originally posted in:Halo Archive
Abandon ship to land on some random planet you know nothing about because a couple infection forms snuck on board the SoF? Wat?
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Edited by Lord of Admirals: 5/28/2014 8:12:18 PMThat was just one empty cryo room on a ship as big as a CCS-Class Battlecruiser. Seems really illogical to just assume there's only two infection forms. Also, Infection forms can't really sneak on board since the Spirit of Fire never landed.
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Seems pretty illogical to me for there to be 200 infection forms on board the ship when there was an AI on board that had full access to the ship and should be able to notice if there are giant parasitic pieces of popcorn running around murdering the crew to death. Yeah, and the Queen from Aliens couldn't have possibly escaped the reactor explosion... oh wait.
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Edited by Lord of Admirals: 5/28/2014 11:48:26 PM[quote]Seems pretty illogical to me for there to be 200 infection forms on board the ship[/quote]How did we get from two to two hundred? [quote]when there was an AI on board that had full access to the ship and should be able to notice if there are giant parasitic pieces of popcorn running around murdering the crew to death.[/quote]Or maybe you know, you're forgetting that the Infection Forms aren't the only means of infecting hosts. All Flood infected bodies were burned, however, there's still the possibility a crew member who fought with the Flood on the planet brought back a spore. After all, [i]"One single Flood spore can destroy a species." -Cutscene, The Flood, Halo 3[/i] [spoiler]You're also completely factoring rampancy out of the equation[/spoiler] [quote]Yeah, and the Queen from Aliens couldn't have possibly escaped the reactor explosion... oh wait.[/quote]>Infection form magically teleporting into giant spaceship hovering above the ground >Xenomorph Queen surviving reactor explosion Great analogy.
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Clearly we're going with extremes, may as well do both sides. Even if a crew member brought back a spore it shouldn't matter. They were all in cryo, the spore would be frozen with the Marine. Infection form hides away on spaceship that goes back to SoF, just like the Queen did. Really expected you to put that one together on your own.
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[quote]Even if a crew member brought back a spore it shouldn't matter. They were all in cryo, the spore would be frozen with the Marine.[/quote]Not all crew members were put into cryo immediately. The ship was running on a skeleton crew two weeks after leaving Shield World 0459. [quote]Infection form hides away on spaceship that goes back to SoF, just like the Queen did. Really expected you to put that one together on your own.[/quote]It's hard for me to make that conclusion when I don't know Alien's plot beat by beat, and you're mentioning something entirely else. Not enough knowledge is known about how the Flood got onto the ship. Regardless, this has gone off topic due to my choice of words. The original point I was trying to make is that your original claim is rather presumptuous on the fact that: 1. You're assuming they abandoned ship shortly after heading home. 2. They did not inform themselves of the planet. 3. A cryo room, and a small one at that, is entirely indicative of the state of the rest of the shape. You're over reacting based on asinine assumptions made off of laughably limited knowledge.
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Still, One Spartan II went into a Flood Hive and came out with barely any scratches. I don't see how 3 along with a plethora of ODSTs and Marines that are well armed would so easily be forced to abandon ship. Especially when the Flood could likely get the ship moving like they've done other times(Mona Lisa). Wouldn't Cole Protocol tell them not to just abandon ship and let it float around with the enemy in it?
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Edited by Lord of Admirals: 5/29/2014 3:48:44 AM[quote]Still, One Spartan II went into a Flood Hive and [b][u]came out with barely any scratches.[/u][/b][/quote]Says who? Your gameplay experience? Nothing in the canon states the kind of physical and psychological trauma Chief suffered inside High Charity, nor does anything suggest if he did or not. Don't make up canon. [quote]I don't see how 3 along with a plethora of ODSTs and Marines that are well armed would so easily be forced to abandon ship.[/quote]And yet a single Infection Form was able to overwhelm an Elite and rip open its armor. As they did with hundreds and thousands of humans and Covenant forces of all kinds. [quote]Especially when the Flood could likely get the ship moving like they've done other times(Mona Lisa)[/quote]The Mona Lisa had an intact slipspace drive. The Spirit of Fire does not. [quote]Wouldn't Cole Protocol tell them not to just abandon ship and let it float around with the enemy in it?[/quote]I suggest you read the Cole Protocol (not the book). As long as the enemy is not allowed access to key information, like navigational data, it's fine. Additionally, we don't even know the circumstances of why the crew was forced to abandon ship in relation to the Flood. (And not to be overly technical, but the Cole Protocol only applies to Covenant.)
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[quote] (And not to be overly technical, but the Cole Protocol only applies to Covenant.)[/quote] Article Alpha-Omega of the Cole protocol (aka use your common sense and don't bring back any shit that can -blam!- us over and that applies non more so then the an all powerall god like parasite that wishes to non nom your unborn child and the rest of us) should apply in this case.
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I see no such Alpha-Omega subsection in the Cole Protocol.
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It was added after the UNSC met the flood.
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Source?
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My secret sauce.
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I think he means it's the subsection of common sense.
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[quote][quote]Still, One Spartan II went into a Flood Hive and [b][u]came out with barely any scratches.[/u][/b][/quote]Says who? Your gameplay experience? Nothing in the canon states the kind of physical and psychological trauma Chief suffered inside High Charity, nor does anything suggest if he did or not.[/quote] He literally didn't gain a scratch on his armor while doing so. I can see that. [quote]And yet a single Infection Form was able to overwhelm an Elite and rip open its armor. [/quote] Says what? Halo CE? Now, you're making up canon. [quote]Especially when the Flood could likely get the ship moving like they've done other times(Mona Lisa)[/quote]The Mona Lisa had an intact slipspace drive. The Spirit of Fire does not.[/quote] Uh huh, that doesn't mean that the ship won't be constantly moving away from them and they'll never get it back.
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[quote]He literally didn't gain a scratch on his armor while doing so. I can see that.[/quote]Gameplay=/=canon [quote]Says what? Halo CE? Now, you're making up canon.[/quote]Yes, says Halo CE. Unless you consider Halo CE noncanon, the Elite torso armor is frayed open. [quote]Uh huh, that doesn't mean that the ship won't be constantly moving away from them and they'll never get it back.[/quote]Still makes it easier to track. Again, we have no information on the circumstances of what happened. If Cutter or Serina want to save the crew, then they're going to try and save the crew. Was there anything that could have been done? We don't know. Remember that we have the luxury of omniscience. We can compare and contrast events happening light years apart and thousands of years apart. Characters in the universe don't. It's entirely possible for them to make the wrong call.
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Cutscenes are gameplay? We never saw what happened to that Elite, there could've been dozens, like there were everytime they showed up in Halo CE. Also could've been Combat Forms attacking him. So, they didn't explain it at all in the comic?
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[quote]Cutscenes are gameplay?[/quote]Why would they make an entirely new texture map for a minor buff or scratch? [quote]We never saw what happened to that Elite, there could've been dozens, like there were everytime they showed up in Halo CE.[/quote]if it was dozens that Elite would be a bloody pulp. They're a meter tall, and the size of the hole in the chest really only presents enough room for one to be clawing around. [quote]Also could've been Combat Forms attacking him.[/quote]Why does a combat form need to specifically "scramble the insides" of an Elite's chest? [quote]So, they didn't explain it at all in the comic?[/quote]There are three pages with the Spirit of Fire in it. Page 1: Hood talks about how sorry he is; silhouette of ship moving into frame Page 2: Hood still talking; full view of Spirit of Fire in a binary star system with a planet in the background Page 3: Hood finishes talking; series of panels from inside a cryo room with the planet in the window. "Abandon Ship" sign and two infection forms are seen. The speed and ferocity at which you jumped to conclusions without even having the source material yourself concerns me.
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Why would it be a bloody pulp, when they could overwhelm it through numbers while 1 or a couple take over it? That Marine on Floodgate in Halo 3 had a lot more than 1 Poppit jump on him, but he didn't explode like somebody summoned a daemon of Khorne. The Combat forms could've aided in the attack, not been the only ones. I saw 2 Poppits in the SoF, the SoF looked in prime condition as if nothing ever happened. That's never been the atmosphere present when Flood have taken over, or are in the process of taking over, a ship. I was puzzled, and still am, why a ship that looks perfectly fine with only a couple Flood in it was so quickly abandoned. It would've been better, IMO, if they showed a transition of the ship becoming overgrown with Flood biomass.
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[quote]That Marine on Floodgate in Halo 3 had a lot more than 1 Poppit jump on him, but he didn't explode like somebody summoned a daemon of Khorne.[/quote]I'm talking about the fact the Elites armor was ripped open. You said it could have been more than one. If it was more than one causing that damage, then it would be a bloody pulp. Also, gameplay=/=canon. [quote]The Combat forms could've aided in the attack, not been the only ones.[/quote]So they refused to attack anywhere but one specific spot on the chest? [quote]I saw 2 Poppits in the SoF, the SoF looked in prime condition as if nothing ever happened. [/quote]What is this with the assumptions? Apparently one cryo room is a perfect representation of the entire state of a ship as big as a CCS-Class Battlecruiser to you. [quote]That's never been the atmosphere present when Flood have taken over, or are in the process of taking over, a ship. I was puzzled, and still am, why a ship that looks perfectly fine with only a couple Flood in it was so quickly abandoned. [/quote]1 cryo room = entire ship wut [quote]It would've been better, IMO, if they showed a transition of the ship becoming overgrown with Flood biomass.[/quote]That wasn't the point. It was meant to be a minor reveal as to not take away from the main story at hand. It was obviously meant to be a seed to a story that will be continued sometime in the future, not a full blown plot point that will be relevant soon.
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Again, it's overwhelming through numbers, they aren't all necessarily borrowing into the Elite's chest. The gameplay showed that only 1 Poppit went into the Marine to take him over, but many jumped onto him to overwhelm him. We've seen Marines hold off a Poppit jumping onto them before, having 10 jump onto the victim guarantees results. Because there's no visible marks anywhere else on the gameplay model, that means it's impossible for the Elite to have been hit and/or tackled by Combat Forms? I don't recall a single room on Truth and Reconciliation that looked nice when the Flood were taking it over. What makes the Cryo room so special that the Flood don't do anything to it? You don't create a scene to show that a ship has been overrun by Flood, and have it only show one room with 2 Poppits playing tag. It shouldn't matter if it's supposed to hint at the story that will be continued in the future. Halo 3 ended with us seeing Requiem, that showed something obviously important that told us Chief's story will be continued and he's heading for a Giant, Forerunner metal ball. This should tell us that the SoF will return in the near-future, and it does. However, to express that it's been infested with Flood and abandoned, it would seem to make more sense to show a SoF truly infested with Flood, not a couple Poppits, that implies a meager amount of infection at most. Showing a hanger bay, with Pelican/Ship racks empty, and Flood biomass creeping over and some Flood moving around would seem to show it more clearly.
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[quote]I don't recall a single room on Truth and Reconciliation that looked nice when the Flood were taking it over. What makes the Cryo room so special that the Flood don't do anything to it?[/quote] The Flood don't seem to have infested that room though. In The Mona Lisa, they were stealthy stalking the occupants of the ship and then dragging them back to the engine room. If the SoF is infected it would be smarter to keep that biomass in a centralized area than spread it all over the ship. This isn't starcraft creep. Have you considered that the infection may have just started?
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Edited by Lord of Admirals: 5/29/2014 11:17:27 PM[quote]Again, it's overwhelming through numbers, they aren't all necessarily borrowing into the Elite's chest.[/quote]What point are you trying to prove? Go back through our argument. Not once did I ever deny a swarm of infection forms was required to take down a larger enemy like an Elite. [quote]I don't recall a single room on Truth and Reconciliation that looked nice when the Flood were taking it over. What makes the Cryo room so special that the Flood don't do anything to it?[/quote]Maybe because the Flood were actively trying to disable it so the Covenant couldn't take the ship away before the Flood had control of it? Why are you acting omniscient? How do you know whether or not a conflict took place in [i]that specific[/i] cryo room out of the multiple ones available on the Spirit of Fire? How do you know the nature of the Flood infestation? How do you know what prompted the crew to abandon ship? [quote]You don't create a scene to show that a ship has been overrun by Flood, and have it only show one room with 2 Poppits playing tag.[/quote]You do if you're trying to be subtle and hint at something larger. [quote]It shouldn't matter if it's supposed to hint at the story that will be continued in the future. Halo 3 ended with us seeing Requiem, that showed something obviously important that told us Chief's story will be continued and he's heading for a Giant, Forerunner metal ball. [/quote]Which is one of the reasons why lore fans dislike Halo 3's ending. [quote]However, to express that it's been infested with Flood and abandoned, it would seem to make more sense to show a SoF truly infested with Flood, not a couple Poppits, that implies a meager amount of infection at most.[/quote]How does this imply anything? Since when has a single room on a ship been representative of the [i]entire[/i] state of a 2.5km long ship? This is utterly overly ridiculous. What logic is there in this? It's like looking at someone's finger and being like, "Yup, this looks pretty good, must mean the rest of the body is pretty good too." When in reality the rest of the body could be a decaying corpse. How do you know what time period the shot is at in comparison to when they abandoned ship? [i]Why are you acting so damn omniscient on the entire state of one of the UNSC's largest warships?[/i]
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[quote]What point are you trying to prove? Go back through our argument. Not once did I ever deny a swarm of infection forms was required to take down a larger enemy like an Elite. [/quote] Yet you said this. [quote]And yet a single Infection Form was able to [u]overwhelm[/u] an Elite and rip open its armor. [/quote] How am I acting omniscient? I'm asking questions based on what's been given, because from what's been shown it raises many questions. Why are we shown Flood on the SoF when it looks like no fighting happened onboard? If it's just that room that isn't representative of the rest of the ship, why are we shown that particular room? If that picture is representative of the rest of the ship's situation, why was it abandoned when there was so little Flood? [quote]How do you know what prompted the crew to abandon ship? [/quote] Well, when the only thing that appears to be amiss is that there are Flood on the ship, one would logically assume that to be the reason. Clearly now this has to do with preference. You want subtlety, but I'd prefer if they just showed, or at least a representative force of, what the hell forced the SoF's crew off the ship. I can agree with that final point, there is no logic in showing a single perfectly fine, intact room of a 2.5 km long ship when you're trying to convey the idea that the ship has been taken over by the Flood. I'm not impressed by it at all to see a whole 2 poppits, when somehow I'm expected to believe that the ship has been commandeered.
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[quote]why are we shown Flood on the SoF when it looks like no fighting happened onboard?[/quote] So the Flood can't be shown unless there is fighting? This doesn't make sense. [quote] If it's just that room that isn't representative of the rest of the ship, why are we shown that particular room?[/quote] Over-analyzing to the extreme. [quote] If that picture is representative of the rest of the ship's situation, why was it abandoned when there was so little Flood?[/quote] Dude, it is one room. I don't understand your obsession with making it mean more than "There is flood on the ship". [quote]Well, when the only thing that appears to be amiss is that there are Flood on the ship, one would logically assume that to be the reason.[/quote] That isn't a "logical assumption" when most of the crew was put in cryo and probable still is. There isn't any information to logically assume what might have happened. [quote]You want subtlety, but I'd prefer if they just showed, or at least a representative force of, what the hell forced the SoF's crew off the ship.[/quote] It is a comic and you are expecting far too much.
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[quote]Yet you said this.[/quote]my apologies. The point still stands that Infection Forms are powerful enough to tear through Sangheili Combat Harnesses. [quote]How am I acting omniscient?[/quote] [i]Abandon ship to land on some random planet you know nothing about because a couple infection forms snuck on board the SoF? Seems pretty illogical to me for there to be 200 infection forms on board the ship That's never been the atmosphere present when Flood have taken over why a ship that looks perfectly fine with only a couple Flood in it was so quickly abandoned.[/i] How are you getting these statements from a [i]single[/i] room on a 2.5km ship? [quote]Why are we shown Flood on the SoF when it looks like no fighting happened onboard?[/quote]To indicate the Flood have a presence on the ship. Is there a need for fighting? Maybe I'm a minority in how I read my comics, but I see them as a moving picture in my head. Read a comic like that, and you'll realize they use cinematic cliches in how scenes are presented and shot. But now I'm going off on a potentially useless tangent. [quote]If it's just that room that isn't representative of the rest of the ship, why are we shown that particular room?[/quote]For the intents and purposes of storytelling and cinematic reveal. The open cryo pods and flashing "Abandon Ship" sign reveal something bad has happened. We don't know what, until two Infection Forms scurry across the ground revealing the Flood is the cause for the reawakening and subsequent abandonment of the crew. It's purposefully ambiguous for the sake of cinematic storytelling. [quote]If that picture is representative of the rest of the ship's situation, why was it abandoned when there was so little Flood?[/quote]Common sense dictates there's not. There shouldn't even need to be a legitimate reason to even go down that logical path. [quote]You want subtlety[/quote]I'm not advocating for subtlety, I'm respecting the choice in storytelling. [quote]but I'd prefer if they just showed, or at least a representative force of, what the hell forced the SoF's crew off the ship.[/quote]That's perfectly fine, but what grounds is that to immediately conclude that it was the two infection forms that forced them off the ship? [quote]I can agree with that final point, there is no logic in showing a single perfectly fine, intact room of a 2.5 km long ship when you're trying to convey the idea that the ship has been taken over by the Flood.[/quote]That's not a point I'm trying to make. It's not that they're showing it, it's that they're implying the true extent of what happened. [quote] I'm not impressed by it at all to see a whole 2 poppits, when somehow I'm expected to believe that the ship has been commandeered.[/quote]I'm going to ask again, what grounds is that to make conclusion that the two Infection Forms are the only Flood on the ship as you have done throughout this argument?