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Bearbeitet von LolP2Pnetworking: 4/4/2019 6:30:57 PM
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A New Approach to Loot

TLDR: Current loot system sucks. Changes needed so pve is actually fun. Right now we've got a supposed loot grinder that's really heavy on the grinder but light as hell on the loot. Numbered list of suggestions below wall of text. ____________________________________________ The main reason people feel unrewarded for their time is because most of the drops from the game don't feel impactful, and how uncommon it is to actually get legendaries and exotics which even then don't feel like a big deal. Besides that rare moment of excitement seeing a yellow engram drop, only to find it's a duplicate of something not worth using, new loot is almost never exciting. The disconnect from the wording of activity rewards and the actual value of the rewards is stark. For example, doing a public event and getting a chance at "rare gear" isn't rare at all--blues drop often and they aren't even remotely worth wearing outside of sub-level 50. Another example: killing high-value targets and reading the message, "A high-value target has dropped its plunder," only to get 100 glimmer and 2 dusklight shards. Plunder? It feels like being the butt of an inside joke by Bungie. The only reason people even do stuff like public events, regular strikes or heroic story missions anymore is because doing X of them will give a powerful engram. Even that often feels unrewarding because it's usually just a minor boost in light level and otherwise of no value, despite being legendary gear. I do like the concept of random rolls on gear, but a lot of the perks are terrible (e.g. primary ammo finder, air assault) or don't seem to even do anything (e.g. unflinching sniper aim, heavy ammo finder). This makes it almost impossible to acquire a full set of gear with complementary perks, let alone having multiple good sets of gear. And then there are exotics. A lot of them actually aren't that good. Most weapons aren't worth taking up the one-exotic limit because of the handful of truly powerful, exotic weapons that you would miss out on being able to use. Even if you aren't seeking to use "meta" weapons, the amount of fun, unique and powerful-feeling exotic weapons is small. Exotic armor isn't much different. Even ones with intriguing-sounding perks and seemingly unique functions often suck and feel no different from not having exotic armor on at all. The low drop rates of exotics, combined with time-gated loot drops, the large amount of bad exotics, the large amount of bad perks on legendaries and the majority of drops being blues, the player is left feeling let down almost every single time they get a drop. Once in a while you might get a powerful engram that's a weapon you want, and for a moment feel hope, only to see you got a sniper rifle with hip-fire grip and extended mag (which often doesn't even increase mag size). I've got a handful of suggestions to make loot almost always valuable, so then the player would actually feel like their time is worth being spent playing. 1. Blues shouldn't drop after level 50 or be an activity reward at all. 2. The perk pool for both weapons and armor should be combed through, with bad perks or bad perk pairings being removed entirely (e.g. remove stuff like air assault entirely, hip-fire grip should never be on precision weapons, snapshot sights should never accompany hip-fire grip, outlaw should never accompany drop mag, etc.). 3. Buff potentially useful perks that underperform (e.g. hipfire grip on SMGs or auto rifles should actually make them relatively accurate when not aiming down sights, headseeker should actually function like the perk is worded, high-impact reserves should make the bottom of a mag genuinely powerful, etc.). 4. List the actual numerical values for all weapon stats and perks so the player knows exactly what they're getting and can tell if a weapon or perk isn't working correctly. 5. Increase the drop chance of legendary gear. 6. Tweak exotic perks so virtually every exotic is worth using and would be worth building the rest of your gear around. 7. Release catalysts for every exotic weapon. With those changes, pretty much every time an item dropped the player would actually feel rewarded, their time spent would feel justified, and there'd be actual excitement checking out perks on fresh drops. Every drop could be useful, or at minimum could be put in the vault for use later on when complementary drops are acquired. Players could actually build multiple, useful sets of gear with "themes" that make pieces of armor and weapons complement each other. Exotics would always be exciting to get and actually mean something, not just be glorified legendaries. Players would actually look forward to pve activities instead of feeling like they're just working a second job. There'd be genuine replay value to every activity in the game. I doubt there'll be substantial changes for Destiny 2, but hopefully Bungie could leave a reply that they're aiming to implement a more rewarding and exciting loot system for Destiny 3, if not before then.

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  • Bump.

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    • Bump.

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      • Division 2 loot is good, borderlands loot is good, diablo 3 loot is good, anthem loot is good lol.

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      • Upvoted. #6...I wish I could upvote it 100 times.

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        • What if they made nightfall weapons tied to bounties what u obtain from Zavala for example and make u do stuff in that specific strike to unlock weapon as reward like how get new pinacle weapons

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          • One of bungies main issues is they either go too extreme or too casual with the grind. Things would be much better if they found a perfect balance like they managed in d1.

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          • Just wait till 9.13.19... BL3 .. even though Destiny has better gun play feel .. that’s a fun looter shooter.. I sincerely hope bungie answers back with something amazing... I root for this game to succeed.

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            • I came here looking for loot, and instead got a wall of text. Oh well let me grab my reading glasses.

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              • Thank you for your feed back. We are listening and as such we will make these changes. It will only cost 100 cores to apply exotic catalysts. Love, Bungie

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                • Actually, I get overloaded with legendaries and loot in general. To the point that it becomes a chore even just blindly deleting them, even more so if you actually think about keeping them. I wish there was a way to reroll them or grind to unlock the perks you want.

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                  • Agreed and agreed! Another thing that annoys the hell out of me is the dependency of lucky to almost anything in this game. The game is so RNG dependent, that I never feel that I'm being rewarded for my efforts. Take that as an example: I'm trying right now to get an specific roll for Service Revolver. I've already delivered 4k tokens to Zavala to only get 3 meh rolls, not even near the one I wanted. One of my clan mates got the exactly roll I was looking for in hist 4th package, and he has 7 or 8 SR right now. I'm not saying he didn't deserve the god roll, I'm just saying that my efforts to get it are turned to dust every time that I open a package and get another Nightshade (I hate pulse rifles sorry). Speaking the truth, I'm investing less and less time in Destiny, and I can see myself leaving the game in a short time if it keeps the way it. The only thing that keeps me playing right now is the lore, but not even that worth the time or the money anymore. Every time I log in, spend a hour or so, I can't help to think: "Man, this game is dying and I won't be here to bury it".

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                    • Agreed on multiple fronts. 1) Catalysts - Why do Whisper and Sleeper, two already amazing (amazing enough to be nerfed and still great) weapons have catalysts, but the "cover weapon"/main storyline exotic quest of Forsaken (Ace of Spades) doesn't? Why does Legend of Acrius have one, but 1K Voices and Anarchy don't (*insert "because they don't exist" meme here*)? Why no catalyst for the Gambit pinnacle exotic, Malfeasance?Catalysts are a really cool addition to the game, but are mostly wasted since you both need to have the gun and want to use it for them to matter, and there are so few out there. 2) Exotic design is allllllllll over the place. A gun like Malfeasance feels really well-balanced; it tears sh*t up in Gambit activities, and is just a "good" cannon in regular PvE. TLW is great in Crucible, okay in PvE. What am I using Sunshot for where something else wouldn't be better? Where am I using half the worthless Warlock exotic armor pieces? The issue with exotics isn't always just that they can be underwhelming; it's that they ALSO waste the all-important exotic slot. I can justify running Sunshot for fun, but I'm not going to use it under most "serious" circumstances. So getting a "rare" exotic drop can be extra underwhelming due to that fact. It's inevitable that certain weapons will be the meta for certain activities, but you shouldn't be able to waste your exotic slot on a weapon and have it be basically entirely useless (within reason; if you need a sniper and equip a shotgun, that's a different issue). 3) A lot of the perks are just crap. There should be better and worse perks, but not completely useless ones (like bow reloader, a personal favorite). Even lesser perks should be decent, and within certain playstyles should work well. But it sucks to ruin a weapon with perks that just make no sense.

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                      • $10 for every Edge Transit? Automatically bought every time you log in? Sounds good to me.

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                      • Bearbeitet von DragonPhoenix78: 4/5/2019 6:57:44 AM
                        How bout legendary variety armor that's part of no sets, random pieces of armor. That would change things up a bit. Mixing the armor sets is just boring.

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                        • 1. idk why people complain about duplicates. i have not once gotten a duplicate just saying. i think people are lying when they say that your 90% guaranteed a new item you haven't gotten before when an exotic drops. 2. legendaries aren't rare. infact I would say they are waaaay to common. 3. Public events used to drop exotics and legendaries do you wanna go back to that system? public events aren't suppose to give anything above rare and if it does your very lucky. 4. I agree on that. 5. I don't think exotic drop rate is the problem I think the fact that activites don't reward exotic loot is the problem. your more likely to find random exotics while killing enemies than spending hours in a raid and only getting a few legendaries. Nightfalls were exciting in destiny 1 because you could literally get ANYTHING in them. make nightfalls like that again. Also ending a raid ind estiny 1 and getting an exotic was also mega hype add that back as well. you should have a 50/50 chance of getting an exotic from running a raid. 6. I agree with most of your points and I think the real problem is the loot system. when a new expansion drops I shouldn't be taking off my legendary armor for blues... that doesn't make ANY sense. its been like that sense the taken king and its extremely annoying. theirs no point in being 690 light and grinding away to 700 if in the new update within an hour you will be at the same place you would have been if wasting your time grinding to 700... I would like a expanded leveling system of what we had in vanilla destiny 1.

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                          • You have one thing really wrong: you love the game as it is and need a reason to play more. The fact is 95% of the players don’t like the game as it is and no loot or rng twist is going to help. I hope bungie stops listening to your type of profile again or they are forever done.

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                          • I love this idea. I have one where light level and armor aren't tied together. Your light grows the more you play and the harder the enemies and activities are. If you are light 750 and the activity is 800 you get light, and loot at that contents level. Loot drops without random rolls, but still has recovery, resilience, agility set. Dismantle loot give you parts and glimmer that you could use to buy one of 300 mods to put on your loot. You have five mod slots, perks and mods are the same now, and mods are removable at no cost to you. This gives you more control over your mods, and play style. You won't have to wait for a helmet to drop for your light to go up because light isn't tied to your loot.

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                            • “Remove hip fire grip on precision weapons” thank god somebody said it. I’m so sick of getting Does Not Compute with hip fire grip and moving target. HFG is 100% useless.

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                              • A New Approach to Loot: Distribute some loot

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                              • You gave this a lot of thought, however, Bungie likes frustrating players. There's no point in more loot if we don't have a chance to use said loot. Bungie needs to remove cores from infusion so we can have multiple builds -- other than than that, more loot is just loot that will get replaced anyway, no matter how good it is.

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                                • So you just want everything handed to you.

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                                • I gotta disagree with you about the perks. You need the bad perks to outline the god rolls then you'll just only see small little differences between rolls then. Instead of removing perks, they need to add more unique and powerful perks like they did with this season

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                                  • some more changes 1. ada sells all weapon frames as well as weapon mods from black armory 2. all last wish raid armor mods drop with gambit prime 3. copy and past code from leviathan vendor to a last wish raid vendor and swap items accordingly 4. add thousand voices to a triumph raid completions, 15 completions reward 1k voices (retroactive) 5. banshee sells all open world armor and weapon mods that are traded for weapon telemetries 6. dreaming city now has 5 spawn points instead of 1 to make doing daily challenges and bounties more viable. 7.dreaming city powerful drops now included in possible drops from chest and public events in dreaming city. 8. masterwork cores now added for daily account logins similar to warframe. 9. treasure hunter shells now give you 5 resources per chest instead of 2 10. add powerful xur bounties that allow a character to earn 2 exotics per week per character. 11. add 3 other bounties that reward tokens that allow you to unlock an item from collections. (ex: 10 tokens = 1 item) you could always tweak the system a bit. instead of the exotics being exceptionally hard to get how about we tie them to our friendly tentacle friend. there's quite a few people who are switching from console to computer but don't want to lose a lot of their stuff. how about instead we make a path that would allow players to obtain the gear they had on console in a sensible amount of time.

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                                    • [quote]TLDR: Current loot system sucks. Changes needed so pve is actually fun. Right now we've got a supposed loot grinder that's really heavy on the grinder but light as hell on the loot. Numbered list of suggestions below wall of text. ____________________________________________ The main reason people feel unrewarded for their time is because most of the drops from the game don't feel impactful, and how uncommon it is to actually get legendaries and exotics which even then don't feel like a big deal. Besides that rare moment of excitement seeing a yellow engram drop, only to find it's a duplicate of something not worth using, new loot is almost never exciting. The disconnect from the wording of activity rewards and the actual value of the rewards is stark. For example, doing a public event and getting a chance at "rare gear" isn't rare at all--blues drop often and they aren't even remotely worth wearing outside of sub-level 50. Another example: killing high-value targets and reading the message, "A high-value target has dropped its plunder," only to get 100 glimmer and 2 dusklight shards. Plunder? It feels like being the butt of an inside joke by Bungie. The only reason people even do stuff like public events, regular strikes or heroic story missions anymore is because doing X of them will give a powerful engram. Even that often feels unrewarding because it's usually just a minor boost in light level and otherwise of no value, despite being legendary gear. I do like the concept of random rolls on gear, but a lot of the perks are terrible (e.g. primary ammo finder, air assault) or don't seem to even do anything (e.g. unflinching sniper aim, heavy ammo finder). This makes it almost impossible to acquire a full set of gear with complementary perks, let alone having multiple good sets of gear. And then there are exotics. A lot of them actually aren't that good. Most weapons aren't worth taking up the one-exotic limit because of the handful of truly powerful, exotic weapons that you would miss out on being able to use. Even if you aren't seeking to use "meta" weapons, the amount of fun, unique and powerful-feeling exotic weapons is small. Exotic armor isn't much different. Even ones with intriguing-sounding perks and seemingly unique functions often suck and feel no different from not having exotic armor on at all. The low drop rates of exotics, combined with time-gated loot drops, the large amount of bad exotics, the large amount of bad perks on legendaries and the majority of drops being blues, the player is left feeling let down almost every single time they get a drop. Once in a while you might get a powerful engram that's a weapon you want, and for a moment feel hope, only to see you got a sniper rifle with hip-fire grip and extended mag (which often doesn't even increase mag size). I've got a handful of suggestions to make loot almost always valuable, so then the player would actually feel like their time is worth being spent playing. 1. Blues shouldn't drop after level 50 or be an activity reward at all. 2. The perk pool for both weapons and armor should be combed through, with bad perks or bad perk pairings being removed entirely (e.g. remove stuff like air assault entirely, hip-fire grip should never be on precision weapons, snapshot sights should never accompany hip-fire grip, outlaw should never accompany drop mag, etc.). 3. Buff potentially useful perks that underperform (e.g. hipfire grip on SMGs or auto rifles should actually make them relatively accurate when not aiming down sights, headseeker should actually function like the perk is worded, high-impact reserves should make the bottom of a mag genuinely powerful, etc.). 4. List the actual numerical values for all weapon stats and perks so the player knows exactly what they're getting and can tell if a weapon or perk isn't working correctly. 5. Increase the drop chance of legendary gear. 6. Tweak exotic perks so virtually every exotic is worth using and would be worth building the rest of your gear around. 7. Release catalysts for every exotic weapon. With those changes, pretty much every time an item dropped the player would actually feel rewarded, their time spent would feel justified, and there'd be actual excitement checking out perks on fresh drops. Every drop could be useful, or at minimum could be put in the vault for use later on when complementary drops are acquired. Players could actually build multiple, useful sets of gear with "themes" that make pieces of armor and weapons complement each other. Exotics would always be exciting to get and actually mean something, not just be glorified legendaries. Players would actually look forward to pve activities instead of feeling like they're just working a second job. There'd be genuine replay value to every activity in the game. I doubt there'll be substantial changes for Destiny 2, but hopefully Bungie could leave a reply that they're aiming to implement a more rewarding and exciting loot system for Destiny 3, if not before then.[/quote] I have a question, why is it friends and myself grind forever for gear and weapons that rarely drop and one person I play with that dies 25 times more than the rest of us combined is always given the stuff we are looking for after just a couple of runs?? Is that something put in place to keep less experienced players interested in playing so they don’t give up in frustration??

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                                      • Bearbeitet von Nerfs are Needed: 4/4/2019 7:33:33 PM
                                        Double post.

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                                      • You need crap loot like blues, those are major sources of glimmer,weapon parts,and can drop scrapper bounties and mod components. Just like you need bad legendary rolled weapons/armor for legendary shards,cores, and scrapper bounties.

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