Well this proves my belief that a vast majority of the community is shotgun rush. Just an FYI to everyone. Shotguns are still generating the same percentage of kills as top preforming primary weapons in this "sniper meta" in every game type that isn't trials.
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Your a sniper zombie aren't you :p
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Nope I use fusion rifles.
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shotguns form around half the kills in most lists than the usual 3 top primaries. however the 1k stare is usually close to the top or between the top 3 primaries. Only rumble is different due to the game style where everyone is against you. http://guardian.gg/en/weapon-stats?platform=2&start=2016-02-12&end=2016-02-15&mode=9&activity=0
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Wow look at you trying to fudge stats to someone looking at the same information. First off you conveniently only choose one day for that and choose a game mode very similar to trials to prove your point. I did notice after this specific post that game modes with revives allowed are sniper heavy but I blame that on the nature of revives rather then the performance of special weapons. All game modes with out revives have shotgun as a clear dominant weapon. Also I will point out that in no way do I think shotguns themselves need to be changed again seeing as I feel they are in a good spot. I'm in the camp that the problem isn't the weapons themselves any more but the ammo on the map.
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nope you can move that on to any game type you want. you said that shotguns are the same as all primaries. which is basically wrong. which if you are reading the information you'd see only in rumble does that hold up. my info that shotguns usually are way less than all the top 3 main primaries is true. plus the dates are from the 12th to the 15th lol. thats 4 days not one. I said that only in rumble is there a shotgun close to the primaries and thats due to the game type. in ToO snipers accounted for 31% of the kills and shotties 7.55. looks like the amount of special ammo this weekend just gone where the patch has changed has worked wonders. that nearly a third of the kills come from a sniper.
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Bearbeitet von chemlord11: 2/15/2016 10:29:31 PMWhere are you looking? (all of this is psn from 1/16-2/14) Rift- hovering around 16-13% use for shotgun and sniper 10-14% with a slow increase in the past week or so but the drops last few days back down to 11%. Zone control- 16-17% with snipers at 7%..... Clash- 11-14% depending on the week sniper rifles 8-12% also depending on the week Control- 15-12% with snipers at 8-12% us with the 12 percent being a major spike started Feb 4 (why? O.o) and holding steady for now. Salvage- 15-10% was holding steady till the special change sniper wow 15-9% this game mode has snipers all over the place with high spikes and low drops in the same week. Skirmish- 13-9% it was steady at 13 till the change that dropped it to 9 snipers bouncing around on this one too anywhere from 21-13 before the change now bouncing between 17-13% (I still say revives play a major part in that) Trials- 15% wow then a drop to 13% the week before the change then bottom out at a steady 7% after the change. Snipers steady at 30% other than one week which spiked to 45% at one point (I assume that was the week of blind watch?) the only thing I can think of to keep that number from dropping is the sudden use of NLB for the first round and for whatever reason universal remote is still only year one. Rumble- 21-16% snipers 9-5% you already acknowledged this one. In each of these modes I found scout rifles and auto rifles at the same %s with shotguns (even on trials funny enough) handcannons being in there for a few of the smaller game modes. Pulse rifles for the most part where with snipers minus the modes snipers had %s over 15. Interesting fun fact HMG where constantly almost 10% across the board. Looking at these numbers the only specials not preforming with primaries are fusion rifles and sidearms though I believe that is because of their popularity rather then their ability (I use fusion rifles the most in crucible) Edited for proof reading sorry
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since the new patch dropped tuesday to alter the special ammo Skirmish autos 17.06% snipers 17.16 hand cannons 15.01% scouts 12.62% shotguns 9.1% control autos 21.14% scouts 14.45% shotguns 13% snipers 12.41% salvage auto 23.15% scout 13.88% HC 12.65% sniper 10.45% shotties 10.23% clash auto 22.71% scout 14.44% sniper 12.68% shotgun 12.44% HC 12.08% Trials snipers 31.52% scouts 22.88 auto 13.46 HC 7.94% shotties 7.47 since patch thats where they ended up. shotties seem to come in around where hand cannons are in quite a few lists. so since patch you can see that snipers are quite often being used way more. so to say they are on the same level as most primary is pretty far off. now obviously rumble and control stand out more for obvious reasons. but any other mode shottie use is way down and sniper use is quite far above it.
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Bearbeitet von chemlord11: 2/16/2016 1:41:21 AMsniper use way far above it? pulling from your own data clash [quote] sniper 12.68% shotgun 12.44%[/quote] a difference of .22% salvage [quote]sniper 10.45% shotties 10.23%[/quote] difference of .22% last I checked not even a full 1% difference in use constitutes a rather BALANCED situation. for the same reason shotguns are so popular in the 2 modes you keep side stepping is the same reasons for sniper use to be so high in skirmish and trials, the game modes cater to them. sniping revives are the main cause for the inflation of the sniper's numbers in this case not to mention trails in particular forces engagements at range. being in a close melee where one death slings the power balance so greatly is just not intelligent. the reason salvage has a decent shotgun % is players are forced in close by the objective. sure you could wait it out for 5 min till it spawns the flag but that is not fun, you could just try to ignore sniping lanes but in trials you have a high chance of running into people at true vanguards skill or higher at the higher levels that can snipe at melee range (still cant figure out how they make that work). a sniper is a long range skill weapon that rewards a good shot so in game modes that reward you for "one banging" the other team at the start and forcing them into a 2v3 and rewards revives its no small wonder ranged weapons in these modes are so greatly favored. on top of all of this we also have the fact that both shotguns and snipers appear in the same range as the primaries where on a consistent basis only the scout and auto rifles are at or above them.So with that information change the GAME MODE, fix hand cannons and pulse rifles (both legendary variants need a stability buff except for a few out liar models that already have a decent starting stability), and lower the amount of special ammo crates again (even with a fusion rifle I can run around with it as the only weapon I use and pull out a 1.0 Kd or higher. That should not be possible) or the amount of ammo they provide. just because a shotgun doesn't have the range of a fusion rifle and overwhelmingly powerful any more does not mean that snipers need to be destroyed. Both special weapons are in good spots power wise and buy the numbers they are preforming at about the same percents so the arguments we should be having is how fast we want the TTK. I personally want it the be slow this would show case the abilities of the subclasses more and would put more emphasis on skill. Having enough ammo on the map for everyone to use one hit kill weapons as primaries goes against that. If you want the game to have a faster TTK you should be demanding primaries to have their TTK halved to compete with these secondaries and even heavy. Argue for the sake of the game going forward not for your playstyle to be the king of the hill again. like I said I use FUSION RIFLES and not once have I said to do anything to them because I feel they are in a good spot just not understood by the community. too many on here are focused on making their playstyle better by messing with the other's weapons and Im getting sick of seeing it on here because its this mentality that has bungie messing with the weapon balance in huge strokes every few months rather then a few small targeted changes then moving on to more important things (for whatever good that might do -_-).
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your point was shotguns were matching primaries in all ways. ^ I have just shown that no they really dont. the fact you can add shotguns and scouts together and still not match snipers in trials show exactly where they are. my point is that if they want shotguns to be that weak and fusions to be that weak and sidearms to be that weak shouldnt it follow that snipers should follow suit. snipers have taken over shotguns in most lists. your allegation was shotguns are still an issue as they out do primary weapons. i have just shown that infact snipers do the same if not way more in some game types. so if you think shotguns are a problem then snipers are more so no?
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so you rest the argument right back to square one. the ONLY MODE THAT SNIPERS ARE VASTLY OVER USED IS TRIALS! I have said this over and over the other modes they preform in a BALANCED comparison to shotguns you yourself have posted numbes that have a difference of a minuscule .22 how the hell is this vastly out preforming? in trials its the game mode NOT THE WEAPONS that is the problem. All you are arguing for is to bring down snipers in the hopes that shotguns will again be kings. THAT is why I can't stand these people attacking snipers now that shotguns are finally in a good spot. the OP is saying that this "sniper meta" is a problem but looking at the numbers both you and I have posted snipers are not dominating any game modes that they where not already over used due the the way the GAME MODE IS SET UP! the weapons they should be focusing on working on is primaries andHM. Special ammo crates are the problem. NOT special weapons. [quote]I have just shown that no they really dont.[/quote] you have not shown anything other then that BOTH snipers and shotguns are still being used as primaries. why continue to attack snipers across the board for ONE OUTLIER MODE (the only mode that shows your point is trials) when I can do the same thing considering shotguns hover around 20% in use consistently in cases even out preforming auto rifles some weeks where as snipers are only used 8-9%. one outlier should not be your entire defense for such drastic changes to weapons across the board. that is like taking a user survey using one state and making changes to the whole country based on that survey. not to mention any changes you make for pvp ripple to PvE which gets screwed in every "weapon balance" patch they put out.
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Nope you said shotguns are still a problem. I show in fact sniping it's more of an issue than shotguns. Sniping is an issue as a snipe heavy game is a slow game. Slow too much and the game is boring. Sniping has no counter balance any more. Trials is the where you can see what's op now. When it was thorn and fell winters you could see that. Since the last balance sniping has by far outstripped shotguns by a long long way. Shotguns since the last balance only about 8 weeks ago has seen sniping go from small numbers to now going past Shotguns which you already said are an issue. So if Shotguns are an issue you agree that sniping is even more so then.
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No I consider them BOTH an Equal problem. unlike you I am keeping a level head and looking at all the data not just one game mode. I'm not going to pretend to know why you hate snipers but just because you hate the playstyle of sniping is no reason to destroy the weapon. Also seeing as you have finally admitted that the only game mode you care about is trials I can no longer take your opinion on weapon balance seriously seeing as you clearly are not thinking about 97% of the game but only your own little world. If your going to talk balance please consider all of crucible AND PvE content. This game is much bigger then that one game mode. If they are preforming the same on every other game mode then trials is the problem not the weapon.
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Well again you are reading my replies and then making up what I said. You said shotguns were a bigger problem which I proved wrong. I play control which sniping really has no real use in. But where does sniping sit? Right next to shotguns. Why is that? Due to people sitting at the back of a map picking off kills ignoring the objective. Ever tried to play control when 5 yes 5 of your team mates all snipe one lane? I have several times. Sniping is changing crucible from a fun hectic action packed game to a drab bore fest. People now are scared to cap as snipes pick them off from afar. Sniping has no counter balance. Shotguns can be countered by walking backwards now. Sound balanced? Nope doesn't does it?
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Bro you can't help idiots. He's just another ignorant fool
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This last response of yours is bang on. I agree completely.
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At least a vast majority does not want to camp and want to get into the enemies face, instead of playing sniper peekaboo
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The snipers I have encountered for the most part have been the mobile sniper the moves around. It's actually rare to find hard scoping snipers because they don't last long. I can kill a hard scoping sniper with a high impact scout rifle rather easily and with shotguns still accounting for over 10% of total kills in most game modes I would not by any means say shotguns are not still dominant in pvp the only place they are literally none existent is PvE where they or actually worse then when they launched on day one.
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Thing is why use a shotty? High risk low reward?
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Again if they are still being used as primary weapons there is clearly a reward.
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So shotties aren't allowed to be used as a primary, but snipers are?
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Never said snipers are fine to have primary status either (universal remote and NLB are exceptions before you try that angle too) currently the only game mode that has sniper rifles proformance in the area of primary weapons is trials and skirmish from last I saw. Those even with the shotgun meta we had these events where sniper heavy due to the way the game modes are set up same can be said why control favors shotguns. I just think this is a problem with the AMMO not the weapons themselves. Shotguns are finally in a good spot, sniper rifles are only dominant in game modes where revives are possible. Revive mechanic is the main topic of discussion in those game modes so I will hold off on saying they need a change until we get that issue hammered out. (the revive system is harmful to a player playing close due to the over shields and invincibility for short time).