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Bearbeitet von Talia Sendua: 12/19/2021 12:52:01 AM
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Second post on Super Recharge changes... It makes playing Tier 1 supers punishing and kind-off forces to use tier 3+ supers

In my honest opinion Bungie tried to fix something that wasn't a problem before. Sure, PvP had a lot of super usage, but this game is ABOUT SPACE MAGIC. If you want a Halo/CoD-like PvP, go play Halo or CoD! I don't know what and how Void 3.0 and future Light-subclass reworks are affecting the gameplay, but from my current experience it seems like Bungie is achieving the following with the changes: [i](+ for positive, - for negative changes)[/i] + Allow "deeper build customization" and "meaningful choices" + Shift the super usage in PvP + Make supers more important + Reducing the reward for "AFK charging" players super - Force reduced the usage of Tier 1-2 supers - Force increased usage of Tier 3-5 supers - Reducing the uptime of supers in both PvP and PvE - Artificially increasing the difficulty due to slower super regen reduction - Increase the Punishment-Factor for Super-Fails - Forcing more builds to make to be able to play every subclass skill-tree effectively - Psychological pressure to make min/maxers-players use Single-use-Supers instead of Roaming supers - Reducing the reward of killing Majors (orange bar enemies) first for more super energy - In unbalanced crucible games with one team stomping the other team, the loosing team can barely get a full super before the game is mercied From what I remember, the Intention of this change was to allow deeper and more detailed changes to each skill tree, which is a fine idea on paper, but ingame it turns out not that fun and good. Another reason for the changes to supers, was, to reduce the super amounts in PvP. Something that could have been done simply by disabling passive regeneration altogether and only granting energy on caused damage and kills, like Momentum Control does already. I say it again, from my perspective Bungie tried to fix something that wasn't a problem. The people complaining about Supers in PvP are the people that cry over everything that kills them. I am an average player, maybe slightly above. I got the Unbroken Title guilded 3 times. I got a few times flawless. I am not the best player, but I tell you, that Bungie basically made for most of the matchtime the crucible into a Halo-like clone with flying abilities and space magic as "second factor" if you have the luck to even get a 2nd super in a long game or even a single one when joining midgame. Titans got basically made meaningless in PvP and PvE with their slow recharge rates. Warlocks have an even middle-ground at least, while the Hunters are again the "favored child" of Bungie, only because they are too afraid of screwing up the majority of the playerbase that likes to play Hunter. And you know what? At this point I, a Titan main, can actually just go play Hunter instead, because my class got nerfed into the ground (statistically spoken when looking at the super tier list), our Shoulder Charge now only kills with Synthozeps or Peregrine Greaves and what is most annoying for me, is that Sentinel Bubble will be made again a "coward subclass" again, because they are removing the hybrid sentinel shield. I feel more and more like not only a player of 2nd class in case class difference, but more like a player of 3rd class (no pun intended here) because 1.) Titan is the least played class across the entire community and 2.) because we are statistically the class with the most nerfs. And to top all of that, the changes made exotics that return super energy EVEN MORE IMPORTANT if you want to maintain a quick super recharge. Great, what comes next? Forced Exotic Loadouts when selecting a Subclass? Am I now forced to equip Ursa Furiosa when playing mid-sentinel or Doomfang-Pauldrons each time I play the bottom-sentinel? You may call me a "big complainer" at this point, but think about it for a second or two... Why would you use Sentinel when Bubble can buff your team and help your guns do more damage, especially Gjallahorn? Why would you pick Hammer of Sol if Burning Maul can stack damage, has tracking tornados and the possibility to OHK Fusion with the Gauntlets? And why should you play anything else than Thundercrash with Cuirasse of the Falling Star when Fists of Havoc suck now and are less effective in cleaning the area of enemies than a 1-2 second quick detonation-super that kills everything around it almost instantly with the exotic enhanced impact damage? For Warlocks it is not much different either. You either use Nova Bomb or Well of Radiance. Everything else is basically handycapping you in case of recharge times and effectiveness. Chaos Reach might be still a viable choice, but not as much as before. Meanwhile Hunters have only 2 supers in the lower brackets of Tier 1 and 2. Spectral Blades and Golden Gun. Both supers that are mainly that low because of PvP probably. Edit 1: In my opinion Bungie should as temporary fix cut down the 5 brackets of super tiers to 3 brackets. One for roaming supers, one for One-Offs (Kill Supers) and one for Support Supers. - Example - Tier 1 (Slowest): Every Roaming Super (all equal) Tier 2 (Average): Every One-Off Super (Nova Bomb, Thundercrash, Chaos Reach, Silence and Squal, Blade Barrage, 6-shot Nightstalker) (all equal) Tier 3 (Fastest): Every Support Super (Ward of Dawn - Bubble, Well of Radiance, Nightstalker Bow) (all equal) [b]To you Bungie:[/b] You tried something, that did more bad than good so far. Perhaps it would have been a better Idea to have made the changes first when WQ would go live, instead of 1-2 months BEFORE the update. And I really hope you change the super tiers again to a more equal distribution for all classes, otherwise I don't see how you will make anyone play Warlock or Titan more than Hunter or any of the bottom tier supers more.

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  • I know bungie wanted faster gameplay but now you are rewarded for being a shotgun ape, I used to barely see primaries before this update. Primaries are almost extinct now unless its the eyesluna

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    • The cooldowns may be long, but that is the point. You have to actually participate in combat to get your super. AKA you have to play the game.

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      • Nha its better that way..no more camping for super and on PvE you get it way faster Adapt ,stop crying Stop playing passive and you will be able to get 2 super a game

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        • Hunters were nerfed the hardest. Shatterdive which was expected as well as the gambler dodge from 11 to 18 s on max mobility and removed tracking. Silence and squall is a tier 2 super as well, unlike what the patch notes say.

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          • "An average player, maybe slightly above" also has multiple guilded unbroken titles - considered to be one of the hardest titles in the game.

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            • Bearbeitet von Machine_DNA: 12/20/2021 8:02:55 AM
              I think some of the tier 3’s need to move to tier 2 to be honest and this problem wouldn’t be as bad. It is punishing using these tier 5’s but that’s because they are the most powerful supers. I used spectral when it first came out and was trash but I used it for the wall hacks and that’s got constant uptime. If you’re just picking a sub class for super uptime then yes, best to pick a tier 3.

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            • Right on point for many of the big problems with the latest update. I'd extend your logic to all abilities as well, not just supers. If you want to discuss the "why" behind most of the PvP-centric issues, I think the hard truth boils down to your first line and a remnant of Year 1, which is where you say Bungie has made the game more like space-CoD / Halo. Someone else who commented here eluded to how D2Y1 was molded on Activision's desire for an e-sport compatible PvP experience, and there's a much more clear tell to this in the PvP sandbox. Look at mobility, recovery, and resilience. These three stats which have been in the game since Y1 have almost a negligible effect on PvP because they are severely scaled to unimportance. Compare them to how much of a role Intellect, Discipline, and Strength played on the game, and it's easy to see why so many focused their builds on those three stats. Addressing the "PvP ability spam" problem should have instead focused on the above, or instead should have considered changing competitive rules such that all players have a fixed stat distribution in the mode (IE: Fix all stats to 50 when in a competitive mode). And don't get me started on how these nerfs always bleed over to PvE in a very negative manner. I see the same folk going on about how things are "faster" in PvE, but it's not. If you are basing your opinion on the new content or specialized loadouts, you obviously are ignoring mode modifiers or mechanic which fast-pace your regeneration. Looking at regeneration and damage output as a whole makes it clear as day to see the negative impact these changes are having. All in all, OP is right on point with pretty much everything said here. My only disappointment is that we probably won't see any reversions until WQ given the usual cadence of sandbox delivering updates meaning the second half of this season is going to feel fairly dull gameplay wise on the PvE side of things.

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            • They definitely need to consider reverting the changes, playerbase engagement has been plummeting, I think people are VERY quick to forget how close D2 year one came close to killing the franchise, and it seems almost every crucible match now is back to that, with matches that take way too long and people far too content to hold back and teamshot. Destiny’s gunplay feels great, but with nothing to distinguish itself, players will just look for more interesting competitors. High ability usage might have been grating for some, but it gave the game an identity nothing else had, and sometimes there’s nothing wrong with just dumb fun, not every game has to be balanced and hyper competitive to be appealing, just look at timesplitters, Titanfall 2, Goldeneye, excetra.

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              • This is literally pvp every time you try to engage now

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              • Yeah i couldn't agree more. Really have lost motivation to play since these changes as it just feel meh. I don't think the "ability spam" notion was a thing until stasis abilities, more so the shatterdive. So now their favorite crowd the streamers and their parrots -blam!- every idea or thing they say, Bungie has nerfed all abilities across the board, even hit some classes like Titan the hardest. This is all because of how those guys play trials and then that bleeds into their less skilled followers who try to pull the same thing in trials, cause they watched their idol and it works so they do it too. All bungie had to do was create a playlist that completely disable the abilities, since we all do know out of the playerbase these are the ones they are more keen to try to keep happy. Cooldowns are ridiculous even if you active as you guys in the thread is claiming. Just ran a control match and was overly active the entire time and got one super with 5 min left in the match. Also tried shoulder charge, it sucks and to all those claiming "its an movement ability now" if thats the case...take it off my melee button. I don't wanna press my melee button and get a movement ability.

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                • Please Bungie... Keep this new super change. It's so much better!

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                  • I hate the change because all my armor has too much intellect so i cant run less than 90. I wish we had glass needles because its gonna take awhile to get enough 64+ stat armor with 15 or less intellect to redo my build.

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                    • Bro i agree with you, they have no balls on heavy nerfing hunter, the just nerfed dunemarchers, but what abount stompee that give mobility boost for free without any downsight? Before anyone say ophidian: Ophidian just give handling a reload speed for free which are just good but not broken the game like stompee

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                    • I just wish games today didn’t have so few game modes. I know they don’t want to split the player base or whatever but a non super game mode would be fun.

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                    • It is just another play their way move. Nothing new in that. They have now custom tuned the sweat levels of crucible to their desired settings.

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                      • I swear who ever made these changes has poo for brains. The worst players will now be dominated by the best getting abilities and supers back asap

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                      • I think the tiers as an idea are fine, the slowest one should be 7-8 minutes though not 11. This current system is clearly not working though

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                        • The supers aren’t the only problem all of the changes are they wanted to get rid of so many ability uses and now all you see is nothing but abilities after abilities cause everyone just using the quickest cool downs it’s made pvp garbage.

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                        • Agreed. PvP balance ruining what Destiny should be. Space magic with guns on the side. But the issues of this debacle run deep. For 7 or so years, Activation had a huge say on what goes on in this game, right down to how it was moulded. So for all intense purposes since they own esports, they would push for changes that would focus making PvP Esports worthy. Which means we had the disaster of D2Y1. Including a faction within Bungie who goals aligned with such things. The beta should have told me everything I needed to know and I felt like I should have never brought D2 but I love Destiny and my friends were going to play it w/o me. So I did end up buying it and in one word at the end of finishing the content, it would be ''Vapid''. Because everything was tuned for PvP, leaving but a wasteland for PvE. Not to mention there are Loyal fans to Halo and stuck with Bungie when they moved away from Msoft. So they would have it in their interests and agenda to push for a similar play experience that they loved and Bungie did do in the past. The root of the problem is that Destiny is space magic game but the guns feel top quality to control. Which is why shooter gamers reject sun-setting because they fear losing a feeling of any and all certain guns they happen to enjoy using. But that is another story really. Ever since Shadowkeep launched and they where free from Activision, only then slowly but surely have they begun to chip and break away from the mould that Activision had made but it is clear there is still alot of work to do. They have gotten better at separating changes between the two sandboxes but the some foundational pillars of old still remain and cause hiccups like we have for or the super changes just made. It is ''Hopefully'' just a matter of patience. Which Queen has to do something that will shake the foundation of the game because in that time of February, It'll be facing fierce competition...

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                        • Mayhem is unplayable now (even more than before) since Blade Barrage and Silence and Squall have the second-fastest cooldowns in the game. For every one Dawnblade I was getting, my enemies were getting two BB's and SS's.

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                          • Lmao this change is horrible in pve 😂 Waiting a whole Harmony out in Blind Well and just barely getting your super 😂

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                          • I love how super-o-clock being fixed just means that Destiny, despite everything it does different, is just CoD or Halo now. Not all feedback should be considered important. This is a perfect example of that.

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                            • I still get 2 supers a game weird.

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                              • agreed its forcing you to choose supers that you will get faster because a tier one super you get that with playing ago barely in a trials map on round 9

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                              • Bearbeitet von Haters: 12/18/2021 11:43:09 PM
                                Yeah my Warlock Well is super useful in trials. It’s a guaranteed win if I pop it in round. Lulz. You a fool. Super changes are fine. Offensive supers are offensive and have cooldowns reflecting that.

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                                • Bearbeitet von Zer0Warri0r: 12/18/2021 11:07:27 PM
                                  Supers are instant win buttons and im glad people can no longer spam them in the crucible. You complain about bubble being removed from sentinel, but if they get separated it will most likely mean bubble will become a T1-2 super. Lets also be honest and say that being able to make you and your team basically invincible and give your team ground control any time any where is already strong enough even without the option to also be able to have instant kill melees and tracking shield throws that ric off other people; while also having so much DR you need heavy or a counter super to kill you. Also comparing Destiny to CoD or Halo is f**king bulls*it and stupid. Destiny without super spam is still very far from Halo or Cod. In Halo infi all Spartans are the same when they spawn in and they need to fine equipment in the map to alter themselves from anyone else that just spawned. In Destiny every class spawns in with a different class ability and they can never change it only what that ability does, but a hunter will never be able to drop a rift for example. Thirdly increasing the time it takes to get super back isnt artificially increasing the difficulty at least with how things work in D2. They said they wanted to lean more heavily into build crafting and to do that you also need to make abilities not as free anymore without a proper build. You can build into super energy in a variety of ways if you absolutely need your super really often assuming also that you dont have a rally flag to give it to you before you start an encounter. As for pvp personally I would lock everyone to only one super max in completive play anyway, but I guess that would be a lot harder than simply decreasing the regen rate and increasing the time it takes to get a super.

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