It's already confirmed that the Halo and Marathon universes are totally different and have no relation other than the references and odes to Marathon in the Halo games that a player can see throughout the trilogy. It's not Marathon. Here's why: [quote]Slip space travel is actually travel between universes, and it is possible to exit into alternate opposed universes. That's my theory, but if you played all their games, you can see why I theorized on this, especially the third Marathon.[/quote]The third Marathon game (Infinity) travels through time, rather than dimensions. [quote]We know the Halo distress takes place in the 2500's, irrefutable. We know outside of that the universe was relatively calm since the Forerunners, just skirmishes at the best between human colonies. We know in Marathon, the universes is in distress more often than not. We also know nothing of note happened in the 2500's.[/quote][url=http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline]We know what happens before that time.[/url] Although, nothing is listed for the 2500's, there's a chance that Halo's timeline is a reference to that dead spot, but I don't know it it goes beyond that. [quote]We know Guilty Spark 343 recognized the Chief for some reason. Why, we don't know.[/quote]In short, 343 recognizes humanoids as "reclaimers" because the humans are basically Forerunner descendants. [quote]We know at the end of Halo 3 the Chief's half of the ship split off from the other during a closure in slip space. So what does this all mean. For this to work we need to give a little way to science fiction. Let's assume that rogue AI, such as Cortana (Halo) and Beowulf (Marathon) are not confined to the physical limitations of dimensions like organic life and that information is open freely between them. Let's conclude that the Forerunner's were advanced enough to cross through time and dimensions. It's plausible considering them. In doing so they created an information link that transcends time and space for computers. Consider this could be very confusing to the AI involved. For this, I say Beowulf = Guilty Spark 343, in a manner of speaking. This is why he recognizes the chief.[/quote]There has been much speculation about this topic. Some do believe that the MC and Cortana were sent to another universe, but that's the end of it. On the other hand, they may have just been transported somewhere else in the universe or galaxy. The possibilities are endless. But again, I must emphasize that 343 recognized MC's species, rather than "face." [quote]The Chief is put into stasis with the instructions to Cortana to wake him when he is needed. Cortana has a life span that is almost over. During their free float, Cortana overflows with information and implodes. The Chief is not monitored or awaken and passes in his perfect frozen state. One day he is found, genetically superior, with incredible technology. Someone, some scientist, decides he is a perfect test subject for a super soldier program. Graphs on cyborg technology onto his body to reanimate him. He is employed at what he does best war. Becoming employed to the security officer position for his extreme prowess on the battle field. Now we have a seamless transition that works with the Marathon time line and Halo time line.[/quote]Read all of [url=http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Mjolnir_Mark_IV_Cyborg]this[/url]. And I will tell you right now, Forerunner=\=Jjaro. The Marathon and Halo universes bear much resemblance to each other, but that's for a reason beyond crossing realities. You must see me as a mean and awful person to shoot you down, but there has already been much research on the subject already. But I do applaud your efforts! I would highly suggest you take a gander at [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/puzzles.html]this page[/url] and the information it has to offer. And I'm basically tooting my own horn here, but I have composed a theory myself. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=40929715]Although it may not be a theorem quite yet[/url] I feel that it does offer a good amount of information on the two universes and how they are tied together into something way better than remakes. :) [Edited on 05.12.2010 3:28 PM PDT]

I don't find you mean. Everything you have said is pure speculation, such as my own. The only thing Bungie has said is they aren't the same universe and even that post was teasing and vague. You can't use fan-based history as proof, anything and everything in my post is knowledge that can only be derived from the actual games.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cortana 5 *Text*[/quote] You're kind of awesome.

[quote]What is unusal, however, is the fact that there are nine military Mjolnir Mark IV cyborgs covertly living on the colony. How are you "bigger and stronger, and a better shot" than these nine cyborgs? This could be explained by the fact that as the cyborgs were living "covertly" any superior advantages they had over normal humans would be purposely hidden. Either that or 'not all cyborgs are equal' and you are "bigger and stronger, and a better shot" than the other nine cyborgs.[/quote] This definitely fits with my theory.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned I don't find you mean. Everything you have said is pure speculation, such as my own. The only thing Bungie has said is they aren't the same universe and even that post was teasing and vague. You can't use fan-based history as proof, anything and everything in my post is knowledge that can only be derived from the actual games.[/quote]That's not just fan-based history. The content in those links (omitting the link to my thread) is based off of the actual games. The Pfhorpedia links hold valuable information from people who pretty much live and breathe Marathon lore. On top of that, the marathon.bungie.org links were put up back when a lot of people still played. I would highly suggest checking out where my "fan-based evidence" comes from before you discredit it. Any speculation written on the pages (especially MBO) clearly present any and all pertaining facts before putting in speculation. Bungie stated this information [i]through[/i] their games.

That Wiki is fan based lore and speculation.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned That Wiki is fan based lore and speculation.[/quote]"Fan-Based Lore" is fanfiction, dude. If you think it's so unreliable, then match up the facts with the in game story yourself. Any speculation in those pages do not try and pass off as fact. [Edited on 05.11.2010 9:42 PM PDT]

Also cortana 5, we DON'T know what happened in the 2500s in Marathon. The timeline jumps suddenly from 2474 to 2773. This idea is totally plausable and the best time travel/alternate reality theory I have heard yet.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned That Wiki is fan based lore and speculation.[/quote] [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/]But this isn't.[/url] And neither is [url=http://www.marathon.org/story/maratime.html]this.[/url] [Edited on 05.11.2010 9:42 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Havoc 101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned That Wiki is fan based lore and speculation.[/quote] [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/]But this isn't.[/url] And neither is [url=http://www.marathon.org/story/maratime.html]this.[/url][/quote] Yes, but a lot of things in there support my idea as well.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gottalovec4 Also cortana 5, we DON'T know what happened in the 2500s in Marathon. The timeline jumps suddenly from 2474 to 2773. This idea is totally plausable and the best time travel/alternate reality theory I have heard yet.[/quote]I mentioned the jump in my first post. If a cyborg in cryo-sleep was found that later allowed the cyborg development, then it would have said so. But the cyborg you play as (if you truly are that cyborg, no one knows for sure) has his technology based off of Jjaro technology. Yes, your idea is plausible, but there's already a lot more evidence in the Marathon games against it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Havoc 101 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned That Wiki is fan based lore and speculation.[/quote] [url=http://marathon.bungie.org/story/]But this isn't.[/url] And neither is [url=http://www.marathon.org/story/maratime.html]this.[/url][/quote] Yes, but a lot of things in there support my idea as well.[/quote] But then again a lot of things in there don't. We probably won't know if you're right or wrong until they announce their new game. A thing to keep in mind though, a friend of mine pointed out that Bungie recently renewed the Marathon liscence. Whether or not it's for a new game, or something entirely different, (like what Freeverse did for Durandal, but maybe this time for one of the other games) we probably won't know for a while.

I found it odd that in one of the reach ViDoc's a Marathon shirt is being worn. I also find it odd that Bungie has split it's staff while working on what has been described by Activision as a "Halo style shooter." [Edited on 05.11.2010 9:49 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned That Wiki is fan based lore and speculation.[/quote] And the TF Wiki is as well, but it's regarded as basically an official information source. The guys behind these fan wikis REALLY know their stuff, and the creators themselves often contribute.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned I found it odd that in one of the reach ViDoc's a Marathon shirt is being worn. I also find it odd that Bungie has split it's staff while working on what has been described by Activision as a "Halo style shooter."[/quote]Marathon is part of Bungie culture and represents a lot of Bungie's history. They've worn Marathon shirts in other documentaries. "My name is Cortana, of the same steel and temper as Joyeuse and Durandal." If you read my thread, it shows that even if the chief went to the Marathon universe, there would be no continuation of it. Joyeuse would presumably be the next AI as Cortana was the second and Durandal was the first. Halo was a Marathon-style game. Joyeuse's game is a Halo-style. Three in the same. I should have said it earlier, but there's a quote floating around (I'm looking for the original), but it goes kinda like this. There's a painting of several mean who are presumably Bungie staff standing around a dead horse. That horse is the Marathon series. They didn't want to beat Marathon into the ground and I feel that they would rather break the mold, rather than lean on old titles.

3 Halo Main Games, 3 Marathon...1 game to unite them all!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned 3 Halo Main Games, 3 Marathon...1 game to unite them all![/quote]Again, at the risk of appearing rude, there's more to it than that. According to the mythology tied to the swords/AIs, each sword took three years to make. It may be more than one, I don't know. Anyways, it's bedtime. If you want to know more about a possible new Bungie game, check the actual mythology behind it and (here I go again) that darned thread I made.

Except for the fact that even if your idea is somehow right (which I find highly unlikely, for reasons which i can enumerate if necessary but would prefer not to out of sheer laziness), there's absolutely no way that they could openly acknowledge that it was the Chief. SPARTAN-117 is part of the Halo universe, which, after Reach, Bungie legally can't touch. So they can make subtle hints, but nothing that would constitute confirmation. In short, whether you're right or not doesn't matter, because you won't ever find out. Yay intellectual property laws! [Edited on 05.11.2010 10:45 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] S_034 Except for the fact that even if your idea is somehow right (which I find highly unlikely, for reasons which i can enumerate if necessary but would prefer not to out of sheer laziness), there's absolutely no way that they could openly acknowledge that it was the Chief. SPARTAN-117 is part of the Halo universe, which, after Reach, Bungie legally can't touch. So they can make subtle hints, but nothing that would constitute confirmation.[/quote]Agreed. Public confirmation of such a thing would likely allow MS to snatch Marathon out of Bungie's hands... Maybe. Perhaps that's why Marathon's trademark was renewed? Independence brings about a lot of reasons to look over one's shoulder. EDIT: I said something about bed earlier, apparently that didn't happen. >_> [Edited on 05.11.2010 10:47 PM PDT]

I think the only way they could pull off an open confirmation without causing major legal problems is if they somehow confirmed it in Reach. And doing so would be a MAJOR stretch in terms of storytelling. God, how I hate writing for convenience....

I read your post, and I have to say. I think you are over-reaching with these swords. They are just popular historical items used in a multitude of games, including Final Fantasy XI. It really comes down to a more simple logic, how do you retain your identity when it belongs to someone else now? Bungie is going to in some way tie these characters together and continue on with their well known and respected hero.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned I read your post, and I have to say. I think you are over-reaching with these swords. They are just popular historical items used in a multitude of games, including Final Fantasy XI. It really comes down to a more simple logic, how do you retain your identity when it belongs to someone else now? Bungie is going to in some way tie these characters together and continue on with their well known and respected hero.[/quote] Why? If they can't openly acknowledge that it's MC, nobody is going to know or likely care. And they can't openly acknowledge it unless they toss something in about it during Reach, which, as I said, would be a pretty big writing stretch, at best. Not only that, Bungie has already DONE Halo and Marathon. Why the hell would they do them again? That just ties their creative hands even tighter, because then they'd have to pay attention to TWO lines of Canon, Halo's and Marathon's. And if you include Pathways into Darkness, THREE lines of canon. Toes would be stepped on, and fans would get pissed. Not only that, even if Bungie managed to pull off a successful merge between the two, 343 can come in THE NEXT DAY and retcon it, because once Reach launches, Bungie is done with Halo and 343 and Microsoft have total control. All they have to do is make one comment about the MC's location and it would completely destroy the merge made by Bungie. 343, whether we like it or not, has full control of the MC now, and if Bungie were to try to merge him 343 could just say it never happened and it would completely destroy the universe that Bungie was trying to create. Bungie's not going to risk the credibility of the plot of their next franchise simply to hold on to the MC. On a related note, why is it that people insist on identifying Bungie only with Halo? There's this really bizarre feeling of existential fear that's been floating around since Bungie announced the split with Microsoft, and I DON'T KNOW WHY! This weird need to figure out ways for Bungie to still keep doing Halo stuff after Reach just points to a lack of faith in Bungie as a studio, like they can't do anything besides Halo. Halo's great. I love it, and I'll probably still love it once it's out of Bungie's hands. But Bungie is BETTER THAN HALO. Halo is [i][b][u]NOT[/u][/b][/i] Bungie's "identity", and their "identity" does not belong to someone else now. Let it go. Bungie doesn't need the Master Chief. Maybe the Master Chief needed Bungie; we'll wait and see what happens with 343 at the reins. But whatever Bungie comes out with once their partnership with Activision goes into high gear, it won't be Halo, and it won't be Marathon. Could there be ambivalent and enigmatic references? Sure. There probably will be. This is Bungie, after all. It's one of the things they're best known for. But Bungie's next game will not have us playing as the Chief. We are headed into uncharted waters with Bungie at the helm. Jump ship now if you want to remain within known territory. [Edited on 05.12.2010 9:42 AM PDT]

i love u spawned HALOTHON!

I don't get it, why can't people just accept that Halo (Bungie's part in it) and Marathon are both OVER!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Spawned I read your post, and I have to say. I think you are over-reaching with these swords. They are just popular historical items used in a multitude of games, including Final Fantasy XI. It really comes down to a more simple logic, how do you retain your identity when it belongs to someone else now? Bungie is going to in some way tie these characters together and continue on with their well known and respected hero.[/quote]Understandable, you're not the first to find that thread inconcievable.. But Bungie is no exception when it comes to historical references. Even if my theory isn't true, there are other confirmed connections to mythology and whatnot in Bungie games, including Halo. I think you are sadly mistaken when mentioning Bungie's identity. Yes, Halo was a huge game for Bungie, but that's not the only thing that made the studio great. They [i]can't[/i] continue the chief's story and they [i]can't[/i] continue Marathon's story as it ends when the [url=http://www.marathon.org/story/mifinalscreen.html]universe ends[/url]. Just as the studio decided to put Marathon to rest, they put Halo to rest (although MS may have other plans). Why would they limit their creativity to something that has already been established? Why not start up again with another universe? They've done it with Pathways Into Darkness, Marathon, Myth, Oni, and Halo.

Spawned: Clearly you've thought about this. But you're still ignoring the fact that Bungie confirmed that Halo and Marathon don't have any connections beyond references here and there. Pixar puts "A113" somewhere in every movie. Does that mean Toy Story takes place in the same Universe as The Incredibles? Look, you can write all you want and try to connect them (by the way, you're assuming a lot of things in your original post). You can cherry pick dozens of sources that seem to suggest they're connected. You could discredit Cortana V and HER sources all you want. You could publish a paper in The Gaming Journal or whatever that strongly implies Halo and Marathon are connected. But all of this is null and void because [i]Bungie confirmed there is no connection[/i]. You're pulling disparate pieces together to support your point when really you don't have a point to make. This is exactly what conspiracy theorists do. Argue with what Bungie said all you want. I'm sure you know more about the fiction than they do. [/rant]