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Edited by Auzonir-13:
10/12/2015 4:32:05 PM
370
HandCannons Nerfed Too Much?
I made this post simply to see if anyone shared my frustration with the recent Patch to Destiny's crucible. I am all for accurate damage drop off and trying to encourage people to use a variety of weapons, but I dont agree with being forced to use pulse rifles in order to stay in the Meta.
I've seen every phase crucie has been through and was here for the dreaded Thorn/TLW outbreak, but even then; people weren't so much complaining about the range and effectiveness of all Handcannons but just the afore-mentioned headaches.
I dont agree with handcannon accuracy being stomped on and also tickling the opponents i do manage to hit from mid range.
Even when using Hawkmoon max BS damage is 60 compared to the 64 damage it did. With HS doing 90 - 122 (157 with 2 stacked bullets) compared to the 94 -126 damage that used to give this gun its strength.
I can't tell you how many people seem to: A~phase through bullets not even talking latency or B~ giggle after I tickle them with my new water gun, Aka Survive with slivers of health.
Im so tired of getting the first shot on someone and dying because of weapon choice even when its in its intended range. PulseRifles seem to be more accurate and also have no damage drop off making Hand cannons useless and putting them in that same spot Scout rifles were in before 2.0.
I hope we can all agree to my main point: if Handcannons are to be so inaccurate, there should be much less damage drop off... or buff accuracy so that i dont feel blind and dumb shoting at an enemy charging straight at me, but still missing 3 of 6 shots fired even if they dont hurt him/her I atleast know im not going crazy...
Dont even get me started on Snipers in crucie... let me know how you all have been fairing. I welcome all conversation to the topic!
Edit# 1: Broke it up cause of reading complaints lol.
Edit# 2: Thanks to everyone for sharing their feedback and being civil (for the most part) with their contributions. I really do appreciate all of constructive contributions.
Edit# 3: found an amazingly rolled Eyasluna in crucie and its so much better than my Hawkmoon.
Check my Titan out if you wanna see its specs. It feels like a year one HC with the ranges its been hitting people from and the accuracy it has.
All my shots even from far ranges hit and with accurate Damage drop i cant snipe people but I've been decimating PR at that med to short range! I had shed a few tears when I realized how accurate the gun was...
I personally still hold true to my post, but I've atleast found 1 gun that isn't blind or rebellious. See you all in the crucie, Gaurdians! Gods-speed if we face off in our trainings! ;)
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They absolutely overdid the nerf. Handcannons are no longer viable in pvp nor pve. But that's bungie they overdo ever nerf to every weapon in destiny. Kinda sad how they literally dictate which weapons players use each patch.
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Yes .... Hawk and thorn r.i.p. ... Pls do go on about the snipers tho ive been having some trouble with them my self
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I just find that HC's are harder to get an accurate aim with than anything else anymore. Pre 2.0 I actually hit what I was aiming at from a decent distance.
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What you call "nerfed too much" I call "balance". I still perform well with handcannons in the Crucible. Imago Loop and Ace of Spades, to be exact.
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1 ReplyYou miss your Thorn, don't you? Lol....
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no theyre fine, i like them to be harder to use instead of the rediculous crutchweapons they used to be
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Pve wise yes, PvP no.
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Hand cannons are so inconsistent right now its annoying. Bungie nerfed them too much and on top of that the 1 cannon ppl complained about the most is still the best hand cannon to use in regular crucible
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Thought about it again, and I still agree. The accuracy nerf has been too much, now that the range has gotten so bad. Thorn and Hawkmoon are still good weapons, but when my shots simply vanish, even though that should have hit at least their body, it is really annoying. Same for Headshots. Everything past the beginning of mid range, is simply too inconsistent. I am thinking of starting to replace my Hawkmoon with a Jade Rabbit. Nearly same RoF, hits incredibly hard as well and has soooo much more potential at range.
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12 RepliesHand cannons are absolutely brutal in PvP, and have no place in competitive play. I finally got a Hawkmoon after over a year of yearning for it, and what do I find? Hand cannons almost never put bullets where you're aiming anymore. The range is less than complete garbage, and the fact that all year 2 exotics have 3 perks leaves Hawkmoon even further behind. I tried to use it for a couple weeks (basically right from the day Xur sold it) and finally just gave up and swapped to my old pulse rifle. The difference was noticeable instantly, my K/d stopped dropping and instead increased at an even greater rate. I still use it in PvE out of pure love of the gun, but only because the bullets are slightly less lively and because PvE is a joke. Please, Bungie, make Hawkmoon worth having again.... Or drop me a Jade Rabbit, since that gun kicks ass in PvP, and after like 200 strikes you finally dropped the gloves I wanted with scout rifle loader.
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NO. Hand cannons are still beast mode you just need a range perk, either rifled barrel or reinforced. And you can't spam shots anymore. You gotta pace your shots and have good aim.
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The feel of the guns have changed a bit. They are still great weapons in both PvP and PvP. If you are having trouble, grab your Ace of Spades and practice in PvE to get the timing and feel of the new performance. Once you get it, you'll be much more successful.
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Hand cannon user from day 1. Hawk was my baby from the moment I got it. Compared to how it was before any patch, it's just displeasing. I can honestly say that I, just a little, agree with the range nerf. Thorn was the biggest reason for that. However, what they have done to accuracy is absurd. I can understand making it hard to spam the trigger, stability should deal with that. But putting my dot on the face of an enemy and being awarded a body shot, or not even hitting the target all together is ridiculous. Something needs to be done to bring these guns back up to par with everything else.
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Coming from the guy that just went into a clash match and left with an 18.0 k/d I can honestly say my shotgun and - Boolean Gemini - brought me there. My next match being with a hand cannon with the same shot gun and getting a .53 k/d is mad frustrating seeing as my favorite gun type is the super needed hand cannon called fatebringer I have to agree with your problem.
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Yup. Pretty useless in pve now
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No. I still het killed by them easy. I'm not a bad player. HC's are CQC weapons. I get 2 shot by Hawkmoon and 3 from others. If you're good with them they can have range. People just complain to much because they miss their thorn and it op power. Each guns has strength and weaknesses. Learn and use them accordingly.
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3 RepliesRange and ammo need a slight boost. Then, it's all hunkie dorie.
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3 RepliesMy only experience thus far has been with Hawkmoon, so far, what I have noticed is that you really need to pick and choose your battles now. I'm not particularly skilled at Crucible, so my comments may not have as much weight as some, but from my brief experience using them since 2.0 released was a very steep upwards battle. Being a PR user primarily back pre-2.0 I found the swap to be a little difficult. I would find myself trying to engage players at longer ranges than what was optimal for HC's (Something they would initially would never have had a problem with back before patch 2.0) Using them now though, I feel has forced me to become a much better player, I must have radar awareness, even more so now, I must take advantage of cover, popping in and out in order to avoid taking damage as much as possible. Above all else though, my aim must be SPOT ON. If I miss a head shot, I'm placing myself at a severe disadvantage due to how potent many other weapons are nowadays. However, nothing, and I mean nothing has given me the satisfaction that comes from doming some Auto Rifle user or a PR user. I have no beef with those weapons mind you, it just feels satisfying to use a weapon that is seldomly used in the crucible these days and win. As for other non exotic HC's, I have a few friends that swear by a well rolled EyasLuna or the new FWC HC. The latter, with the right perks, apparently is pretty beastly if used correctly. Much like Hawkmoon; The Vanity (I believe that is what it's called) requires a steady hand and solid aim from the user to really shine. Overall, yes I think HC's struggle a bit, but I think that is due in part that people are still adjusting to the meta and are too used to the old one to cope with the changes. I wasn't an HC user prior to TK in PvP (I am a devout HC user in PvE however. Still love em to this day, and do just fine in PvE despite the nerfs), so I guess I am not having as many issues as some. TL;DR You can't run and gun with HC's as much as you used to be able to pre-2.0 from what I've seen. You need to be more methodical, and pick your engagements carefully. Stick with your team, (If/When applicable) otherwise, just try to avoid 2v1 fights as much as possible to give yourself the best chance to come out on top. GL;HF May your shots fly true, and first!
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Check impact, fire rate, range... IMO ace of spades, TLW and hawkmoon are good
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Yes!! And not only in pvp but in pve as well. But in the crucible it's much more noticeable and frustrating!! I'm not so much worried about the less range but about the less damage that you do with a HC. And it seems that they are much less unforgiving if you are not 100pro on target. I alwAys hated thorn in pvp, but now red death is nearly as bad and frustrating... So what have we gained? For me, I don't play pvp anymore. I go the dailys and then am happy to not play more... IB will be interesting, but I don't have a good feeling though...
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Snipers lately have been a major pain in the ass to use for me. I think a lot of it is the new scopes on the Omolon and Häkke rifles. The odd extra semi circle around the reticle is incredibly intrusive, and obstructive to headshots. I think my only option is to seriously hold out until I can get a 1000-Yard Stare with Ambush or Shortgaze. I have mixed feelings about the handcannons at the moment. I just got done doing the Crucible portion for the Chaperone quest, and TLW still handles ok. It absolutely decimates at close range as intended. But I am definitely glad to see the handcannon meta over and done with. I feel as though the reason why they "suck" is that they were beyond overperforming in the last year, and are no longer the Apex Predator of the weapon classes. So by contrast they feel shitty because you can no longer compete from ranges on par with Scouts, and rapid follow-up shots don't have the same bullet magnetism they used to. These factors coupled with Auto Rifles coming back from the dead translate into HCs finally getting the run for their money they were exempt from in Year One.
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Can agree about opponents phasing right thru bullets. I've watched slow replays of some matches and my aim was spot on but no damage was taken. This are games with no lag issues. Something is wrong. I see it in scout rifles as well.
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My Ace of Spades works rather well.
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I was a heavy Thorn user. I loved that weapon in PvP (at times it seemed almost unfair for everyone else), but I'm glad I was forced to use other weapons because it has made me a far better player. I knew the hand cannon nerf was coming, it was only a matter of time. So I started to inch my way over to another class of primary and pulse rifles were already very strong in the crucible and I had a Red Death collecting dust in the vault. The one weapon that would consistently beat me in 1v1 firefights was Red Death. The Red Death was the anti-Thorn because of the health regeneration and was just about the only thing that would counter the damage over time that was in every Thorn-users hand. I still used Fate Bringer and the Jewel of Osiris in PvE for the burns but beyond that there really wasn't a viable handcannon worth using. Now with 2.0, Hawkmoon is the only hand cannon (in my opinion) that can compete with anything in the crucible. The last word is only effective at close-med range (although still very deadly) and my Thorn feels like a watered down version of what once was, and just doesn't feel satisfying to use anymore. I haven't given the Ace of Spades a fair shot to see what it can do and I just hit rank 5 with the gunsmith so I can't report on the First Curse. But to be honestly I feel hand cannons are past thier prime. It does make me a little sad but overall I think it will make for a more competitive PvP.
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I just don't think that my ace of spades should take 4 or 5 shots to kill someone when almost always half of them end up being crits
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No my imago loop works fine
