[quote]"I’m talking about forcing them to get their heads out of their asses and focus on things like: [b]implementing a method of new player acquisition; not just doing fan service for the fans in the Bungie C-suite[/b]...The changes described in this article are the things you do to run a franchise,[b] not to keep making the game you and your friends have mastered[/b], or to chase trends.”[/quote]
Stop producing a game that only appeals to the hardcore fanboys who just want new, harder endgame content and then tell everyone else to get gud when they say they're being left behind. They're actively discouraging new players from hanging around, forcing out casuals who don't want content like "the largest exotic mission ever" to be the first step in what should be a simple weekly story mission (that you then have to run over and over again), and locking endgame content behind a playstyle and time commitment that, again, only appeals to the people who live for the game (making the game you and your friends have mastered).
The bulk of the existing player base and 100% of Destiny's prospective new players exists in that space before grandmaster nightfalls, challenge level dungeons, and raids that Bungie has completely abandoned; that's where the growth and the money is going to come from, not from the guys in the forums who look up your raid report to tell you if you should be allowed to have an opinion or not.
Hopefully we see these changes sooner rather than later, so that I and the other casual gamers who continue to hang around will be justified in not just giving up like 70-90% of its players has already done.
English
#destiny2
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This☝️. From now on Destiny is ala cart for me. If after a week or two of inspecting new dlcs to check the playability of new content, I might buy it.
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1 ReplyIt seems so obvious right? Focus on bringing in new people that catering to the 0.0001% of hardcores that are dwindling anyway. Yet they still don't get it, hence the new dungeon being in contest mode for 48 hours. I mean, the game is on life support anyway so it's too late now but it would have been nice to do these things beforehand but instead we had the "bring challenge back to destiny" game director and head streamer -blam!-.
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While they’re right about a lot, I don’t think them being Bungie’s Ex-lawyer means anything. That’s not what they’re paid to do. It’s not like this is their legal counsel or anything, or that a lawyer has any in-depth knowledge over a general player other than they definitely have the money to invest in the game…. Destiny needs a better new-player experience the current system is terrible and should really point you at least somewhere meaningful. But also when I talk to people that fail to get friends into the game, people do a terrible job of helping their friends through things too… And I don’t think “just bring back the Vanilla D2 campaign” that people like to toss out would do it any better…
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100% behind this. Standby for incoming flames though, “I fear all you have done is awaken a sleeping giant”
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Exactly, they pivoted so much on, "how this would be fun to watch" instead of "how, this would be fun to play" idea that Destiny had. They hyper focused on a super small sub genre of the community that they -blam!- the rest of the community. Hopefully now that Sony wants their money back in full and with some extra on top, this will be the change that they need. That or be shutdown or be absorbed into another studio. Cause right now seeing a pillar of gaming studio in it's state right now is just depressing. Like watching a puppy convulsing while on death doorstep kind of depressing.
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New player experience could have been through the onslaught mode and slowly introduced players to story. I can’t even help friends start the game because they have to do so much solo and I have no idea how to explain it
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4 RepliesIdk. I’m sure there are ways to appease everyone but I definitely wouldn’t cater to the majority population that doesn’t even attempt or play the content I spend the most time creating. Only time d2 gets all the eyes on it is day 1 raids/dungeons and sometimes trials. Which a good % of the player base doesn’t even play.
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I think two things can be true here. The player acquisition is garbage and Bungie is still reaping the ire from those that remember them as the company that "removes paid content". I don't think they've done a particularly good job at catering to the hardcore players either. Trials never got it's own sandbox and just reaps whatever the trickle down from pve is. GM runners find them about as easy as strikes with the builds now available. And while Salvation's Edge is my personal fav raid in a LONG time, I can acknowledge that it is a bit to unforgiving (in master especially) to a team that likely met through lfg. But even SE isn't that difficult once you know it, and once the red borders are done, like most activities, it is discarded from the weekly roulette of activities. But what good is criticism if we can't acknowledge what we want more of? For that I'd say Into the Light was a HUGE success for satisfying the community, even with relatively little content. Shiny drops made the loot chase exciting again, there were a variety of weapons (even if reprised) to satisfy both pve and pvp players. Pantheon was a big hit with the teams gearing up for day 1. I would like to see more of this.
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3 Replies[quote]Stop producing a game that only appeals to the hardcore fanboys who just want new, harder endgame content and then tell everyone else to get gud when they say they're being left behind.[/quote] What I don't understand is how upper management thinks adding harder content like this contest coming up which is said to be the hardest dungeon yet will improve things for the game. It doesn't make sense to add this at this moment when a good portion of the player base has dropped off that should be a warning that something they have done needs to be looked into and how to correct what it is that is causing the player base to drop off. This^ should have been their main concern asking themselves why this has happened in such a very short time with major DLC. For a "F2P" game it's not doing as well as it should be because it's a lot more than just catering to a small portion of the player base. The quality of the game has significantly decreased compared to Destiny 1, and that has had a major impact on how people view the game. So no matter how much content they push out the door, it's not going to change that glaring issue.
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1 ReplyThe biggest issue, to me, is that destiny is one step forward(a dlc) and 80,000 steps backwards(ie keeping the same old tired core content that is played daily by all players). Here is a new super and mods to make it op.., Now go do the same ol strikes you have been doing or grinder a thousand times. Here are new op weapons with said builds, now go play PvP on the same maps. Etc etc etc. Innovation and a forward progress needs to be had. That is what kept the og destiny full of players. New strikes, new PvP maps, and what should be new gambit maps… all with the most current dlc theme keeping the story alive. Make raids fun… not a try-hard complaint fest because all 6 players have to succeed or it is a wipe. It is one thing to be challenging, it is a whole other thing to create content that creates division amongst the community for any and all selfish reasons for hard to get loot.
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hear! hear!
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20 RepliesI'm a d1 beta veteran and even I find the game punishing. Have to play like a job just to get anywhere.
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2 RepliesAbsolutely spot on 👏👏👏 Let the minority who want harder games go find something else, and let the [b]majority [/b]enjoy this once great game. Hell, it might even attract new players.
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Edited by Chef Gengar: 9/17/2024 2:21:13 PMThey are too busy working on the Saint and Osiris cringe show to care
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This is so sad that not only Microsoft,Sony and even activision of all companies will call out bungie management but now even their own lawyers began to call them out, upper management needs to change
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1 ReplyEdited by Galactic Zones: 9/16/2024 4:59:30 PMHe's absolutely right. For far too long, Bungie's leadership has been completely self-absorbed, operating in their own echo chamber. Focusing solely on hardcore players and content creators is a terrible business strategy when they only represent a small portion of the overall player base. I've been playing Destiny since it first launched in 2014, and while the game has had its highs and lows, it's hard to deny that in its current state, it’s a massive turnoff for new and non-hardcore players. Overly complex, mechanics-heavy missions, bullet sponge enemies, weak-feeling weapons, a confusing power level and progression system, and 'Dual Destiny' along with drawn-out and repetitive exotic missions tied to main storylines all show how disconnected Bungie has become. So, if this article is correct, I'm relieved that Sony is stepping in to wake Bungie up from their self-absorbed mindset, forcing them to understand that Destiny 2 is a business—and that alienating the majority of the player base is not a sustainable strategy.
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If it has the tiger engine it will STILL be 🗑️
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8 RepliesBungie should axe marathon and just focus on destiny They can just take everything they worked on and add it to destiny in some way or another so it doesn’t go to waste It’s best to focus on what’s already built than build something aka a new ip that comes with the risk of being a massive failure and flopping They should just do what they do best
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20 Replies"Casuals" want to play the game, not try too hard and feel rewarded. That's fair, and valid and I'm not gonna knock anyone for wanting that out of their gaming experience. This is why I'm proposing the "casual friendly" playlist. It's a playlist containing strikes, dungeons and raids that are all set to narrative difficulty. Don't wanna socialize because other people are bully jerks who hurt your feelings? How would you feel about running the Vault of Glass with Saint-14, Shaxx, Zavala, Mithrax and Ikora? You know who won't dog on you for running double primaries and a sword on Templar? Saint. You know who doesn't care if you've never run sword? Zavala. Just replace every real person with an AI, because why not at this point? None of this stuff matters. Also, there are no rez timers. You're free to die as much as you want. Go ahead, a game shouldn't punish you for a lack of skill. Also, there are no champions and primary weapon surges are active. Also it drops pinnacle gear and if you complete it five times you can buy the raid exotic, because again, none of this stuff matters. Games are supposed to be relaxing and not demand anything of the player. You, yes, I'm talking to you casual, deserve rewards and to be appreciated. Vote Milk and I'll make sure you guys aren't facing the impossibly punishing Nightfalls and raids and that each of you gets the stuff you feel you deserve, because I love you and want the best for you.
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2 RepliesMeanwhile, Bungie says the next dungeon will be the hardest one yet, so there you go.
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24 RepliesEdited by BarStool: 9/18/2024 10:52:23 AMThe more pressing issue is Player Retention, which becomes impossible if you don’t have sufficiently hard content. A Dad gamer isn’t going to drop 100+ bucks per year to play the most relevant content because they don’t have the time to do so. This isn’t to shame them. They just aren’t going to do so. [b]edit: I should specify that by Dad Gamer, I meant people who don’t play a ton. It’s safe and not all that weird to assume that the less time someone spends playing a game, the less likely they are to spend money on it. Dad Gamer was arguably a poor choice of words, but I was basing it off personal experience.[/b] The players that do drop said 100+ bucks every year are going to be the players that produce the most revenue and by extension, will interact with the endgame content. In its current iteration, Destiny is too easy at base to be sufficiently engaging, and that’s without the usage of strong builds and weapons. Imagine this effect compounded in the Endgame content where the most engaging activities only happen 2-3 times a year, or are locked behind GMs which are a drag for everyone. The easiest way to increase player engagement and by extension, retention is to make the content Harder, but Bungie has gone about it the wrong way. Instead of making more complex enemies that have a presence on the battlefield, and will challenge the players skill, they make tanks which take a decent amount of time to kill. That, or they make snipers, forcing players to slow down and take time. Slowing down gameplay is not making the game genuinely harder, but rather making it more arduous. Darksouls and other souls likes don’t force players to slow down. They allow players to move quickly, and reward you for being skilled. That’s what Destiny needs in its endgame. A skill barrier, that will challenge everyone. Contest Raids did this via by being new and lacking any sort of guide as to the mechanics, but that’s it. They are just mechanically challenging. At this point, I’m rambling, but it boils down to Bungie hasn’t implemented Difficulty correctly and as a result, Endgame content is not engaging enough for long term players. This paired with the lackluster and easy base level content ruins player retention.
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4 RepliesRemaster d1 and d2. Combine them with all original content including what was shelved. Leave old consoles behind in other to upgrade the game to handle all of this content. That’s your entry point for new players. The chance for pc players that missed it to experience d1. Returning players can fill in the gaps of what they missed. More content for veteran players to grind. Remove the power cap from all normal activities. Remove revive tokens from normal activities including normal raids. Make legendary/master/grandmaster as punishing as you want. Remove the 1 and 2 from the names and make it just Destiny. PVP and gambit. Listen to pvp/gsmbit players to fix those activities. FFS separate the sandbox.
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Bungie seems to be scaling back on Destiny even more, so if Sony said anything about righting the ship it got ignored. Two Curses of Osiris per year isn’t exactly a selling point.
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Destiny's on boarding experience should have been first and foremost in their minds. If they don't get through the first 5 hours, then it doesn't matter if the later 100 hours is the best game ever.
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If it does lead to changes that better the health of the game, I'm all for it. I admit, I couldn't help but imagine Saltagreppo when I thought about "fans in the C-Suite", though I'm uncertain if he is one of the players whom the article was talking about.
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Edited by BlakeA9295: 9/17/2024 3:15:56 PMMy opinion, for what it's worth, is that I entirely agree with the atty, and it's not a "new method" that needs to be worked on, it's more on the nature of once again being a company that cares. They patently ignore player feedback, they lie constantly, issues that are years old are still in the game, and let's face it, platforming it on PC attracts cheaters, though I quesiton whether there's more on PC than console as they just use the PC as a 3rd party platform despite the fact that it's against the TOS I believe, so part of the problem is that they choose which parts of the TOS they want to enforce when they should be enforcing all of it, zealously. Again, this is my opinion, but I believe they should be taking legal action not just against the cheat developers but the cheat users as well. You see it's not just new players they need to attract, the old players need to be able to tell former players that they've got their stuff together again and get them back and then together we can recruit new players. I honestly think that until the trust is regained, that the whole argument is moot. This is going to be criticism but Bungie, you need to put on your big boy pants and take a little heat and address it instead of banning me like you usually do every time I mention things like this. The physics dept is a laughable joke. Nerfing 10 year old mechanics (tying weapons of light to helm of Saint 14) Nerfing lunafaciton boots Nerfing well. Nerf nerf nefity nerf nerf nerf. You make the way the Bureau of Land Management treated the native Americans look kind. We're tired of it but yet you've manage to keep, miraculously (exasperated smirk/sigh), the same game glitches, the same horrific physics, quadruple jeopardy with incoming arc damage especially when it's used as a burn which you stated you would not do again yet did, insane teleportation with the mobs (perfect shot, teleport, perfect shot, teleport, perfect shot, teleport ad nauseum. That does NOT make the game difficult, that shows that you can be abusive, nothing more. and by the way, we already knew that. I think it's fixable but not by the atty's methodology. First thing I'd do, imo, is to permanently block the top %1 messages. All of them. Why you'd even pay attention to them is beyond me, because what they do is come in, grab a title, tell you it's not hard enough, and go away until the next season, and meanwhile you mess over the rest of the playerbase. Is that who you want to use as a sounding board? Seriously. You lads and lasses have some serious introspection to do if you can get your overinflated egos out of the way.