As a day 1 guardian from D1, this just makes me sad. They've confirmed our worst fears that they have turned their backs on their most loyal and dedicated players for the sake of milking cash from the casual audience. In the name of 'accessibility' they gutted any depth, power fantasy, and uniqueness in their game. And it didn't even pay off, most of these casual players have gone off to CoD: WW2 or AC: Origins etc. and they won't be coming back for DLC's. All the issues we've had with this game were proved to be intentional and at this point many of them are fundamental aspects of the game that cannot be changed (not that the ego's at bungie would change it as that would admit they're wrong). Taking away powerful guns for the crucible? restricting old special weapons to the power slot and making cooldowns awfully slow to make them "potent"? wanting increased viewers on twitch (currently similar viewers than Dark souls which came out in 2011 lol). They've killed all the fun in their game for PvP, eSports pipe dreams, and to fleece casual gamers who have already pissed off. They alienated the hardcore players, the ones who kept their game alive for 3 years and defended them and their game when these same casuals would call it crap or boring. And they repay us by leaving us behind to appease to those who never loved them in D1 and still don't love them now. This podcast just proves they aren't going to change which makes me sad because at it's core, I love Destiny. I love the gunplay, the setting, the lore, and no other game scratched the sci-fi/FPS/RPG itch quite like it. But the design philosophies begind D2 have killed to the point where less players are logging in now than the lowest points of RoI. It's done lads, Destiny is dead and gone and I dunno if these guys are capable or even wanting to bring it back.

[quote][Edit 2: [b]For the people blaming "Crucible guys" for the mess we're in just stop. Please just stop. I blame Bungie's inability to patch pve and pvp separately. But as you can see they are catering to the casual audience not [i]"CRUCIBLE GUYS"[/i]. You're throwing your discontent to the wrong people.[/b][/quote] I think we can all agree that the unwillingness to separate PvP and PvE is the primary culprit here, but beyond that it is [b]100% legitimate[/b] to lay the blame for the changes at the feet of "CRUCIBLE GUYS". Because when JW talks about casuals players, he is specifically talking about casual CRUCIBLE players. Consider the nature of the changes. In PvE, players are still getting instant killed by Cabal drop pods. A missle barrage from a Thresher can kill a player before they can react. The Nightfall boss can two-shot. The changes to TTK are specifically intended to make the game easier for new PvP players. They are not reflected in PvE at all. The attunements, cool downs, and economy are much the same. Consider a couple of popular PvE games: The Witcher 3, Skyrim, Borderlands 2. These games have talent and progression systems an order of magnitude more complicated than anything Destiny has ever had. And they have plenty of casual fans. Learning to navigating those systems is a fundamental element of PvE gameplay, and no PvE player, no matter how casual, resented them. You know who did? The people who just wanted to run around and shoot other players with guns. So, in a effort to make PvP more appealing to those players, they deliberately gutted major elements of the PvE experience. In fact, consider the list as a whole. Longer cool downs, 4v4 e-sports style matches, all the changes intended to make PvP easier to balance or more interesting to watch on Twitch... They spent a huge amount of effort tweaking the Crucible experience. There is not one change on the list where they even consider PvE gameplay. It's simply not a priority. The conclusion is inevitable. PvE gameplay was interfering with the Crucible experience, so PvE had to be sacrificed. Yet again.

Hat ein neues Thema gestartet: Jon Weisnewski Needs to be stopped (CR reply)(74 Antworten))

What I took from the entire podcast is that Bungies reasoning behind a lot of these changes is they want to give the player these experiences that they’ve built into the game with no input or personalisation on the players part. In the podcast they talked about, in relation to the subclass trees, the power fantasy of arcstrider as an example, and how the super and subclasses are built around emulating a “Street Fighter” style power fantasy, and how they want each subclass to fulfill a specific power fantasy. Which in a strange way is commendable. However, people don’t play any style of rpg games for the developers ideas of power fantasy, they play them for their OWN idea of a power fantasy. So limiting the skill trees to what the developers feel is a coherent, synergistic build is a misstep. So many statements in the podcast are contradictory though. In one segment they talk about having super powerful moments less often, supers, grenades, melee, power ammo and such, makes them a more potent experience. And then in another segment they talk about not wanting to have players have to grind and grind for exotics or powerful gear because it’s offputting. Surely it’s the same concept right? They don’t want to give you access to powerful weapons all the time, supposedly because of the Law of Diminishing Returns where the more you have the less potent the experience becomes. But they still go ahead and give you all the best gear in the game with minimal effort? It just seems like a totally incoherent and directionless thought/development process to me.

[quote]- Sunshot = Firefly (too bad they had to take it away from Legendaries)[/quote] IT's called Dragon Fly on legendary weapons. It exists and some guns have it.

PVP isn't perfect, but it has a way better foundation to build up from. Destiny 1 Crucible was a damn mess. Shotgun sliders, unbalanced supers, overpowered exotics, the list goes on. The Heavy ammo has been dealt with far better, it drops in more often but much less. It stops the whole map from turning into a carpeting bombing, where the winning team of the heavy duel continues to bulldoze the map with their 7 rockets (each!). That was a terribly implemented feature that they fixed. Crucible is now a place where players actually have to work on their gun-play. Yes, that's right. you can't hide behind your Rocket launchers, Shotguns, and Supers; players have to actually shoot to get kills. Ability usage feels more meaningful, instead of being a crutch. It's more entertaining to watch because people who have good gun-play and tactics are far more satisfying to watch. Being good in Destiny 1 just required exploring all the right equipment, which was lazy and predictable. Destiny 2's crucible lack verity. They have flattened the playing field by removing all of the 1-hit kill abilities. Which I don't think was necessary. Sticky grenades, Shoulder Charge, Throwing Knifes, are good examples of things that could be 1 hit. Sticky grenades are a complete redundancy otherwise, Shoulder charge has a large cool-down now, and Throwing knife head-shots require a lot of skill to land. My point is, Crucible in Destiny 1 was broken and unrepairable. You can't take things away from it without triggering the community. Whereas this time, although it isn't perfect, it is easy to build on it and adjust it. It is in a good place to be modified, and that would be their intention.

[quote][b]First I would like to say that I didn't write any of this, turboash78 in reddit wrote this down and credit goes to him. I didn't find any mention of this here and wanted the people who use bnet to know this useful information.[/b] [b]turboash78:[/b] So in this week's CR Podcast they talk to Mr.W about many of the design and gameplay philosophies that went into D2. Nuggets: - Sunshot = Firefly (too bad they had to take it away from Legendaries) - purposely reduced our access to high powered weapons to make the Crucible and the whole game better (wat) - moving secondaries to the power slot sucks but makes those moments more "potent" - focus on combined weapon loadout vs single-weapon-focused loadout - nerfing of cooldowns supposed to increase potency of the moments when you get to use them - slowing down TTK helps us decide what we should do at that moment (thanks!) - wanted to make PvP more exciting to watch on Twitch (I nearly spit out my coffee at this one) - team shooting doesn't put stress on us to land shots (lol holy shit at this one) - Wardcliff coil was supposed to be in D1 but it didn't have the proper launch platform - random to fixed rolls: random rolls too difficult to talk about with friends (no... seriously), fixed rolls better for casuals - players get items quickly and easily on purpose: for casuals and to attract new players to the game, tough shit for people who want to grind - random rolls too complicated to balance in PvP, goal to make fewer guns but spend more time on them and make them have their own identity/role (valid argument IMO, and I loved random rolls) - subclass set paths easier for us!!! "advanced players" pair their subclass with Exotics (= "depth") - "the depth is still there" (coffee spit-take somehow avoided) - ricochet rounds greatly help range - intrinsic weapon perks taken directly from D1 (Lightweight = lightweight, Rapid = spray and play, Precision = counterbalance, Aggressive = high caliber rounds) - high caliber rounds flinch greatly multiplied if you/your opponent is moving and is also scaled by weapon damage - every weapon has a degree of hcr (affecting both outgoing and incoming flinch) I recommend giving it a listen. Crucible Radio Ep. 126: https://t.co/YkjfcT4kOo I recommend listening to it if you have time. turboash78's reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/7f1e71/crucible_radio_ep_126_ft_jon_weisnewski/ Edit 1: [b]I'm glad I was able to inform the people who use Bungie forums about this information. From what I've seen most of the community doesn't like this 180 which Bungie has done. I however thank Jon for his honesty because the people who were meant to speak up [i]"community managers"[/i] clearly were too scared to say anything abut this. I however am very disappointed, the one game which I took serious for 3 years has been turned into a casual fest, they were so worried and focused on new players they forgot about the people who never gave up on them and this is what we get?! Really?![/b] Edit 2: [b]For the people blaming "Crucible guys" for the mess we're in just stop. Please just stop. I blame Bungie's inability to patch pve and pvp separately. But as you can see they are catering to the casual audience not [i]"CRUCIBLE GUYS"[/i]. You're throwing your discontent to the wrong people.[/b] Edit 3: Thanks for the 400[/quote] Great information on the fall of Destiny Bungie Senior leadership should be ashamed. Anthem will Immediately drive the final nails if they don’t return the glory of D1 !

These guys need to move on. They need to move on and let the live team fully take over. Which they haven't. The inside word is the development team standing in the way of the live team making positive changes

[b]"nerfing of cooldowns supposed to increase potency of the moments when you get to use them"[/b] ..........................A sticky grenade that can barely take off a shield and a shoulder-charge that can't even take off half of a player's health is supposed to be "increased potency"? This guy's supposed to be the senior gameplay designer? Wouldn't that require you to have played the game at least once in your life?