Hand cannon users have become such whiners lately. I actually had respect for you guys but now I have none at all. Handcannons are the most dominant gun in the curcible in the hands of a good shot. Esalyuna, TLW, Hawkmoon, Finallis peril, Lord High fixer, and on and on can 3 shot with regularity and sometimes even two shot with the right perks procing.
If Bungie did what you asked and nerfed rate of fire, stability, damage fall off etc you guys would then whine about that and Im 100% positive you would
Hand cannons are in a good place right now. If they are not the best weapon they are for sure top 3
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tlw takes no skill and when you can get out gunned buy a pulse rifle at point blank range because you bullets arent hitting and just go up in smoke theres a problem all they have to do is take a way bloom and increase the damage fall off range and issue solved
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Preach
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Hc's have the hardest learning curve aside from fusion rifles. So you're saying just because some people do well with them, that people are new to hc's should suffer ? You're going to come to this thread and say people are whining because of a legitimate issue ?! Have you never made a suggestion for for an under powered weapon or piece of armor ? Don't answer that because I guarantee you have. I hate that people like you exist in this community. I honestly cannot deal with people that are hypocrites.
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Any weapon could be deadly in the skilled hand....
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I agree that the people that know their hand cannons and have mastered them can absolutely dominate.
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Whining is pointing out a problem with no suggestions on how to improve it. If you had read my post (and known what whining actually is) you would know that I have not whined. Welcome back to school.
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Edited by xilxad: 9/14/2016 4:06:23 PMHey the best weapon award is between 1000 yard stare, long bow, party crasher and the vanguard shotty. Thats it, everything else was ruled out although the last word almost squeezed in. Oh, yeah, mida gets an honorable mention.
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You're trying to reason with people who are making emotional, self-interested arguments. They want their weapon to have all the advantages of being a handgun....but none of the disadvantages. ...and when you point this out to them, all their answers boil down to: "Making my gun have to follow the laws of physics isn't FUN and it isn't FAIR!!!!"
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If it isn't fun, and it isn't fair (balanced) why would anyone want to keep using them? I'm in different camp. I know the guns are strong and totally viable, but only with a really good set of reflexes, a lot of practice, and the exact right perk / stat setups. They are a challenge to use well with any consistency, that's the nature of the gun. The fact that they require a healthy range boost to kill the accuracy issue is not only pointless, but it slits the throat of what Bungie ultimately likes to aim for: diversity of weapons used and builds committed. My suggestion has been to allow the guns to have drastically reduced bloom, due to the fact that the damage fall-off curve now ensures that if you're hitting someone at scout ranges, a crit will do between 44 and 22 damage. This directly inflates your TTK by 2 to 4 times...this isn't a viable threat from a low fire rate weapon. I don't want uber-guns, by any stretch. But I find it backwards to both force a class of weapon users to play way harder for the same result as a pick-up-and-go vendor Hawksaw can provide to anyone, and forcing everyone to follow one perk path and discard everything else. It's truly a question of balance in it's purest form, and I haven't gotten a real answer from anyone with their fingers on the code yet.
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Edited by Dozer552: 9/15/2016 12:32:22 AM[quote]The fact that they require a healthy range boost to kill the accuracy issue is not only pointless, but it slits the throat of what Bungie ultimately likes to aim for: diversity of weapons used and builds committed. [/quote] And there it is. The glaring contradiction between [i]intended use[/i] and [i]intended diversity[/i] with weapons and Bungie's goal. They're shooting themselves in the feet; or missing if their range is low 😏 (Had to!) Nothing further need be said. That was perfectly to the point.
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I enjoy the humor, carry on, good sir or madam.
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You nailed it though. Finally, we're getting to the root problem, I think. Thanks for sharing your input/ insight
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Hawksaw is a rilfe. Eyasluna is a handgun. Rifles are SUPPOSED to be easier to use for ranged shooting. its why mitlitaries issue them instead of handguns.
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Edited by Technohydra: 9/14/2016 7:32:24 PMEdit: I realized after I hit post how long this reply was...sorry about that. I didn't have a clue how else to state the point fully; I'll try to tone it down. That's not the angle I'm going at. Let's call the range 15 meters, the close end of most kill ranges in the game. Well inside a hand cannons intended range. I pull a bead on someone in that range and fire a HC shot. Unless I have over 40 range, I am not able to say with certainty that it's going to hit on target, in the intended range. It might crit as intended, it might drift to a body shot, or it might pull off target. Again, this is in intended range, not moving, jumping, bagging, anything. This has been demonstrated by many videos as a true condition. So let's assume the best, and the shot lands crit. The recoil pulls the sights themselves up and off the target, almost out of view unless you have over 55-60 stability. The user is required to predict this recoil, predict where the sights will re-appear and know when they have reached the settle point. In essence, you have to predict factors and adjust based on the predictions. If you fire as soon as the sights settle, you are still under the bloom effect to a degree. So unless you have the aforementioned range increases, and thus accuracy increases, the chances of your shot, from a stationary position with settled sights, not at max rate of fire, hitting on target is even less. The trend increases and gets worse on the third and fourth shots. To avoid this problem, you have to decrease the rate of fire noticeably and also have at least on range increasing perk, and preferable hidden hand or a stability increasing perk as well. Ok, fair enough. Now lets look at the Hawksaw in the same range and the same condition. You sight and fire burst number 1. The burst lands on target. The sights simply move up a small amount, stay in view the whole time, have a predictable vertical pattern, and return to the origin point of the shot. No prediction, no guessing and pre-correcting, and no worrying if the shots are on the dot. As soon as the RoF will allow you to fire another burst, you do the same thing; no additional practice or skill required, just the basic skillset that comes with pulses. The same thing happens as the first time. Same for the third burst, and the fourth. You know right where every shot will land before you even fire it. It's easier, not because the gun requires no skill, but because it has less negative factors artificially increasing it's difficulty curve to make it unpredictable. If I can do the same thing, with less effort, within the intended ranges of both weapons, why isn't the Hawksaw the better choice (which is an entirely different conversation)? In a nutshell, the gun is more predictable, more reliable, and more accessible, as well as much less demanding, than the average hand cannon roll, and that makes it hard to propose that the two guns are balanced. Basically by saying that it's ok that the skill gap is so varied, one is saying 'why are hand cannons even in the game, just use something else'. It's not the top-tier players that matter here, or the god-roll hand cannons, it's the average guns and average users that suffer from it, and it's pretty crappy that it's not even considered legitimate.
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Good point. Military wouldn't hand out weapons that didn't work at ten feet, and we shouldn't be bothered with them either.
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Dude you need to look at the weekly stats.
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Edited by aidanderson: 9/14/2016 12:29:05 PMJust because the last word is one of the best weapons in pvp doesn't mean it's consistent. Out of all hand cannons it suffers from ghost bullets the most because ghost bullets happen more often based off of your range stat. remove ghost bullets and drop the range stat of non exotic hand cannons by 10%. Boom problem solved.
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Edited by Boom: 9/14/2016 11:45:09 AMLol no they are not. They are in a terrible state.
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top 3 out of scouts pulses autos hand cannons so they are the 2nd worse primary in the game
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Bahahaha. Well said
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making them scrubs dance
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Maybe if bungie fix our guns so RNG isn't a thing we would stfu. And now we got people like you who think they should give their two cents and tell us the guns shoot fine. If a whole hand cannon community tells you the guns are broken and we want it fixed. There is a problem, and unless you have a REAL answer. Don't talk about things you know very little about. Its more going on then pointing and shooting a gun here.
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As I said, Hand cannons destroy as is. They miss shots just like a normal pistol does. If Bungie nerfed them by adding damage fall off you guys would cry about that. You hand cannon users wont be happy until its tlw/thorn 2.0
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Edited by RANGERX117: 9/14/2016 3:05:14 PMWell I'm glad HC's work just like real world pistoles. I was worried my real flaming hammer that I used to fight off the thralls in the Walmart check out line yesterday wasn't working like it does in the video game.
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We want RNG out of our shots. Were we point the gun, the bullet should go. Not randomly inside this big magic cone that's blooming out. In fact all guns are under this effect. Its just hand cannons have a larger bloom. The TLW is fine and Thorn needs a range buff. And I'm going to stop responding to you now, because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.