we have beaten the puddle that was the horse about this focus your attention on another weapon that is currently more dangerous than thorn, which is the hack moon compare the thorn which works like this [b]thorn[/b] [u][b]2 hit kill range requires[/b][/u] head and body shot head and head shot [u][b]3 hit kill range requires[/b][/u] body, body, head body, body, body [b]hawk moon[/b] [u][b]1 hit kill range[/b][/u] luck in the chamber, holding aces [u][b]2 hit kill range requires[/b][/u] head, head head, body holding aces, body luck in the chamber, body [u][b]3 shot kill range requires [/b][/u] body. body, head body, body, body, body, body, luck in the chamber body, body, holding aces body lucking the chamber, holding aces need i say more? edit: here is some more information [u]Timur's Lash precision only[/u] = (12 x 604) + 805 = 8053 This is with one luck in the chamber. single precision shot PVP = 95 or 127 or more depending on roll [u]Hawkmoon precision only[/u] = (10 x 573) = 5730 + 764 +764 +764 = 8022 This is with three lucky bullets in the chamber. single precision shot PVP = 94 or 126 with a perk round [u]Thorn precision only [/u]= (9 x 512) = 4608 + (7 * 6)*9 mark of devourer perk = 378 =4986 single precision shot PVP = 81 + perk = 123 [b]edit 4/9/15: option for changes that could balance the weapons[/b] if they reduce the impact to thorn people will still complain about the burn damage, if thats nerfed along with impact then people will say its firing too fast and after all the nerfs it will be hitting less than acceptable in PVE against enemies, and in PVP it would destroy the guns competitive potential almost certainly makings it similar to the devil you dont but slower whats funny is that the last word and thorn are preaty similar both have the same fire rate of 32 both have an impact of 68 the differences start popping up around the other stats Hawkmoon is on its own level Thorn (long range clean up) ROF = 32 IMP = 68 RNG = 38 STB = 31 RLD = 43 MAG = 9 needs to be: fire rate 32, impact 50 , range 40, stability 35-40, reload 45-50, magazine 9, and burn damage does less but stacks with every hit Last Word (close quarters fast clean up) ROF = 32 IMP = 68 RNG = 14 STB = 31 RLD = 56 MAG = 8 needs to be: fire rate 45, impact 75, range 20, stability 31, reload 65, magazine 6, and stability needs to be doubled to 61 while hip firing Hawkmoon (medium/long range power house) ROF = 22 IMP = 81 RNG = 38 STB = 41 RLD = 39 MAG = 13 too much impact to be as stable as it is needs to be: fire rate 25, impact 65, range 38 stability 35-40 reload 40-45, magazine 10, take away the first luck in the chamber perk and replace with performance bonus which puts free ammo back into your reserves when you kill enemies, keep the holding aces the same but remove the bug that allows the perk to stack with itself.