originally posted in:The Ashen Conflux
We all know Destiny 2 will sell like crazy when the game comes out.
The problem is, they will no doubt have sold less by a significant amount, thanks to the player base that's lost with Destiny 1 and those who won't consider the sequel because of how Destiny 1 was maintained.
Which is a huge loss to what could have been even more profit.
Titanfall 1 had a similar problem but TF2 is slowly regaining traction because it's actually a really well made game, however had they got the PR and gaming community backing on launch, it would have sold a shit ton more, enough to keep a momentum going for months and potentially years.
Destiny 2, won't have that. For players like me, it's already dead on arrival and I know thats an entirely bias comment to make, but that's gained from the Destiny 1 experience. I know a huge majority of people specifically year 1 pvp players who feel this way.
and that right there, is the biggest shame about the release of Destiny 2. Pretty much the reversal of a Halo 2 release situation. Starting a game announcement with negative PR due to negative expectations gained from a negative experience from the progression of D1 through the years.
I really think Acti-Bungie needs to get a team together that can really analyse the community properly and understand when a fault needs a REVERSAL after a decision that was made due to pressure was enforced but turn out to make the over game WORSE for the community as a whole.
The biggest start would be to actually engage and actually have a daily destiny player on board who is willing to critise bungie without fanboy appeal on a topic. Someone who actually cares about playing the game.
Having community managers like Deej for example led to a massive disconnect between Destiny players and the rest of the community, it was unavoidable that the dude was going to come across as a unsincere when he would be like 'i understand your frustrations about x and y' when its clear the dude doesn't even play or even understand what x and y is.
That kind of disconnect on a million dollar+ product towards a community of literal thousands is actually ridiculous and just further highlights what went wrong with D1 moving forward.
People involved in this game are clearly in this bubble of 'it sold well' therefore we can do anything and we do everything right!
Not really understanding that one of the biggest if not main factors to why this game sold so well was because of the establishment and connection as a studio that Bungie had with HALO.
The arrogance was the downfall and it continues to be seen today.
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I agree with you
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Anyone who took the effort to type that much dissing the game is kidding everyone, including themselves they ain't gonna be buying the sequel on launch date. Probably pre ordering too.
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Sure man. See you in Destiny 2
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Mate, I didnt even get the latest DLC and I sold my PS4 a year ago and basically only pc game. I played Destiny newest expansion using my friends PS4 and check in on these forums every 6 months, hoping hardcore they make the experience better. They haven't. I may get a PS4 again but I won't getting D2 just like how I skipped on the last expansion entirely with the same Acti-bungie mentality at work. What you read before is just a 6 month in the oven vent. Nothing changed for the better since then which -blam!-ing sucks. I'm not here wanting them to fail, I come back every 3-6 months hoping for -blam!-ing good news. But nothing.
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I largely agree with you. The only path Bungie has to victory is to be exceptionally specific when it comes to what is going to be in destiny 2. None of this "turns out the beta was 1/4 of the launch title, surprise." I'm interested in D2 largely only because my gaming community will be too. But if they come back with information like, "Destiny 2 will have, at launch, as many patrol areas, story missions, strikes, strike variants, raids, crucible maps, and weapons/armor as the entirety of D1 y1-3" [hypothetical quote] then id be interested. However, if they come out and say something like "Destiny 2 will feature 4 patrol zones and 20 story missions" then I know it's a repeat of Y1 and that I should wait for the "all of the above" version of the game a few years later.
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Waiting for the 'All of the above version' later might actually be a mistake from a gaming community golden age perspective. Although from a financial one its a solid super safe idea. D1's golden age hovered around between Mid to late CE with the MASSIVE reddit-youtube community explosion, and Ended around early post-TTK, with the pivotal shift to sbmm and the community dropping off real hard once TTK raids were being rinced out hard this time for sure knowing it wouldnt be at least another full year for some content. Although April update was a postive shocker for the players, it wasnt enough to kick it back to golden age era, once its gone its gone. Same thing can be said with Reach and Halo 3 and 2. I could label my personal evalution of the golden age of playing those games but that would be for another thread. But boy did Halo 3's golden age kick serious ass. TBF D1 GA was stronger than Reach's from a divisive community standpoint. So Destiny 1 in the long run wasn't that much of a failure when taking that into account. But yeah post GA, online games basically go on life support mode and then comes the GotY final version (cough mythic Halo 3 disc in ODST) where the game is still played and its financially the best time to play it, but the community, buzz hype and spirit is the shadow of the title. One exception though, Halo 2 did a come back with its GA maybe we should call it a silver age instead, a bounce back like that in online game is super rare and normally the product of youtube viral marketing bringing it back alive, generally a PC issue but I would bet hard cash D1 is not getting a bounce back to a level remotely close to what can be seen as 'silver age' most likely thing is at the weeks prior to D2's launch you'll get a surge or population boost thanks to Bungie marketing some legacy feature that links with D2 to semi-promote D1 fanboy style of 'I'm day 1' kinda elitism for the D1 players coming into D2. Doesn't matter anyways, D2 could still pull it off, but thats that Destiny 1 fanboy wish mindset that's been creeping up on people since day 1 of Destiny, with each DLC driving the point home they they haven't and they can't. How many times must they fail the community for people to wake up? Truth is some people won't and thats absolutely fine. Studios need fanboys to pay the bills and I don't want bungie to fail.
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Edited by Tibbaryllis2: 3/29/2017 5:36:38 AMYou're really looking at the major difference between an online PvP game and an online cooperative game. Most PvP games, as you describe, have very early and very short windows for the "golden age", but cooperative games that aren't strictly PvP based tend to mature and have later and longer GAs. It really just depends on if Bungie is going to rely on crucible to drive the community or the story/cooperative activities. I personally would largely argue that Destiny's biggest failure was marketing itself as a cooperative game and then being largely just a competitive one. When that made itself most obvious is the same time the community withered.
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You actually made a really good point there that I had not put a lot of thought about. About the difference between audiences focusing on the co-op side of things from a marketing perspective and how thats can be largely irrelevent for the 'golden age' of the community. I came from a largely PvP background and went in Destiny as a sole PvP player going in, it wasn't until I realised that better weapons were tied to raid content around mid way through CE did I focus on that aspect of the game. The thing is, since Destiny operates as an online only game with no offline options at all, that inheriently ties it to community politics, with the meta affecting both sides of the coin (PvE and PvP), it was bound to have conflict with each other from the start, where one side would be more favored over another until Bungie caved in and realised that PvE repitition isn't as sustainable as PvP repetition. So yeah, you have a strong point and we'll just have to see with D2 marketing, if they make the same mistake again. If they do from the get-go. It really shows they haven't learned / changed anything at all from the collapse of D1's first wave community.