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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 12/7/2015 3:08:54 AM
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Searching for Light in the Darkness. Are we being heard? (Another post they don't want you to read.)

Yes, it's their right.

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No, it's our forum.

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[b]The Poll[/b] Bungie are actively removing hot-button topics (such as matchmaking) from the Trending and Highest Rated tabs. Do you believe it is their right to censor these forums to make topics they don't agree with less visible? Or do you feel that these forums are supposed to be our place to have a voice and a place where we can champion causes for change? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [b]The questions it forces us to ask.[/b] According to DeeJ [quote]Player feedback is one of the most important components of the conversation on Bungie.net. Dedicated teams at Bungie survey the forums in search of support issues and development ideas. Specific user-created topics that [b]trend[/b] as a result of community interaction are more effective in providing us with that information than blog threads with thousands of competing replies.[/quote] If that is in fact true and their teams search TRENDING topics, it effectively squashes a thread to remove it from that tab. We've had hundreds of individual Guardian's weigh in on this topic and have about 10 of the most liked posts in #feedback, including 2 of the top 3. This is another DeeJ quote. [quote]Let me get this straight. The player is never “wrong.” I believe that down to my bones. At Bungie, I represent to the developers what you say without prejudice.[/quote] If that is the case, we've been asking for answers for a week now. Again, there are literally hundreds of stories explaining why people would like in-game matchmaking options and why LFG sites (as awesome as they can be for some) just don't work for them. If a player is never wrong, when one writes a heartfelt post that they don't want to have to use LFG or go outside the game to play the game, how can you reconcile the above quote when you answer them with "Go form your own clan"? Another Bungie quote (not sure DeeJ or another) in response to Asa's question: I love the game... But some don't. Can you shed some 'light' on your feelings toward these negative reviews and feedback? [quote]Bungie thrives on feedback. Never feel like you need to stick up for us when you see someone expressing an honest opinion about our games. We’re harder on ourselves than anyone else.[/quote] Players have been asking for in-game options to play with other Guardians since launch. With each new expansion, raid and batch of new content, that frustration grows for those who want to get on and play, but don't have friends on and don't want to go search outside sources for a team. As much as it sucks that the raid for HoW was delayed, I have to admit that part of me was completely stoked for whatever PoE was going to be because I couldn't imagine that it wasn't going to be endgame content that was finally easily available to EVERYONE and not just raiders. Joke was on any of us who thought that, huh? We are almost 9 full months into Destiny and it is more of a chore than ever to access meaningful content in this game. We've been asking for change the entire time, but have our voices been muted this entire time too? Again, let me go back to this quote from DeeJ, because this is very important: [quote]Let me get this straight. The player is never “wrong.” I believe that down to my bones. At Bungie, I represent to the developers what you say without prejudice.[/quote] DeeJ is our voice with the developers. Well, if DeeJ doesn't believe in our cause, how much faith can we really have that we are being heard? This is DeeJ from way back on November 11, 2014 in response to the call for more matchmaking: [quote]It's no secret that the highest quality teammates are the ones you choose for yourself. Anyone with a robust friends list will testify to that. We hear the feedback about matchmaking, and there are conversations about it's future. In the meantime, anyone posting to this forum has a galley of potential teammates to recruit.[/quote] This is tremendously important because it clearly shows that all the way back then, DeeJ was showing bias against matchmaking. [spoiler]If you're curious, my reply that day: [quote]Uh, no. Sorry DeeJ, but that's nowhere close to true. Some of the highest quality people you'll ever meet are in matchmade games and you all know it was ridiculous to not give us that option. Ask anyone who's played any online game how many amazing friends they've made that they met randomly online in a game. I met my wife in a random group in an online deathmatch. What you all did is indicative of the sad social practice of trying to protect us from ourselves. Is skydiving dangerous? Potentially. If I understand that risk and I'm okay with it, should I be able to jump? Yes, I should. Is there a possibility I may get grouped with an asshole in a random game online? Yup. If I am okay with that and willing to wear a headset, should I be able to talk to the 90% of people that aren't asshats? Yes, I should. As an online community manager, you should know that even though the bad seeds may be loud, the majority of people are cool and drawn together by a shared passion.[/quote][/spoiler] After HoW released, we posted yet more dismay at the unnecessary degree of difficulty just getting to run the new endgame content if friends weren't readily available. From DeeJ. seven months after having to respond to our initial calls for mm: [quote]At current, our philosophy about endgame content is that part of the challenge includes forming up a team. This is a strong community filled with players who are looking for teammates. Why not seek each other out here and band together[/quote] Well, we responded and we banded together and we have over a thousand likes over dozens of posts and instead of being heard, instead of being represented, instead of being engaged, we are left with flippant remarks, corporate-speak mantras and silence. Again, we have asked reasonable questions. We have given in depth answers as to why we feel so strongly in our beliefs. We have engaged in conversations with those who feel differently. We have searched for answers and common ground and have offered ideas for solutions. And in response, our posts have been removed from all but the "Latest" feed, which in and of itself tells us volumes about how much our opinions and experiences truly matter. I'll end this by again saying that the reason we all are here is because we love Destiny. We are all Warlocks, Hunters, Titans. We all have battled the Archon Priest, Sepkis and Rockets McD**kface together. We're not adversaries (well, outside of PvP) and we're all trying to make this game the very best it can be. So how did we get here? [spoiler]Thank you to all who believe, support, never give up and always #bumpfortruth.[/spoiler] ----------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: To all the Guardians supporting this and those who disagree too, I want to add a couple of things. First, I am saddened (and somewhat surprised) to see that Bungie have decided to remove this post from Trending and Highest Rated too, particularly when any of this community hurt could easily be healed with minimal effort on their end. Also, I want to clearly state that this is not meant as a personal attack on DeeJ. He just happens to be the Community Manager and so he is who we go to for answers. I've had it stated a couple times that we're being abusive and hating on DeeJ. That sincerely is not intended to be the case and I will re-post this here. [quote]DeeJ is our CM and I still overall think he's a good guy and wants what's best for us. I just think he dropped the ball on this one. Everyone has missteps. The intent of this isn't to attack DeeJ, but to try to repair a disconnect between the community and Bungie. I would hope DeeJ isn't the one hiding posts and I understand he is limited in what he can share. If he'd just maybe asked why LFG and clans don't work for people and guaranteed nothing more than he'd share it with the devs, he'd have been a hero. For whatever reason we got [i]sorry, it's our philosophy[/i] instead. This post is here because we want Bungie to listen, not because we want DeeJ gone.[/quote] I'm really conflicted at the moment. I am so grateful for the way the community have banded together to support each other and this community desire, but I'm also genuinely saddened at the stance that has been taken against us. This was a call to reason, not war.

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  • It's already gone wow

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    • Edited by Phil 421: 5/30/2015 8:09:35 PM
      It is their forum so it's their right but it's still wrong. Going back to Warframe (had an enjoyable 2-3 month hiatus from Destiny but had already paid 4 the expansion pass) as soon as my characters are lvl 34

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    • Bump

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    • Legendary post. You sir, belong in a teaching position at Harvard.

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      • Just responding to the poll, I had to say, "Yes, it is their right." Their property, not ours. They can just purge the whole darn thing if they want. I fully agree with the point behind your post, though. If this is the way they treat their customer base, perhaps we should stop giving them one.

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        • I am a moderator for another game forum. Here is the facts. There is no freedom of speech on a privately owned forum, only the CoC set by the owner. I personally don't care if matchmaking is optional. My only concern that if MM is implemented the only people who are going to suffer are the very ones asking for it. However, going by how the MM Lobby are behaving it's no wonder you are allegedly being censored. You don't accept anyone who puts in a counter argument. Abusive to opposers and any Bungie members of staff who reply to your threads. Flood this forum with repetitive nonsense threads and then call it democracy. For these reasons alone I hope Bungie doesn't give you matchmaking since most of you (there are some decent supporters amongst you) are not mature enough to handle it.

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          • Bump

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          • Edited by ChaoticSmiLEY: 5/30/2015 4:03:44 PM
            Bump! Keep it up Sols!! But sadly since I don't think this will come anytime soon, any PS3 players want to become friends so we don't need LFG? There's no age restriction, no highest LvL requirement, and NO ghorn requirement! I don't have any dlc's yet but working on it. Anywho, keep doing what you are doing Sols, love it!

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            • The only way (even if impossible) for show to bungie we are the "BOSS" here (after all we are the costumers), is to leave this game for 1 week. Zero players on Destiny and you see if they change and beg to us to come back play

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              • More bumping.

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              • Bump! I don't believe deej has our best interest at heart. He is a puppet on strings

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              • Maybe they wanted to read and start on other topics because that specific topic is already in the works

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                • Lost Sols for new community manager.

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                  • As far as one quote goes about us never being wrong, that doesn't stop them from disagreeing with us. In which they have made it clear that they do not agree with matchmaking. So sure you can keep making topics about it as a community but that doesn't mean they are going to agree with you any quicker. Even more so the community shouldn't be surprised when they start ignoring, even removing, them so other pieces of feedback are more visible. That said I'd like some feature that is in-game that aided getting fire-teams built. I personally avoid it entirely cause being asked to go through the system itself for it annoying. Simple idea, not matchmaking, constructive criticism. Everyone wins.

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                  • Le -Twirls fancy stache- Bump. Aou wee wee

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                    • Edited by Andreas17Chief: 5/30/2015 8:45:29 AM
                      You did a really good job here. I voted for "no", but feel like I should explain why. There is a human right that allows all people living in a country that reckons such rights to speak freely and write down there thoughts so the public can read them. That's also the one most companies probably hate the most. They don't want us to be critical with their products, because that ruins the profits. I got the strong feeling Bungie turned into such a company over the past couple of years. This forum is a relic of their glorious past. As you mentioned their recent communication with us consists mostly of hollow phrases that one can probably get from a web-page full of pre-made comments for public-relations employees (like DeeJ). Though this forum still is property of Bungie they once made it to read our thoughts and use that input to work on their games. I accept the fact that they cannot cater to everyones taste which means a lot of ideas will never enter the game because they do not really fit in. Still they keep ignoring major issues by behaving like they don't exist (matchmaking). The communication via forum and weekly up-date has become cold and technical. The new Bungie certainly doesn't want us to be to close to them, but still tries to keep up the facade of an era past. Why is it they never tell us how they are going to fix an issue so the players can give feedback before they end up with another problem. Example (I made this one up): "Yeah community! We are going to add a "turn in" button to ammo-synths. It will take another week to get this right without messing up the rest of the inventory, though. Until that we recommend you keep chest-farming low and special weapon use high. C ya, Bungie" Friendly, light hearted and straight to the point without getting technical beyond comprehension. How about that, Bungie.

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                      • To be fair, a lot of the threads are extremely negative towards the game, I'd understand if they removed those types. People tend to follow the vocal majority and when some people complain, a lot more feel like they want to complain too even if it's for nothing

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                        • Bump.

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                        • $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ^The only thing bungie cares about.

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                        • Wait they actively remove those... This calls for unlimited spam.

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                        • Op muted me because he disagrees with my opinion, but demands bungie stop removing posts that disagree with their opinions. Irony at its finest

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                          • Edited by Er0tiXsNipeR: 5/30/2015 3:07:09 PM
                            Money > community Bungie's Motto. Hypocrite at the finest.

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                          • Bump .well said sir and articulate as well

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                          • 5 bucks says this gets removed from the "trending" section.

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                            • Bump. Great post.

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                            • Bump against fascism!

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