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originally posted in: Will auto rifles be adjusted?
Edited by Soupreem: 9/4/2020 8:24:33 PM
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Let me fix this for you. Bows; Pros: Range, single-shkt damage for primaries. Cons: Drawtime, overall TTK is very low, most effective with double primary-ing. Scouts; Pros: Long range, good burst damage Cons: Terrible Close Quarters, unforgiving with bodyshots, very poor mobility. SMG; Pros: Very effective close quarters Cons: Terrible at range, low ammo capacity, high recoil (especially for controller users). Sidarms; Pros: Very effective up close with more range than an SMG Cons: Terrible at range, viewkick hides reticle on most models Pulse; Pros: Good Performance at Moderate Ranges, decent burst damage, good flinch output, among the fastest TTK. Cons: Extreme close or far situations are uncomfortable for effective use Hand Cannon; Pros: Great burst damage, mobility, good ammo capacity, easily controlled recoil where it exists Cons: Poor range Auto Rifle; Pros: Great sustained damage, decent range, good magazine sizes. Cons: Poor mobility, poor burst damage, poor damage output on 450s and 360s Sorry, but the original was not only wrong, but really terribly formatted. The best fix is overhauling the implimentation of controller aim to buff more mobile play-styles, especially considering Hand Cannons still reign supreme on PC. You have summoned me.
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  • Well done Butthurt

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  • Finally Summoned we agree on something. A really good player who takes the time to learn map control on all maps, sticks with their teammates, and doesn’t run out in the open or run at your opponents shooting all over the place will win. Autos really don’t have this huge advantage over hand canons like some players think. I like using different load outs according to what map I’m playing and tonight I used my God rolled Gnawing Hunger and had a few games where I just got wrecked by some players using Lunas. They were good players and really knew how to play the maps to their advantage and they won because of it.

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  • Lets get one thing straigh. Hand cannons do not in any way shape or form still dominate on PC. Also you're getting burst damage confused with damage per bullet, Autos have more than decent range, you left out different archetypes for every gun except autos, I don't think we should buff controller more than it already is, I personally feel controller has no place in a PC game. Also the easily controlled recoil is literally everything on PC, not just handcannons. Also "You have summoned me." ok....?

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  • Edited by Soupreem: 9/4/2020 10:08:46 PM
    [quote]Lets get one thing straigh. Hand cannons do not in any way shape or form still dominate on PC.[/quote] Except for being the preferred weapon for pretty much all high level play due to their mobility and flexibility. [quote]Also you're getting burst damage confused with damage per bullet, Autos have more than decent range, you left out different archetypes for every gun except autos,[/quote] Mostly out of the fact that you're complaining about all ARs when it's only 600s that are super strong right now. And burst damage is "a lot of damage in one small window," in the context of shooters, a shot or high RPM burst of shots. [quote]I don't think we should buff controller more than it already is, I personally feel controller has no place in a PC game.[/quote] Fixing MASSIVE issues on the front of controller isn't "buffing" it. And saying controllers need to be forbidden is just dumb logic. No AAA PvP first person shooter gives a significant advantage to controller over KB/M, and for the most part have an extreme DISadvantage in every game. [quote]Also the easily controlled recoil is literally everything on PC, not just handcannons.[/quote] Note the "everywhere" in my statement, they aren't particularly hard to control on controller, either.

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  • Yes thank you for making my point. Hand cannons are the preferred weapon at HIGH levels because they're a preference at that point. But if you aren't good at the game you're ganna choose an autorifle everytime because of the fact they do everything for you. Also Controllers aren't at an inherent disadvantage they simply have different areas of strength. For example they give up versatility and high mobility plays for massive amounts of aim assist and reticle pull. Note what everywhere in your statement? I can't find it. It's simply not there.

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  • Edited by Soupreem: 9/4/2020 10:38:55 PM
    [quote]Yes thank you for making my point. Hand cannons are the preferred weapon at HIGH levels because they're a preference at that point.[/quote] And they're the better option in slower, more controlled gamemodes. 6v6 is whatever. 3v3 Elim, Survival, etc. You want more flexibility over raw TTK. That's why SMGs and Sidearms (both out-damage ARs) lack any huge following. [quote]But if you aren't good at the game you're ganna choose an autorifle everytime because of the fact they do everything for you.[/quote] I'm not great and if I'm taking the game super seriously, I'm picking the Cannon, in spite of being an AR main. ARs are the definition of a one trick pony. Just so happens that people fall for that trick because ARs have been dogshit for the bulk of the past half decade. [quote]Also Controllers aren't at an inherent disadvantage they simply have different areas of strength. For example they give up versatility and high mobility plays for massive amounts of aim assist and reticle pull.[/quote] And it isn't worth that trade-off. You're railroaded into a single style of play, that might I add isn't even an objective upgrade against KB/M for reticle stickiness, of which is nullified if you're at all passable at tracking and/or snapping on KB/M Not to mention, it takes decades to turn around and Traction is literally a requirement on controller. [quote]Note what everywhere in your statement? I can't find it. It's simply not there.[/quote] "Easy to control everywhere" If it isn't there, I'll admit fault. But I meant that they don't have hard to control recoil on controller, either. Ah, "where it exists" is what I said.

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  • Hand cannons are a good option in slower modes but autos are still better becuase as long as you can kill quicker you're ganna win. Auto's may be a one trick pony but that on trick is killing everything without trying. And I'm not railroaded into a single type of play. I know different types and controller is a different type of play entirely than M/KB which is exactly why I don't believe Controller belongs with M/KB. I never said it was an upgrade. They both have tradeoffs. with controller timing is way less of an issue and the really long turns are part of the tradeoff.

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  • [quote]Hand cannons are a good option in slower modes but autos are still better becuase as long as you can kill quicker you're ganna win[/quote] Except where you have to angle predictably, and can't do much in the way of short form peeking due to among the worst burst damage of any primary. And this is especially considering the fact that the difference is 0.1 second in terms of TTK, which is small enough to where first shot will tend to win, and mistakes will make someone lose. In terms of logistics; Hand Cannons are better. [quote]Auto's may be a one trick pony but that on trick is killing everything without trying.[/quote] Sustained medium range damage with no intrinsic mobility upside or burst damage. So you have to force a sustained engagement in a sandbox that values extremely fast movement and positioning. They still have to try lol, I think you're just not good at fighting ARs here. [quote]And I'm not railroaded into a single type of play. I know different types and controller is a different type of play entirely than M/KB which is exactly why I don't believe Controller belongs with M/KB.[/quote] Not... Really. Other games mix and the style of play isn't different beyond controller tending to favor lower recoil weapons a little more. The only games that play significantly differently across input methods are: - Titanfall, due to the aim assist being way too strong on top of having well implimented control, so you get rooftop camp-offs with guns that don't lose their aim assist after close to medium range. - Destiny, because the controllers don't get nearly enough sensitivity to properly support a super mobile playstyle/game. This is on top of really badly implimented deadzones that increase the awkwardness. The only reason the aim assist here is so high is because it's a really bad cover for the latter point. Not even mentioning the non-standard recoil across input methods. [quote]I never said it was an upgrade. They both have tradeoffs. with controller timing is way less of an issue and the really long turns are part of the tradeoff.[/quote] Ehhhhh, it's more forgiving when holding angles, [i]maybe[/i]. Or any other issue where "timing" is necessary. But you have to massacre your ceiling of mobility to support it. It should be personal preference, not "massacre your game if you prefer controller over KB/M." Because, let me tell you, sticky aim isn't worth reading off almost all of your mobility.

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  • Autos are really good at holding angles. considering they have a huge mag and quick reload. They really dont have bad burst damage because of how fast they shoot you can get many bullets off in the peek time. Even if hand cannons beat autos in that one catagory, autos win in every other catagory. Also as someone who has used autos, the do not have to try at all. Autos do 99% of the work for you. And even with the .1 difference, it's on a way more easy to use and forgiving weapon, which should not be the case. And no I'm not bad at fighting autos. It's just they have an advantage in almost every catagory because they use an autorifle. If you start shooting at the same time, the auto is ganna win everysingle time purely due to their weapon choice. If you even look at gameplay the reticle will be way up to the left and you'll still be getting crits. Controllers like I said they're different than M/KB they have advantages and disadvantages. I don't think they're worse because of the extra aim assist and reticle pull. This simply compliments a different playstyle. You're not massacring your game if you like controller. You're simply going to have to play differently. Also Sticky aim is very worth it. That's how cheaters win games. they max out the effect of sticky aim using an aimbot. It gives the same but waaaay more extreme effect. Usually hackers movement is really really really bad, yet they manage to win just about every single game because no matter how good your movement is if you dont miss, you will win.

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  • [quote]Autos are really good at holding angles. considering they have a huge mag and quick reload.[/quote] But they don't offer upside in burst damage. So unless the enemy peeks for about half a second to a second too long, it's not really... Good. [quote]They really dont have bad burst damage because of how fast they shoot you can get many bullets off in the peek time.[/quote] They have to peek longer, and lose out their advantage over your Hand Cannon or bow. 3 shots from an AR and back is more time out than 1 shot from a Cannon, or a burst for a pulse and in. So you don't get as much damage on target, and it equalizes the TTK, which gives advantage to the less shots to kill weapon. [quote]Even if hand cannons beat autos in that one catagory, autos win in every other catagory.[/quote] - ARs do not have intrinsic mobility on them like cannons. - Kills per mag is about the same so it's not an advantage either way - Advantage in a situation where times to kill are equal goes to Cannons ARs are stuck with less versitility due to low burst damage and mobility. Yeah, they're really good... In 1 scenario. Hand cannons are good at In-air shenanigans, good at going in and out of cover, and passable in sustained damage. ARs are great in sustained damage... But are really bad in everything else without needing to alter gear builds. [quote]Also as someone who has used autos, the do not have to try at all. Autos do 99% of the work for you. And even with the .1 difference, it's on a way more easy to use and forgiving weapon, which should not be the case.[/quote] And as someone who's used Hand Cannons, and uses them when going super tryhard still, they aren't exactly hard to use either. Not to mention the fact that the community refuses to adapt to viable ARs, since they're so affixed on Hand Cannons being the second coming. There isn't a primary weapon in the game beyond maybe a Recurve bow that's hard to use but still viable. [quote]And no I'm not bad at fighting autos. It's just they have an advantage in almost every catagory because they use an autorifle.[/quote] Or you're trying to challenge them on their terms without a plan beyond "shoot space cowboy gun like I'm Rambo." You don't beat an AR player playing defensively without getting a jump on them or going cover to cover... Or forcing them to go aggressive against you. Destiny ARs are like LMGs in other games, just without triple digit ammo capacities beyond Sweet Business. But their style is that of a more traditional shooter LMG. You're trying to win in what they rule, not trying to force an engagement that's favorable. [quote]If you start shooting at the same time, the auto is ganna win everysingle time purely due to their weapon choice.[/quote] In other news, the sky is blue. That's why you play around that and not to the strengths of another's weapon. [quote]If you even look at gameplay the reticle will be way up to the left and you'll still be getting crits.[/quote] Same with a hand Cannon..? If that's even happening. Every Legendary 150 has about 30% more of that effect due to their intrinsic weapon stats. [quote]Controllers like I said they're different than M/KB they have advantages and disadvantages. I don't think they're worse because of the extra aim assist and reticle pull. This simply compliments a different playstyle.[/quote] Controllers; Pros: Sticky aim Cons: Pretty much everything else [quote]You're not massacring your game if you like controller. You're simply going to have to play differently. Also Sticky aim is very worth it. That's how cheaters win games. they max out the effect of sticky aim using an aimbot.[/quote] Sticky aim is far from an aimbot, hon. And you are massacring your game, you're killing your mobility, weapon performance, and overall aiming potential for some reticle stickiness. [quote]It gives the same but waaaay more extreme effect. Usually hackers movement is really really really bad, yet they manage to win just about every single game because no matter how good your movement is if you dont miss, you will win.[/quote] Hackers are bad at most of the games they hack in. That's... Literally the reason why they hack. "Yeah my positioning sucks, but why does that matter when I can instantly 180 to someone's head and dome them the frame they come out of cover?" That's true of almost every blatant cheater in video games.

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  • Edited by gizmoanimalpuker: 9/5/2020 1:08:22 AM
    Alright well I dont think we're ganna convince eachother. We'll just have to agree to disagree. This isnt productive and its getting us both nowhere.

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  • I don’t know how you do this so often... must be exhausting 😆

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  • I like analysis of FPS games lol

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  • I use to go back and forth with people like you do but Im too old for that now... Im only 21 😆. My Bungie Forum age is about 50 😂. I just find it exhausting to go back and forth. Especially when talking about classes... those conversations always end up going nowhere.

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