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originally posted in: A Question of Vex and Hive tactics
5/17/2018 10:23:44 PM
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Nope. The Hive don’t want anything from the Vex except to kill and Take them. The Vex wanted to learn the power of throneworlds from them, which Quria did and transmitted before being Taken. Now at this point the Vex have their own unique space. During the Hive-Vex conflict anytime the Hive went through the Vex gates to bring the fight to them they [i]lost a lot of their power and stopped going in[/i]. Now that’s means they went somewhere where the laws of reality are different. Throneworlds, at least the Hive, as described as cyst universes. Toland traveled the Hive thrones and described them as bubbles contained within a dark dimension and were connected to each other there. So in actuality, it’s a greater dimension connected to ours that houses throneworlds. We don’t know if this is the Deep or something else. The Vex used the power of throneworlds to make the Infinite Forest for sure. Because they control the laws of that space. That’s how the make “real” enemies who are beyond their control, because they are made to think and operate on their own. That’s how the Vex study them to learn how to beat them. How they managed to simulate Light. The Vault of Glass may or may not be a throneworld, it may be their original plane or something else. We haven’t been there, that’s for sure, because we’ve never lost power in any of their spaces. You’re ideas in 1 and 2 , while creative, have no support to my knowledge. Taken have been used to power machines and armor but “controlling” hasn’t been observed. I do like how you think, very creative. Good work on that part. Go to Ishtar Collective to read up on the lore from both games. You may be able to refine your idea then.
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  • I know nothing of the inflated forest, but the hive getting anything from the situation described was more of an unforseen benefit of the process going wrong, with the Vex combat frames being used for walking feeding trays and Vex construction units used to build nurseries and incubators for worms and wormspore. The intended outcome is for the Vex to control the domain of a Hive generated throne world without Hive resistance. If all throne worlds are connected though, a similar method might be used as a backdoor to set up an outpost before launching an assault if they can remain unnoticed. Thank you though.

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  • [quote]I know nothing of the inflated forest, but the hive getting anything from the situation described was more of an unforseen benefit of the process going wrong, with the Vex combat frames being used for walking feeding trays and Vex construction units used to build nurseries and incubators for worms and wormspore. The intended outcome is for the Vex to control the domain of a Hive generated throne world without Hive resistance. If all throne worlds are connected though, a similar method might be used as a backdoor to set up an outpost before launching an assault if they can remain unnoticed. Thank you though.[/quote] The Hive only benefit from killing or Taking the Vex, in accordance with the Sword Logic. Hive thrones are known to be connected but Toland made no mention of other non Hive thrones being connected. Technology wise, the Hive are incredibly advanced. They got ahold of an ancient highly advanced ship before the left the Fundament and battling the Ammonites, Ecumene and Harmony, had plenty of opportunity to take more tech. The Harmony in particular were the most advanced civilization we know of. The Hive use a very poetic language but the one time they spoke normally was when spruce daughters were making the Oversoul technique. Rather technical jargon. Oryxs dreadnaught, which holds his throneworld. was pushed into the material realm using paracausal power and technology. I think that was the other thing the Vex wanted from them, as it gives them a space in the material world they solely control. Naturally we saw this doesn’t assure victory but his main cannon was unstoppable. So it could be a game winning advancement. The Vex are a great mystery. The fluid, as it turns out, is most likely liquified people from various species. (Credit to Myelin for putting that together) Which would make the origin of the Vex a real key lore point, in their place in the grand scheme. if they aren’t natural then they were made. So who made them? All in all I’m not sure how much of the past lore will stick in the future. With them changing things and all. The Vex liquefying people is a curveball, I expect more. Warmind sure gave us a few to.

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  • I don't think the vex even knew about the Hive until Crota -blam!-ed up, and the only reason they attacked is because the vex want to control all of creation in every reality

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  • That seems to be their first contact. Doubt there are actual multiple realities. That would mean multiple Travelers and Darkness, the Darkness that Takes the Vex could travel freely between them at will. Which would mean if the Darkness won in just one it could spread and hide in every other one. There would be no beating it. That’s a massive storytelling undertaking they haven’t even begun to touch on. More then likely it’s people misinterpreting throneworlds and sims. Oryx throneworld is a bubble, a “cyst Universe” (according to the Deep) within our own. Yet he created it through his personal power and shaped it’s fundamental laws himself, he [i]made[/i] that reality and his is far from the only one. The Vex have one too, or some equivalent, referenced once in the BoS. Not to mention the Vault of Glass and Infinite Forest, their sims are essentially real, the entities think on their own, can escape and survive outside in the physical world. So those two are why we see references for multiple realities made in the game. Most of that is some npc reading Vex data and guessing at what it means. Asher Mir was supposed to be some expert but look at how wrong he was in 2.

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  • Yeah, I'm not too big on all of this being up in the air either. Fans are less likely to make theories when the main canon feels so temporary. Didn't know that the Hive had collected previous technologies. I was looking at this from the Vex perspective, with them wanting a "pure" version of a Hive creation for themselves with which they could modify then effectively replicate. You seemed to be touching on that the Vex want knowledge of how the Hive produce the dreadnought and it's super weapon, I was under the impression that the Vex were more focused on the production of throne worlds for the means of hidden mass production and hubs for organized mass transit. As far as the Vex liquid goes, it wouldn't surprise me to find out it has an organic base. But I've been shooting things that "used to be something else" for a long time now. [spoiler]At least we aren't using the Vex goop as our primary fuel source.[/spoiler]

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  • [quote]Yeah, I'm not too big on all of this being up in the air either. Fans are less likely to make theories when the main canon feels so temporary. Didn't know that the Hive had collected previous technologies. I was looking at this from the Vex perspective, with them wanting a "pure" version of a Hive creation for themselves with which they could modify then effectively replicate. You seemed to be touching on that the Vex want knowledge of how the Hive produce the dreadnought and it's super weapon, I was under the impression that the Vex were more focused on the production of throne worlds for the means of hidden mass production and hubs for organized mass transit. As far as the Vex liquid goes, it wouldn't surprise me to find out it has an organic base. But I've been shooting things that "used to be something else" for a long time now. [spoiler]At least we aren't using the Vex goop as our primary fuel source.[/spoiler][/quote] Yeah I was not a fan when they went with the soft reboot. Ruins fan theories and kinda pushes you away from wanting to put the effort in. The Vex want to be part of reality and from the looks of it convert all life, the how is a total mystery. The Dark Future only showed that they somehow beat the Light and it was gone from the Universe. There was also a metric ton of them just sitting on Mercury doing nothing, so I’d say they converted all life too. They’ve had mass production and transit since before they met the Hive. A key component to understanding them is in their origin, which remains a total mystery. When they encountered the Hive it was mentioned the Vex had a Gate that led to the Ecumene, which was a civilization uplifted by the Traveler. At that point, if I recall, they had been defeated and only the Harmony (or what was left of it) remained. The Dreadnaught and it’s weapon signifies the kind of power they would gain if they could push their throneworld into the material universe. They’d have all the powers we see the Vault of Glass and the Forest, giving them de facto paracausal power. The Vex milk was always a mystery. Liquid can’t refine metal and make bodies after all. Also the need to convert existing life? All shows that their origin has to be being made. By whom? And what was their goal? The Precursor Vex are oddly ornamental and over time to the Descendant Vex grow more utilitarian. Could be a shift or I may just be seeing into that lol. I was hoping Warmind would start answering some questions but all we got was more mystery and retcons. Hopefully the fall dlc, about the Awoken, will start shedding some light on things.

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  • I need to look into this Harmony group. They seem interesting.

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  • Read the whole BoS, it’s the best collection of cards in the entire grimoire and really written well. Touches on the a lot of things too, including some good bits with the Vex you’ll find interesting.

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  • No more retcons would be nice. But this coming fall is feeling like it will determine if this story can survive in the long term. And sorry for the delayed response. Work and all.

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  • Yeah I was not a fan when they went with the soft reboot. Ruins fan theories and kinda pushes you away from wanting to put the effort in. The Vex want to be part of reality and from the looks of it convert all life, the how is a total mystery. The Dark Future only showed that they somehow beat the Light and it was gone from the Universe. There was also a metric ton of them just sitting on Mercury doing nothing, so I’d say they converted all life too. They’ve had mass production and transit since before they met the Hive. A key component to understanding them is in their origin, which remains a total mystery. When they encountered the Hive it was mentioned the Vex had a Gate that led to the Ecumene, which was a civilization uplifted by the Traveler. At that point, if I recall, they had been defeated and only the Harmony (or what was left of it) remained. The Dreadnaught and it’s weapon signifies the kind of power they would gain if they could push their throneworld into the material universe. They’d have all the powers we see the Vault of Glass and the Forest, giving them de facto paracausal power. The Vex milk was always a mystery. Liquid can’t refine metal and make bodies after all. Also the need to convert existing life? All shows that their origin has to be being made. By whom? And what was their goal? The Precursor Vex are oddly ornamental and over time to the Descendant Vex grow more utilitarian. Could be a shift or I may just be seeing into that lol. I was hoping Warmind would start answering some questions but all we got was more mystery and retcons. Hopefully the fall dlc, about the Awoken, will start shedding some light on things.[/quote]

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