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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
3/29/2022 1:53:13 PM
42

Toxicity, Disrespect, Bullying

Dear Bungie, I’m writing because I love your game. Since the release of Destiny 1, I have enjoyed the content, gameplay, story, and grind of destiny. However, Destiny is more than just a game with entertainment value. It's a community of guardians, of players, of people. To many, including myself, it’s part social network and maybe even more - where reactions occur in real-time instead of a ‘post’ or ‘tweet’ that’s read in a feed at a later time. I have met and made friends with people I’d consider life-long friends through playing destiny and I have met people that I simply don’t understand. This brings me to the topic at hand: toxicity, disrespect, and bullying. We’ve all experienced it. Whether it’s the crucible match where a player tea-bags, emotes, shoots at your lifeless guardian, and follows up with a hateful message postgame or the raid team where a player is yelled at and kicked for causing a wipe or dying one too many times - bullying in destiny is rampid. I imagine that the player population in endgame activities like Trial suffer greatly from people that shy away from playing it because of the toxicity that comes along with it. Bullying in Destiny is simply everywhere and I personally feel defenseless to do anything about it. Moreover, I feel as though you, Bungie, as the game’s developer, doesn't do anything to moderate or police the behavior. In fact, I’d go as far as saying that you condone, support, and enable it by arming players with emotes that are used as a means of disrespecting and putting others down. More importantly, Bungie, you do not provide any in-game means of reporting bullying behavior. Bungie - you claim in your code of conduct: [quote]“We will remove the following content (and the users who contribute it) from our website or our games: Disrespect of any kind…”[/quote] You claim you support people’s mental health and wellness: [quote]“We want to share a message with everyone who’s experiencing a mental health issue: it’s okay to not be okay.”[/quote] You claim you do not condone cyberbullying: [quote]“Everyone deserves to be treated with kindness and respect. Bullying isn't acceptable and shouldn't be tolerated. If you're being bullied, it's NOT your fault.”[/quote] You even launched a mental health organization with https://guardiansmh.org/. But… How meaningful is any of this when you do nothing about the abuse distributed within your own game? Without providing a means of reporting behavior and consequences for partaking in the continuous disrespect, harassment, and bullying of other players - you’re a part of the problem and a far cry from what you claim on the web. Instead, your game is just another hand cannon in growing an arsenal of cyberbullying weapons. So, Bungie, please - you need to set it up. You need to crack down on the toxicity in your game and start putting actions behind the words you write on your website. No one deserves to be bullied. People should enjoy playing Destiny, in all facets of the game, and not shamed for playing it.

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  • The main issue and problem, is you have to come to terms with how much narcissistic poison you can handle. The game (as with most games sadly nowadays) is a company that is for profit. Which on the surface seems ok, where it crosses the line is into profit at all costs and it doesn’t matter who it damages or harms along the way. Narcissists and selfish people poison literally EVERYTHING they come in contact with, that includes coding. So you have to ask yourself “How much is the pro vs con ratio for myself to engage with this content and the toxic environment that is proliferated?” I myself have been diminishing. Oddly havnt run into a lot of toxic people in Trials (then again I havnt played in months because they ruined the reward system and now I can’t get anything), havnt run into any toxic people in PvP (unless the occasional teabag counts), where my issues have been in raids. That is the main reason why I only have run them once or twice and never again. Do I wish I could get the loot and rewards from them? Yes, absolutely. My OCD and completionist wants them. But after raiding for 10 years, the raiding community has taken its toll on me and worn me down and their vileness has unfortunately won. Plus the designers of raids feed into that elitist gatekeeping mindset because they DESIGN them from the ground up to be exclusive, instead of just making different difficult tiers. (Again, going back to they are designed BY narcissists FOR fellow narcissists. You have to examine for yourself how much torture and toxicity you can endure.) As to what Bungie says, I would hope you would have seen by now that most (not all) companies do these “token” goodwill gestures as a way to save face, not from an actual empathetic caring mindset. It’s for their holographic facaded image they project. (It’s what narcissists do.) They care more for their image then core value. (As sadly evidenced by more and more people in society.) I havnt bought TWQ or the season for many factors. Personally for me $80-100 is too much to enjoy the content at the behest of a poisoned coding environment. I’ll be honest in that I do love this game, lore, storylines, characters, gunplay, fantasy play, and if it was cheaper I’d probably buy it near instantly. But too many choices they have made over the last year or so continue to show and prove they focus more on the elite niche. Focus more on profit making uptick then designing things well. (Or being deceptive and designing them horrible on purpose, and then “fixing” them be they “listen to feedback”. Designing/breaking the problem on purpose and then selling the solution back. (And selling isn’t always done monetarily. How else do people “sell” their facaded image?) And they arnt the only gaming company, heck companies in general to do it.) And it’s beyond sad and disheartening that the only recourse we have is to just walk away, because only we suffer because we can’t have fun in this storyline and environment due to the selfishness of others. (Designers and the toxic community.) But you have to evaluate your own thresholds and pro vs con ratios and everyone’s is different. For your mental well-being (because Bungie sure as heck isn’t going to care) and body health (again, the body keeps the score. Good book. Read it if you get a chance 👍🏻) Do I agree that toxicity is rampant through this game and many others? Yep, and I have been at the brutal end of a lot of it and seen many more nasty evil things. But the companies and moderators are never looking out for your best interest (despite what they say. It’s for propaganda purposes. Actions speak louder then words.), only you can. Personally, I have been ticking back on time played for Destiny 2 (and SWTOR because of their malicious “xpac” of 7.0) and it sucks. Do I miss out on activities and rewards? Yeah. And I agree it’s horrible that I have to miss out on them due to the toxicity of the company and others in the community. But I can’t control the decision makers at Bungie nor any of the toxicity. I can only control myself and what I do. Hopefully with trying out a new MMO I might find some kind people and less toxicity (though I doubt it. But MAN do I wish I could be proven wrong, for once. 😑) I wish you good will on whatever choice you make and I hope you make the one best for your health. P.S. Also just because the decision makers might be narcissists, do NOT assume that EVERY employee is one. That is un factual. But sadly there is not enough of the non narcissists to outweigh the poor selfishness at the top. Hopefully their “re-evaluating” they did/are doing in the wake of report last year leads to better, moraled, kinder and empathetic decision makers that pay attention to the players as people and humans to be serviced and entertained and not data and numbers to be mined and exploited.

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  • If I ever play you I promise on my mama that I will bag you every kill and emote on your body

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    • Teabagging is bullying? Time for you to grow up.

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      • I lost brain cells reading this malarkey Look the world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows there are some folks thst are just plain -blam!- and seriously you got upset of t-bagging what is is early 2000s? Early 2010s? Grow a damn pair turn the other cheek and move on it’s not worth getting this upset over a game. God almighty what is wrong with folks thst think something in a GAME should treated as harassment?!

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      • Edited by Morbius Sin: 3/30/2022 2:21:12 AM
        Toxicity,disrespect & bullying are totally subjective matters (like most things in life) without proof & then reporting it,just because you might think you are being bullied,that doesn't necessarily mean you are actually being bullied. For example; The yelling & being kicked in group activities could just be a case of the person being yelled at (even yelling is subjective) is because they keep repeating the same mistakes,causing numerous wipes (wasting everyone's time) & never listens to any advice given,which would then conclude in them being kicked. In that scenario the toxic & disrespectful person would be the person being kicked & the kicking or yelling would be seen as being justified by most players & not as bullying. Calling for Bungie to become the 'Hate Police' is unwarranted & unnecessary (some might call it 'Toxic') as the tools to report offensive behaviour exists,you just need to have actual proof of an actual offensive behaviour & not merely because your feelings where hurt in a 'video game'. Furthermore,as a sentient being you have the ability to 'walk away' from such situations,you might say "why should i?",others in reply might say "why wouldn't you?",if it's as bad as you say it is & Bungie are as guilty as you say they are!

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        • As people say… kids these days wouldnt survive a mw2 lobby

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          • Edited by Smough: 3/30/2022 5:55:01 PM
            You see, posts like this is why the word toxic means very little on the internet anymore.

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          • Two nights ago a man on world wide television got out of his seat, walked on stage and assaulted another man because his wife didn’t like a joke. Nothing at all happened to him, no consequences for his actions and to make matters worse, he was later given an award. If the world doesn’t care about that, what makes you think Bungie cares someone teabagged you in a video game?

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            • This just shows you can’t handle online gaming. Maybe solo games are better for you.

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            • Bungie can't really police the entire internet. I think that's a bit high on the expectations. They rely on us to report people so they can be banned. Not everyone reports. I'd suggest muting chat from strangers and not getting on mic if you are sensitive to trolling. Maybe just stay off the internet if it's really bad and you can't handle it.

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            • Edited by RonnieOP: 3/30/2022 1:28:20 AM
              Most of these complaints are non issues. Teabagging and shooting your corpse means nothing. Your the one letting it bother you. I sick at pvp and i teabag all the time. These days it’s just a meme. And with kicking team members there’s literally nothing they can do. They won’t/can’t remove the ability for fireteam leaders to kick people. Unless there’s text proof you also can’t expect them to do anything with reports. Since it would be word against word. If they send you a message in game you can report it. And then just move along. If someone’s bothering you. Just leave them. They can’t force you to stay. I leave lfg groups all the time when the fireteam is full of annoying kids.

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            • This caught my eye for some reason. What behaviors are you experiencing that are outside of the realm of bungie’s in-game reporting tool? What is happening to you that bungie really has the power to address? I ask this for a reason not to start an argument and I would like to genuinely know if you have a moment. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding your point, but as I see it you are effectively asking bungie to censor a service with which they do business with, not control. That being, the internet itself.

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              • If you suspect cheating or abuse, report them via the in game tool or If does not work, you can try the [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Help/Troubleshoot?oid=13967]Manual Tool[/url] or reportinging from your [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Profile/GameHistory]game history[/url].

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                • These young gamers are soft as baby -blam!-......

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                  • If you can't handle tea-bagging or getting emoted on, don't play online games. Bungie isn't going to remove the crouch option because it hurts your feelings. I'm not saying you can't feel a certain way when it happen. But if you want to play online games, anywhere, you're going to have to learn to just let it slide right off of you. Emoting and Tea-bagging in online games is like the trash talking with friends playing split screen. Or revealing your winning hand with a smug satisfaction when playing a cards with family or friends. And maybe you always had a "no trash talk" or "no celebrating" rule with friends and family. Even if Bungie disabled the crouch button in PvP to stop bagging. Then they'd just do something else. Like spinning in place on your dead body. How many input actions should Bungie disable because you're getting upset? It's a whole other thing if they're sending you messages, talking trash. What I find so funny when I get those messages is thinking how important it was for THEM that they had to go through the extra steps to message me. I'm probably already in another match before I even get the message lol. But then it's not ok if they're using slurs and hate speech, or making threats. I don't mean "git gud" or "u r trash" or "lol Jotunn crutch". Yes, Bungie encourages emotes in PvP. They've shown off their usage in the past in trailers. It's part of their idea of fostering a spirited competitive environment. Where you want to win, and sometimes you want to celebrate that win. Many games have this. Even Smash Bros, a game the creator and director absolutely does not want it to be a super technical competitive fighter, has taunts, and has had them since at least Melee (the second game) if not the very original.

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                  • Found the Twitter dweller

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                  • You NEVER would have survived Xbox 360 lol, bruh, moderns gamers are WAY to soft. T bagging is hardly toxic anymore, this isn’t the 2010’s. Emote? Shoot lifeless guardian? Bro… who cares? People suck. People will always suck. Some won’t tho. But you can’t change it. You want Bungie to crack down on people *emoting and bagging*? I- I have no words other than get over it and suck it up.

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                    • Uhm, get good. And quit being a baby. You realize you CHOOSE to participate in the game. If you have an issue with some tea bagging or emoting, stop playing. You’re literally subjecting yourself to it then complaining. Don’t be so soft baby boy

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                    • The amount of time and energy you spent on this would've been better spent learning how to be an adult and report people for the "Hateful messages" you claim to receive, but bungie isn't going to do anything about the other stuff. [quote]Whether it’s the crucible match where a player tea-bags, emotes, shoots at your lifeless guardian[/quote] The fact that it irritates you is precisely why people do it. Be better than them, pity them, or get better than them and DON'T do those things back to them when YOU kill them. Sound good?

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                    • 1
                      GhaltaGamer
                      GhaltaGamer

                      Beware the man with the Golden Gun. - old

                      I get it. People should be kinder (I'm not whining, but you should always be courteous to your fellow man), and this is just a video game. But...that's human nature, man. You literally cannot stop tbagging or trash talk. This is 2022. People will be obscene, jerks, stupid, unkind, and total idiots. This happens everywhere: at work, at school, and now in video games. There is a bunch of it, and it is pretty annoying. But don't let it phase you. Stuff like hate mail should be reported, but if someone tbags your dead corpse, shrug it off and beat them. I've been in a few lobbies where we would be crushing the other team, but by some miracle they manage to win ONE round. Then they bag us like they're some kind of Big Cheese. Then we kicked their butts by winning every round after that. You just have to ignore it. Things like this are literally inevitable.

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                    • Also the T bagging stuff. It’s an official rule. If they T bag you, you T bag them back. It’s law.

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                      • 1) Using Emotes is not Bullying. 2) Tbagging isn't always a "F-You". It can mean, "Is that all you got?", "Bring it on" ECT. It's a Multiple Meaning Gesture.

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                        • The world is full of -blam!-, I can turn your argument against you if you want. Should people be banned for tea bagging and shooting a lifeless corpse. No, are they -blam!- yes. Kicking someone of poor performance in a raid depends on the reason(except after completing a encounter and before getting rewards). This world is full of -blam!-. If your advocating for a ban or punish these people for mean behavior then you should reflect on your own actions. While they can say hurtful words the only effect they have is the effect you allow them to have. But banning people is a irreversible act. I’m always in the mind of watch and learn. For raids I do my best to learn, I’m not a day 1 raider nor do I intend to be so I’ll watch a video and make or join a post for the new raid as a learning or teaching raid. For crucible someone teabags me I get better and teabag back and even when I get hate mail I don’t take it to heart.

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                        • I think Bungie does more than they need to by letting players report abusive behavior. What happens after the report? I would hope they ban people using really offensive language, but you can probably argue free speech for most of it. I have fun playing Control and Iron Banner, but both modes have some hot dogs who don’t cap zones and think they’re God’s gift to their team. They’re bad at playing with teammates and sometimes will say something small-brained in chat after the match about how everyone sucks. Never mind that they had an advantage all match by not capping zones. Sometimes they just camp in hallways and lanes waiting for their chance to team shoot or clean up with a shotgun. Anyone who thinks KDA means anything in Destiny should be a Mayhem main. None of the numbers mean anything if the game isn’t balanced and connections are crap. I used to hope Destiny would transform into a competitive game, but with new pay to win stuff every season I just gave up the dreams. My opinions anyways.

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                        • 0
                          IAGNRG
                          IAGNRG

                          It was me, I saw it coming. - old

                          Get over it.

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                        • This here is one of the reasons why this country is so weak and going to hell in a hand basket. Too many people get their feelings hurt over some of the dumbest things. If stuff like this hurts your feelings so bad and is too much of an issue with you then I suggest that you just don't play online games, or watch tv, or read a book, or go outside, or talk to people in general. Actually it's probably best that you just stay in your home and have no contact with the outside world.

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