "you cant expect bungie and its mods to carry you on its shoulders all the way to the finish, but they will help you along the way.." ....... What the hell does that mean? Quotes by Yoozel: "And just because you think you have good ideas, that they should take first priority over others? I was under impression that everyones’ voice here was equal?" Yeah, I was under that impression too, so I'm wondering what the hell you're talking about. What statements did I make that led you to believe I feel I'm the only one with a voice worth hearing? Was it this one? " This has happened with many other good threads, but unfortunately, they're are quickly eclipsed by spam." Or this one? "While it seems the members here don't seem to be the best (sorry for being so direct, but it's all I know), It's not entirely thier fault as I have to point a finger at the moderators." Where did I unviel in my post, that I'm a selfish, glory seeking monger and everyone elses' opinions are below me? That quote seems like nothing more than a feeble attempt at exhibitioning self righteousness on a public forum to me. "Sure these forums have some kinks and have a lot of the same topics, but it is a community problem, that everyone has to suffer through." You might want to tell KALMAH that. "Topics are repeated, that’s always going to be a problem in any forum, but you’re going to have to deal with it." No doubt about that. Unfortunately my problem isn't as much with repeat topics as is the fact that most of them STAY OPEN. There is absolutely NO reason why there should be 2 topics on sniping and 3 on vehicles on the same page. How much bandwidth do you think Bungie has to waste anyway? Achronos: A much deserved thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to assure us that, Bungie does in fact, care about its fans. Please realize that my post was not meant to be a hard knock against you and your teams hard work, it was simply a ventilation of fustration. I sincerely hope you make your presence felt in the community more often. A message to everyone I didn't get to: While some have agreed or disagreed with everything I had to say, as well as the way I put it foward, all I have to say is this: At the end of the day we all have one thing in common: We all want to have a voice within the community that wants to be heard. If this wasn't true, not a single one of you would be posting here. When I speak, I want to be heard, it doesn't matter if I have to scream at the top of my proverbial lungs for someone to hear me. I encourage all to keep doing the same however directly or indirectly. While my direct approach towards the situation may not have been the best way, it's all I know. Thank you for making me feel heard today. -Syn (*gets off his box of soap*) [Edited on 5/3/2004 9:13:43 PM]
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lol funny stuff, hey yoozel how much will it cost me to eat a pineapple?i have no idea why i said that...ok, wow im an idiot...
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I'll agree for 500 points Mr.Trebeck.
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His post may have been harsh, but he does raise some valid points. I think that the current state of the Underground is atrocious. Sure, you can compare it to xbox.com all you want, but really, you don't deserve a medal for being better than that forum. I think that the b.net forums have a great helpful atmosphere, but the childishness of some of the threads and the quality of the language leaves a lot to be desired. In my opinion, these forums could be better than the HBO forum, because of this helpful atmosphere. While the HBO forum usually seems to have a somewhat better quality, new people usually don't have a chance. And I don't think that they are related. Sure, the threat of being flamed is a fairly big factor in this, but I think the fact that Shishka's Guide for Newcomers sets out an exhaustive study of acceptable behaviour is much more influential. Also, the whole search function thing helps a bit as well... ;) - Reiginko
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Naw, not everyone's a member of your chapter and all, and it's nice to chit chat post talk with b.net members that are not members of your chapter or some other. A off-topic forum would be nice. And to the guy who created this thread: you're being to harsh in my opinion. Compare this community to that of some others. Suddenly, this place looks perfect.
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Always poping i nwhere advice is needed KIA. Off topic, but really, isn't that what personal chapter forums are for? I mean, really?
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I have to say that is the most critical post I have ever seen and you are very, very hard. I think these forums are above satisfactory. In a very short time the moderators responded not only nicely, they offered to rectify the situation. You haven't even posted a thank you of sorts. Achronos also posted. He is a bungie staff member. How many Halo forums can you go to and have BUNGIE staff post a reply. Even the members are practicing self-control (newnab, Yoozel you guys are great) and although some of the content in the forums IS off-topic which I agree to an extent, you came crashing down holding the administration accountable. Your logic is Farcical. I myself and 19, I turn 20 this May and I find the Septagon to be outstanding, however I can only find the Underground a mere satisfactory.(I have voiced before) I suggest if you loathe these forums like you do, you should pack up and leave. I suggest visiting the 7th column, I guess there is less “off-topic” content
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The off topic forum should be there so that we can chit chat about about ourselves and our little experiences in our little lives and all that kind of stuff, however, even in the off-topic forum i don't want to see: "please join my chapter because..." and all that kind of spam. And if those four guys really have a though time, being to darn busy, then get more moderators! I volunteer! (trying to get noticed between the few thousand other volunteers)
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I have to agree with much of this stuff. I agree with stosh, an off topic forum is needed. If you have ever been to the RvB forums the Basement (name of their off topic forum) is the most active. Just like 4, 5 months ago I remember days where I would post in the septagon and visit back in 24 hours and get one response. Now I come back in about 5 minutes and can get 10 responses which is good and bad. More than 4 moderators are needed, that is true. If more moderators are needed, I would volunteer being a member here for a year and a half but I think there are a bunch of people better suited than I. My activity in this forum has decreased as everyone elses has increased. Some spam is bound to happen, a little joke here that takes people off topic etc but an off topic forum would be the place where we can send all the spammers too. Think of it as a prison ;) (Just kidding. Unless...) Oh well. I am sure whatever decision Bungie makes will be the right one. -EDIT- I noticed I joined exactly one year after Achronos. Thats crazy. Exactly to the day. [Edited on 4/29/2004 5:11:18 PM]
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Let me address a few concerns. First, search does not exist because it wasn't on the feature list for this relaunch. The reason for this was primarily because of performance. We didn't have time to make a search function that could stand up to the load that you guys would put on it. Therefore, it wasn't included in this release. Future plans include a search function, but it is a major addition that is non-trivial to add. Second, on the subject of more forums. Right now, we are mulling over the best way to do the "more forum" idea. The problem is that we don't want to fragment discussion too much. Have you ever been to a site that has like 20 forums, but people only ever post in the "general" forum? We don't want to do that. Part of the solution is to determine exactly what any new forums should be, but it also means that the moderators need strict policies on what is and is not offtopic. This is especially true in a forum like this, where a moderator has the power to move a thread to a different forum. Such changes are not easy. But there is a reason we worked hard to release the new Bungie.net well in advance of the release of Halo 2: it allows us to work out the kinks so that when the [b]real[/b] flood of users arrives, we'll be ready. So what's the good news? The good news is that we are Bungie, and that means we have a dedicated web/community team who is dedicated to making sure that bungie.net is the best place for a Bungie fan to be on the web. This team constantly evolves this web site with content, small new features, and even several major features in between our "major" releases. A good example of this is how we've altered the forum to display more topics and removed the post counter - all in response to user feedback. So, keep posting your feedback about the site. It helps more than you know. You don't see results instantly, but such feedback is usually incorporated into our plans in some fashion. Thanks for your feedback! [Edited on 5/4/2004 10:33:24 AM]
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First one thing you must understand is that there are two volunteer Moderators and 2( ? ) Bungie employees who watch over the forum. As you have seen, this is a monstrous task for roughly four people to handle. And just because you think you have good ideas, that they should take first priority over others? I was under impression that everyones’ voice here was equal? Sure these forums have some kinks and have a lot of the same topics, but it is a community problem, that everyone has to suffer through. Topics are repeated, that’s always going to be a problem in [i]any[/i] forum, but you’re going to have to deal with it. And until Bungie hires more mods, it’s going to be a hard path until everything is worked out. And it true, people are a little fanatical about Halo and most of these conversations seem as if they are between two twelve year-olds. But what most people don’t realize is that Bungie is so far into completing Halo 2 that it would greatly slow its production and release to add everything that everyone wants, the game probably wouldn’t come out until NEXT Christmas. I say if you don’t like the Underground, don’t visit it. Find a different place to visit. (not to discourage you from hanging out at Bungie.net) Bungie.net’s sister service, the 7th Column is also a great place to exchange ideas with members. Maybe not on as big of a scale as the Underground, but at least you will be heard. That's my input, I will except all bashings , now.
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oh yeah, i forgot that the moderators are on 24/7 and everything....fool, these people are working really hard.... as much as they can humanly do, but its never enough for you people is it? u wanna see bad, go to the xbox.com forums or another sites forums, this place does a damn good job, and it woludnt suprise me if they added the search feature soon, we have told them we need it....also it makes sense to sticky popular topics! because like you say, no matter how good they are, they get snowed under if not sitkcied! and they dont get repeated if they are stickied....if you think its bad, do something about it! make those threads u asked for, they may get stickied if they cut it...you cant expect bungie and its mods to carry you on its shoulders all the way to the finish, but they will help you along the way....no if you want, i can explain it again using my theories of a bee hive again.. but that would alienate me form my fellow bungie fans again.....
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I think what we need is a couple new forums. Like a forum just for halo 2 theories/ideas and another for off-topic discussions. And also you're right. When NEED a search feature here. I don't feel comfortable locking some duplicate topics without a search feature. I can't tell a user he's at fault for making a duplicate topic if there isn't a way for him to search through the forum for interesting topics. I delete a lot of the really dumb topics too, but I miss a few sometimes. Don't feel shy about alerting the moderators when you see a foul or just plain silly topic. We'll deal with it. As for the stickies, I dunno....I change them once or twice a day. And I try to only sticky topics that are interesting and have interesting replies. The first halo experience topic was good because it allowed users to introduce themselves to the board and explain why they love halo so much. [Edited on 4/29/2004 10:45:12 AM]
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Damn straight! This forum is messy as hell. I posted on some -relevant- topics, but no one ever got a chance to reply because the next day the topics were on like the 8th page and the first page was full of "OMG WAT shOULD BE IN HAL02?!!!11" It's really sad, and if it keeps up I'm going to have to move to another forum and decrease my chances of any ideas being read by Bungie.
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i agree with you somewhat, there is some pretty bad spam sometimes, but if you think the forum is so bad then leave, or make a thread or threads that aren't spam.
