The reason why the range stay on thorn was needed was because you could literally snipe someone across the map with thorn with very little damage falloff
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Edited by Daedalus: 10/13/2016 6:26:19 PMSo getting shot in the face from 50 yards away isn't going to hurt as much as 10 yards because of "damage falloff". Yep 100% thumbs up..... I thought we used live rounds in the crucible not rubber ones. [spoiler]and thorn shoots pyramid like spikes at you that over-penatrate[/spoiler]
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The point is it's a hand gun, not a sniper rifle. It was a 2 hit kill year one. It's amazing how short everyone's memories are. They nerfed the DoT in April, not that long ago. Before then there was always a new "Nerf Thorn" post on here, even though it was a Year One weapon with Year One attack values. Now I see 2 threads calling for a buff... We really are a bunch of whiney children who can't figure out what we want... people cried and cried and cried, "Thorn has ruined the Crucible... it's so unfair... whaaaa whaaaa!!" I guess I just can remember stuff that was going on 8 months to 16 months ago, so I'm the weirdo...
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Edited by Guardian3010: 10/15/2016 9:29:11 AMNobody wants it to be a 2 shot at long range, but it should still be viable on certain maps and accommodate certain play styles. Grasp, waltz, distant star, and MIDA all outclass most other guns at most ranges. Was Thorn overpowered? Yes. Was it over nerfed? Yeah. You shouldn't be able to run a scout on Cauldron anymore than you should be able to run a HC on Bannerfall, unless you can close or extend the distance. I'm tired of using one archetype of HC and I'm tired of being told to get better with the other archetypes that are hardly useable. The crucible is broken, take advantage of damage falloff and balance damage across range instead of using ghost bullets. I'll take 8-9 damage and a loss to a scout at range instead of tagging them and seeing zero damage for my efforts. Edit: forgot to mention clever dragon which is just hilarious with high caliber rounds. It's the most broken thing I've seen since the low ROF pulse meta.
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[quote]Nobody wants it to be a 2 shot at long range, but it should still be viable on certain maps and accommodate certain play styles. Grasp, waltz, distant star, and MIDA all outclass most other guns at most ranges. Was Thorn overpowered? Yes. Was it over nerfed? Yeah. You shouldn't be able to run a scout on Cauldron anymore than you should be able to run a HC on Bannerfall, unless you can close or extend the distance. I'm tired of using one archetype of HC and I'm tired of being told to get better with the other archetypes that are hardly useable. The crucible is broken, take advantage of damage falloff and balance damage across range instead of using ghost bullets. I'll take 8-9 damage and a loss to a scout at range instead of tagging them and seeing zero damage for my efforts. Edit: forgot to mention clever dragon which is just hilarious with high caliber rounds. It's the most broken thing I've seen since the low ROF pulse meta.[/quote] Grasp and MIDA are both range weapons. MIDA an exotic that really only is a very agile scout. It takes up an exotic slot and should be great at what it is. An extremely agile range RIFLE. I never, ever, EVER whined about Thorn. I loved it. I loved the story behind it. I loved it's bullets. My point is this forum was filled to the brim with outright HATRED over an amazing weapon. And now that it's back and it doesn't have the max range value of its class... now y'all whine it needs to be buffed. I think all the whiners who cry about weapons need to learn that a weapon is only as good as the person wielding it. You can have a God Roll Matador and get beat by someone with invective if they have more skill than you. I think all the whining is from casual players that are sore losers. And all I'm pointing out is your hypocrisy. All your salty tears and hostility about Thorn is why it got nerfed to its current state. Is Bungie the problem or are you?
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I was agreeing with your point you actual clown. My hypocrisy? Go -blam!- yourself Aristotle. Neither MIDA or grasp are "range" rifles considering they have utility at any given distance. The only weapons that are affected by range on a consistent basis are hand cannons. Stop defending guns that can 3 burst/4 shot you, and in MIDAs case, boost your agility, and enjoy native screen rock. Stop pretending like you're not part of the problem when you don't offer a solution other than the community just needs to stop whining. And the irony is you do that by [i]whining[/i] Once again, Bungie should employ the range stat as a damage channel and balance the crucible. Or maybe they should just take your advice and wish the community wouldn't whine about better players. 🖕🏻
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Edited by Noa Kenobi: 10/15/2016 7:25:01 PM:P) Yeah, I realized that because I was regurgitating the main complaints everyone was whining about from before.... I mean seriously, were you here on the forum back then? Is it an exaggeration to say 1 in 5 of all posts back then were one form or another of people ranting or whining to nerf Thorn/The Last Word? I don't think that's really an exaggeration... Is there any wonder Bungie was afraid to bring it back, and over-nerfed it (according to all of your opinions)? So my real point is: People whine too much about the state of the guns. If you don't like using Thorn, pick up a Palindrome or use Hawkmoon. Both are still very effective Hand Canons. Make suggestions? Give feedback? Fine. But the nonstop whining and raging over it... I think it's only fair to point out that the nerf you all are saying went too far is a [b]DIRECT REACTION[/b] to the unending deluge of salty rage that went on from the community about the gun itself. Maybe when we call for nerfs, tone it down a bit? Maybe remember it's just a game?
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Lol yes I remember the complaining but the 75% nerf to base range is silly
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It did need a nerf, but not to the point where is it rendered to be a useless slot for an exotic. I wouldn't even use it as a legendary... It is possible to find a middle ground, the 25% range decrease was not needed
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Except that HCs now have nowhere near the range hey had in year one, and very high damage dropoff as well. With all the HC nerfs since 2.0 you pretty much need max range on every hand cannon except TLW to be competing, hence why Thorn needs its range back.
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Right, but since the Thorn sniper days it has had 2 range nerfs, one for all HC's and one specifically for Thorn...oh and don't forget bloom at longer ranges :( Combine that with the nerf to the DoT and it's hard to justify using thorn in PvP or PvE these days.
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Exactly.....its hard to justify using any Exotic HC execpt for TLW in PVP and no HC is good in PVE. HC's are still the most outclassed weapon type in the game. I really expected bungie to fix that in ROI but I was wrong.
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TLW is frustrating to use though, due to its likelihood of ghost bullets. Add on the perpetual lag this game suffers from and pretty much all of the exotic HCs are utterly out classed by legendaries. And even then those lose to scouts and pulses. They need to fix the imbalances in the crucible already. It's getting old.