JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Forums

originally posted in: Civil Reactions to Arcstrider at E3
6/3/2017 5:17:07 PM
6
1. Bladedance and Arcstrider represent different fighting styles and different power fantasies. Bladedancer is the rogue/assassin who tears through unsuspecting enemies with speed and stealth. Arcstrider is the Shaolin monk/Asian Martial arts master. Or if you want a more modern, sci-fi take on it.....think Darth Maul in Star Wars, Episode I 2. Bladedancer was not "useless" for PVE. It just that its super was geared towards crowd control, and was a poor generator of orbs. But with the addition of Nightstalker, Bladedancer just got pushed out of that role because of how powerful Nightstalker was. How easy it was to use, and the fact that it build it to generate GOBS of orbs AND give your team a damage buff. 3. No one knows what the full range of powers the Arc Strider has. No one's gotten to play it yet...and all we've seen so far is trailer footage. But in that trailer footage, Arc Strider is tearing through adds with an easy that Bladedancer was never capable of. 4. To compound Bladedancer's issues in PVE, it was considered OP in PVP because Hunters had the games only roving supers in Year 1. So it was the target of nerfs to both its super, its mobility....and ultimately even its ability to regenerate health. That's the issue that needs to be addressed. The Sandbox teams habit of using BLANKET nerfs to get at a specific problem. Blanket nerfs that wind up causing more problems than they solve.
English

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by eternalazhrei: 6/4/2017 5:20:34 AM
    Once again, you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. I don't mean to make this personal, but so many people are CHOOSING to see it as "not a problem" when other people have to deal with the issues and problems inherent in the subclass. So let me take your points one at a time. 1. You're right, they represent different fighting styles. However, this does not affect the way that the mechanics of the game deal with a melee only, long phase and low damage output super. It does not change the fact that in order to put out as much damage as a Striker, a Bladedancer has to stay in the same dangerous range with a boss for a longer period of time and risk dying (and let's be honest, if you stay in melee range with a boss the whole time, you'll die). The style and design does not change the problems with mechanics. 2. I did not [b]just[/b] say that Bladedancer was useless, I said it was "practically useless compared to Nightstalker and Gunslinger for PVE". The comparison is the important part here. Because if you're going to play PVE and pick between the subclasses, even for a strike, and you find that one subclass is not as (I'll use a different word this time) viable as the others, that's a problem. Also, Bladedancer's larger strength was not its super, but rather its invisibility monopoly in Year 1. People often talk about how Self-Revive warlocks saved so many Nightfalls, but I mained a Bladedancer and was reviving my family & friends many times during a Nightfall. And even that monopoly went out the window with Nightstalker, whose one invisibility perk has more utility to it than Bladedancer's 3. So you see how what little strength Bladedancer had was taken away from it. Now to address the fact that it's geared towards crowd control. Every other super in the game is, at some level, viable for use against bosses. Stormtrance is the closest that you get to Arcblade for being comparably useless, but even Stormcallers can sit near a boss and not set off an AoE slam, and just pump damage into the boss, and even Strikers can get close enough to use their super and do all damage in one hit, then survive the single AoE and escape alive. But Bladedancer cannot match the same damage because it will die if it stays close for the period of time it would take to match the damage. Now, you can say that that's fine because it's not SUPPOSED to be used on bosses, but when your other two choices can do JUST as well as Arcstrider/Bladedancer, even in an Arc Burn playlist, why would you EVER choose Bladedancer? So it is [i]comparably[/i] useless. 3. Alright, Bungie has a tendency to show off the things it has done well. It really does. And that makes sense, because normally the stuff they've done well, they've also worked on for longer, and so it looks more presentable. And that's fair enough. But it regularly means that when you don't see much of something, it's not great. For instance, we saw quite a bit of Sentinel in the gameplay footage, and from what we've seen, they've put a lot of effort into it. It has a LOT of different utilities, and that means they've done a lot of programming for it. There's footage that shows off all of the following features for the shield: It blocks damage for the player character, it can protect other members of the fireteam, it has a melee bash attack, it has a ranged attack that goes a great distance (as far away as a sniping psion), the ranged attack can track enemies, and the ranged attack will bounce between enemies and damage each one it hits. That's a 6 features, and they're quite varied and versatile. Meanwhile, Arcstrider has its flips, it has its regular bash attack, it has a ground slam that's smaller than showstopper, and it has a 5 foot sweep in front of itself that's narrower than a psion ground blast, that's 4 features, and they're all comparably limited to dangerous melee range. Do you really think, really, that Bungie has more features for it up and ready to go, nice and polished, and they just didn't put it in the gameplay reveal? Because if they have other features, and they're not ready, they don't work... Bungie will get rid of them. Bungie gets rid of things that don't work properly, that's how they try to keep the quality of their game up, which is fair enough. But it also does not bode well for Arcstrider. So saying that we haven't seen much doesn't mean that we can't judge the subclass; rather, it means we get to be thoroughly underwhelmed when we see it. Now that might change at E3, and I am hoping and praying that it does. But if it doesn't, how is the community going to react? Well, like my prediction, and that's why I'm making it now, there'll likely be more people like you that are saying we shouldn't make such a big deal, and many will even say "wait for the beta". And if we wait even for the beta, it will be too late, because Bungie will focus on beta bugs at that point. So it's actually [b]important[/b] to get out ahead with underwhelming footage and say "hey, wait a minute, that all looks good, but why does this part look so lack-luster? Is it going to [b]be[/b] lack-luster?" 4. I was specifically referring to PVE BECAUSE it was good in PVP. Because it's STILL good in PVP. Look, when the Hunter nerf came along in June of 2016, they [i]buffed[/i] the arcblade damage against AI opponents. They tried to make it BETTER for PVE... and it failed. It's still as "useless" as ever. And Arcstrider looks like it is going the same way. So yeah, I want to get out ahead of that and start the conversation sooner, rather than later, so it will be further ahead at the critical junction.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • So if they show little of it then it might be poorly worded out? RIP voidwalker.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by eternalazhrei: 6/4/2017 7:10:04 PM
    Yeah, I see your point, but there is an important difference. The voidwalker is an old class. But the Arcstrider is meant to be a new class, one they should be showing off right away. But they've given us a quick view and little else. Hopefully E3 will change that, but if it looks bad, I'm sure that when people like me try to talk about how it has issues, other people will stay say "wait for the beta". I'm trying to take a proactive approach, not a reactive approach. Now, there is a LITTLE bit of Voidwalker in there and it appears to mostly be the same. It even looks like the initial explosion might have some little seekers that come out of it. Maybe the explosion is smaller now, and the seekers are what go after the adds, so it's a little more like a roaming super. But that definitely is speculation, and I do take your point.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • 1. Your still operating off the assumption that Arcstrider is just Bladedancer with a staff. When none of us know the full extent of its abilities. 2. Bungie is mistress of the [i]tease[/i]. They will show you what they [i] wish for you to see[/i]. And since their plan was to reveal Arcstrider at E3, they could have easily left things out of the trailer. Bottomline is that we don't know, and anything else at this point is just speculation.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • 1. I'm not operating off of any assumption, I'm operating off of an observation of the footage that we saw. It presented Arcstrider as a melee only super, that deals damage over time instead of in a large burst, and affects smaller areas. And that's VERY close, if not the same, as Bladedancer. No assumption, observation. 2. And my point is that speculation is important. Yes, you're right they MAY have left stuff out to tease at E3. That is a good point I had not thought of. However, if they didn't, which is not only possible, but based off of Bungie's track record, just as likely, then getting the conversation started now is a good idea. So no, waiting and seeing isn't the only option. That's the reactive approach. I'm taking the proactive approach. Bottomline is that we know very little (not nothing) because they showed us very little, and that could well be as much a sign of disaster as a sign of tease.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Bump

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

You are not allowed to view this content.
;
preload icon
preload icon
preload icon