Your entire arguement hinges on the assumption that CBMM isn't fair, when it is. You loaded into an environment where you play against other people at random.
It's the same thing if you enter a casual chess club and get paired with a random partner. Should they give you a second queen just to compensate for your lack of skill?
How about if you go to the park and take turns playing basketball 1v1? Do you expect them to widen your hoop to compensate for your lack of skill there?
I sure hope not.
Now is it fun matching someone at ten times your level? No, but it isn't fun matching people who are only your level and lagging around either.
[i]Strict[/i] SBMM is not the answer. As much as some players want it, you cannot cater to the part of the playerbase that plays the least while simultaneously damaging the experience of those that play the most. That's what [i]strict[/i] SBMM does.
People say they want SBMMso they can improve. Well, as much as people want to say it does, [i]strict[/i] SBMM like we had last season doesn't help people improve either. If the search criteria is so strict the variance of skill in any one match becomes really low, any single player no longer has to improve aim, movement, awareness, etc. in order to consistently perform well within those environments. Most people measure skill by the after match results and [i]strict[/i] SBMM will show them results that indicate they don't need to improve. [i]Strict[/i] SBMM doesn't provide the desire to improve or the competition to drive someone to improve. That's just a fact.
[i]Strict[/i] SBMM just has so many downsides so many people see that it just isn't worth it.
Now I'm all for giving SBMM another shot if its search criteria is loose enough so that matchmaking is somewhere in between last season and this one, but all this talk of bringing back SBMM like that of last season is just ridiculous.
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And people can improve by being mercy ruled every match by being stomped on by teams they should have never matched in the first place. Do they match Pro sports teams against peewee teams? No. Just because you want a way to farm stats and inflate your ego doesnt mean thats whats best. Crucible numbers are at some of their lowest this game has seen. That alone speaks for how shit crucible has become without SBMM
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Well that's not true at all. But go on. Keep making invalid assumptions if it makes you feel better.
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The only thing i said that could have been an assumption is the comment about your ego. Everything else i said was a fact.
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You also said that player counts were some of the lowest this game has seen. Sorry. Flat out wrong. This game has had player PvP counts at less than 300K. It's close to 500K right now at 10 a.m. CST on a Monday. Wait for the rest of that day and more than likely that number will go up significantly as more unique players log in. Destiny Tracker tracked over 800K players yesterday. Well above historical numbers, especially last season.
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Lol for PvP that is low. Not to mention youre fudging numbers a bit my guy. Youre giving combined numbers of pvp and pve. Pvp numbers for yestersay werent even half of 800k. That 800k was for the entire playerbase in every activity. Not just PvP.
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That 800K includes Gambit and other PvP activities. It is skewed in that regard. 474K is the current population in only Crucible playlists. Crucible playlists have been well below 300K in the past, even below 200K in vanilla D2. That's fact. 474K is actually above average. But you won't say that because it doesn't fit your narrative.
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[quote]Now I'm all for giving SBMM another shot if its search criteria is loose enough so that matchmaking is somewhere in between last season and this one, but all this talk of bringing back SBMM like that of last season is just ridiculous.[/quote] I'm not talking about replacing CBMM with SBMM. I want one SBMM playlist that isn't Elimination or Survival. [quote]Your entire arguement hinges on the assumption that CBMM isn't fair, when it is. You loaded into an environment where you play against other people at random. It's the same thing if you enter a casual chess club and get paired with a random partner. Should they give you a second queen just to compensate for your lack of skill? How about if you go to the park and take turns playing basketball 1v1? Do you expect them to widen your hoop to compensate for your lack of skill there? [/quote] I'm not asking for handicap. I'm asking for one playlist to play chess players of people at my skill level. I'm asking to be able to go to the park and not have to choose between entering a competitive basketball tournament or be stuck playing LeBron James in quickplay. [quote]People say they want SBMM so they can improve. Well, as much as people want to say it does, strict SBMM like we had last season doesn't help people improve either.[/quote] You don't improve from getting your teeth kicked in either. The only thing you learn is that you'd rather play something else.
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If they dont understamd that you dont learn or get better by getting skunked every match the conversation isnt worth continuing my guy. Dude is clearly on of the high skilled players thats benefitting from doing the teeth kicking. Hes not going to agree with you. All we can do is let crucible continue to die so its nothing but sweats playing sweats again so we can say we told ya so
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You are choosing a handicap. You're going to the park, saying "Hey. I wanna play. I'll be next.", and then not wanting to play against anyone that's better than you. That's what strict SBMM does. That's a handicap. At the very least, it's an artificial environment designed to make you feel good about yourself. As for your other point, that's right. You don't learn by facing people so far above you you can't compete. (Even though that's relative. Below average players get stomped by guys with 0.8 K/Ds and a bronze ELO and label them as "Top 1%" all the time on these forums.) So pure CBMM isn't the answer, as it never has been, and strict SBMM isn't the answer, as it never has been. But CBMM has much fewer drawbacks and benefits the part of the playerbase that plays the most, players of average skill and up. And the for the talk about bringing SBMM back, that wasn't necessarily directed at you. More so the people in the replies. It wouldn't be a bad thing if there was a SBMM control/clash playlist, but it would have to be off to the side and would have to have some sort of restrictions on it otherwise we'd be in the exact same situation we were in last season. All the below average players go to the SBMM playlist, making the average players either die to better players or follow into SBMM. Then the playerbase is split and PvP numbers drop again, which only makes it worse. I get where you're coming from, but splitting the playerbase is not the answer. They did that last season and PvP tanked hard. But in all honestly, the SBMM vs CBMM debate is useless until Bungie addresses one major problem: stacked teams and how they skew lobby balancing. Teams have ruined matchmaking and lobby balancing since the beginning. SBMM, CBMM, doesn't matter. They affected both.
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So which skill level of player is allowed to have fun, or rather, which skill level is more important in the context of “having fun”?
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Neither? Hence why I said that neither strict SBMM or CBMM were the answer.
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You use a lot of words, otherwise I would ask you what your point is\was\will be. You offer no alternatives, but I respect you, man, I respect you.
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I literally offered an alternative in my original post if you the last paragraph. I also say in a reply in this very post that the first thing Bungie needs to do is deal with stacked teams skewing lobby balancing.
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Bearbeitet von WinningCello280: 7/11/2020 4:19:25 AMMan, I told you, I respect you, okay? If there was a suggestion that you made that was not reiterating that there was a problem, that would not change that. Let’s just say it together, in unison. “The developer does not care about a level playing field, otherwise the alleged rampant cheating problem would not exist”...followed by...”the removal of SBMM had nothing to do with the end user experience in that regard”...and then we say...”removal of SBMM has improved load times which likely coincided with stability of the backstage infrastructure”...and then we say....”this stability likely led to stark increase in participation in the first Iron Banner event this season, and the more participation, the better their usage metrics”...and end it with...”I don’t know about you, but since SBMM was removed from the most popular PvP game modes, I have not been kicked by one weasel, canary, or other dumb animal named error code yet this season” As long as we keep playing, it doesn’t matter how much we complain to the developer. Now look at all the damn words I just used. See? You. I’m just like you. Have to respect you.
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He never said he didn't want to play against people who are better than you. You improve when you play against players who are better than you, but the skill gap between the two players isn't so high. You don't learn anything by getting stomped by someone with a 4.0 kd when your kd is only at 1.2.
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And you don't learn anything as a 0.6 fighting 0.6 or even a 0.62. That's what strict SBMM does. That's what SBMM did last season. So unless he suggested a brand new set of SBMM with a looser set of search criteria, I'd say it's fairly reasonable to infer that he's suggesting the same system as last season.
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Handicap Definition: [quote]a disadvantage imposed on a superior competitor in sports such as golf, horse racing, and competitive sailing in order to make the chances more equal[/quote] So technically no, I wouldn't call it a handicap. It would be a handicap if we gave everyone at a higher skill level less powerful guns. I think someone in a reply somewhere actually suggested that (or giving a boost to lower players), but I disagree with that. I want to have choices in my opponents, not force a disadvantage on them or give myself an advantage. Some intramural sports leagues at universities can have different classes or tiers. If you have a certain amount of skill or experience you are put in higher tiers, so that people who are low skill can have a chance to learn and play without people way above them dominating the game.
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Well then refer to the "at the very least" part of my reply. But that isn't the point. The point is strict SBMM never has and never will solve anything. CBMM hasn't either, but it has less drawbacks. Bungie either just needs to consolidate the playlsits into ranked and non-ranked playlists and then let players select their matchmaking styles for non-ranked, or use a form of CBMM that accounts for outliers in skill (so like a CBMM/SBMM hybrid). But before any of that, the whole "stacked team" thing has to he addressed. That's an issue that plagues SBMM and CBMM.