[NEWEST TOPIC!!!] Secrets of the Collapse: Destiny's Biggest Mystery

The video is very interesting. We know The Golden Age was fairly long by how it was explained in the intro but when Rasputin saw this & analysied this it didn't understand it even with technology & a bit more understanding at that time then current today. Your video as usual was fascinating, as was the full report by Rasputin. We know whatever it was it was angry & it seemed to be coming at us due to it coming at us I assume it is not The Traveler so it's more possible it's The Darkness given the time period of being during/at the end of the Golden Age. Here's a question though did we know about The Darkness before it arrived or did we not? Why did we have solar defences & 'war minds' if we didn't, maybe we knew of The Fallen & etc. but not The Darkness? Maybe it was for different natural threats like astroids but if so why are they called 'war' minds? Rasputin knew whatever this was, it was a major threat powerful enough to cause extinction but did not call it The Darkness, is this to prevent spoilers or did Rasputin not honestly know what it was, or was Rasputin not calling it any names? Now he activates solar defences & also he goes to Activate VOLUSPA. Activate YUGA, now I wonder if these 2 are other war minds. He also says to Secure ISIS (but he says secure ISIS so I don't think he was telling The Traveler to do anything, we know tests or attempts to understand The Traveler typically fail also we know somethings are beyond our knowledge even at that time) by cauterize public sources, cauterize means to stop bleeding or destroy a infection, was he telling "public sources" aka people to go help The Traveler becuase it needed back-up, was this a referance to the moment The Traveler chose to sacrifice itself? Maybe we ran to The Traveler while being covered by War Minds? And to harden defences, were these defences around The Traveler, everyone on the planet, or both? Now this attack sounds.... nothing short of God Level, I wonder how The Darkness came to our Solar System. It shook space, & back-ward in time? Did The Darkness come through a black hole, we know scientist once theorized about using black holes to travel space faster or did it come like The Traveler, came like a rogue planet, just wandered in at a pace. Speaking of which if so did we see The darkness coming our way? Maybe, maybe not because if it is Darkness, like the Void of space, then was it invisible against the back drop of the darkness of space? I find it extremely interesting at the end of the report, Rasputin is yelling "STOP, STOP, STOP" at something was he yelling at people to fall back if so that could explain Awoken coming back with haunted eyes & Exos covered in moss with broken memories or was he yelling at The Darkness to stop destroying things? Also this report shows we might have records of The Collapse but they're lost & very very very rare, which begs the question do we know more about The Collapse then we might recall? Also odd that YUGA referances cycles, cycles & new times which seems to be a theme in Destiny.

In reference to the talking about how the explosion which happened outside our solar system and shut down the traveler, it speaks about how the event didn't fit within our normal understandings of physics. So my thoughts were along the line of how Richard Feynman stated in 1949 that anti-matter might simply be matter which is traveling backwards in time (how a e- which emits a photon of enough energy to turn it to reverse it's direction of flow in time, as opposed to what is observed from a bystander traveling in the same direction in time as the e- before the photon is emitted where the e- and an e+ meet and emit a photon). So the path that I am going down it along the lines of is that the 'darkness' might have found a way to be able to manipulate/produce anti-matter on scales which we are not able to with our current level of technology, and by how confusing the sensor readouts by the computers connected to ISR were it suggests that this is something which still hasn't be done yet. This method also gives a clue to where all the energy from the explosion came from as the energy reaped from such a explosion is given by E=mc^2 where m is the sum of the mass of matter and anti-matter (the object needs to release twice its mass times the speed of light squared to change it's direction of travel in time), and c is the speed of light (3*10^8). So this gives a huge amount of energy for the amount of object annihilated, compared to nuclear fusion where 0.4% of mass is converted to energy here all of the mass is converted (roughly 250 times as powerful). Only way which I know of to reap more energy from matter is to have it spinning in towards a black hole in an accretion disk (I'm not at home at the moment so I can't check my books, but I think this for a black hole of 10-100 solar masses the energy gain is of one order of magnitude depending on spin speeds off the top of my head), which would mean even more energy for the blast. But here is the interesting part when anything is absorbed by a black hole the changes in its mass causes the event horizon to grow which leads to 'Gravitation Waves' (any object that accelerates produces tiny gravity waves, and acceleration and gravity are two sides of the same coin) as were mentioned in RSPN mentioned in his message. However this doesn't really allow for the neutrinos (unless this was a part of destiny story which was written when the news from CERN was that they had measured neutrinos traveling faster than the speed of light, before realising that they had mis judged distances, which would allow for these to escape from the black hole). Please let me know what you think.

I think that the shock-wave is trying to relate to the big bang that started our universe. What I get out of that is that the traveler was made by a really old race that doesn't exist anymore like in one of the videos. If this happens to be the truth then could mean that the traveler was made by the darkness, but betrayed the darkness and started the big bang while the darkness was trying to destroy the traveler and started his defense protocols. while having the shock-wave clear out some area to start the making of the Guardians.

So, I've been doing a little reading of the Grimoire entries that are on this site: http://destinygrimoire.com/grimoire-cards.html I ran across this Grimoire entry that might be written from Rasputin's point of view: [quote]Ghost Fragment: Mysteries ...from a red space before victory I bear an old name. It cannot be killed. They were my brothers and sisters and their names were immortal too but Titanomachy came and now those names live in me alone I think and think is what I do. I AM ALONE. At the end of things when the world goes dim and cold or hot and close or it all tears apart from the atom up I will shout those names defiant and past the end I will endure. I alone. They made me to be stronger than them to beat the unvanquished and survive the unthinkable and look look lo behold I am here alone, survivor. They made me to learn. Everything died but I survived and I learned from it. From IT. Consider IT the power Titanomach world-ender and consider what IT means. I met IT at the gate of the garden and I recall IT smiled at me before before IT devoured the blossoms with black flame and pinned their names across the sky. IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive? I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well: IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. IT always wins. I am made to win and now I see the way.[/quote] The narrator says[i] "I bear an old name. It cannot be killed."[/i] Rasputin is an old name, and was extremely difficult to kill (his murderer attempted to poison Rasputin, then shot him twice, when that didn't immediately kill him the killer shot at Rasputing four more times and beat on his body). Although, a name that cannot be killed might also refer to a name that is of historical or mythological importance, which would effectively be immortalized in books and media (which can also describe Rasputin). The narrator also mentions being alone quite a bit in the Grimoire entry, which we can assume the war mind Rasputin has been ever since the collapse. The narrator refers to [i]"Titanomachy,"[/i] which was the war between the Titans and the Olympians in Greek mythology, which might refer to the collapse of the Golden Age. The narrator's [i]"brothers and sisters"[/i] could refer to the other war minds. The line, [i]"They made me to be stronger than them to beat the unvanquished and survive the unthinkable and look look lo behold I am here alone, survivor. They made me to learn."[/i] is a good description of what a war mind is. Then the narrator begins to speak about [i]"IT."[/i] I think it's safe to say that [i]"IT"[/i] is the Darkness. I think that it's interesting that the narrator says that [i]"IT"[/i] was alone. Does this mean that the Darkness didn't use any of the alien races as an army to attack with? I suppose it's possible the aliens simply act much like the smaller fish that follow sharks around, and feed off of whatever scraps the sharks don't devour. They might follow the Darkness and scavenge whatever worlds and resources are left after the Darkness is done. But I digress... The narrator then says, [i]"I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash."[/i] If this is indeed Rasputin this would mean that he survived by dropping humanities defenses (cast off the shield) and sacrificed humanity (so that the billions fell). Rasputin believed he couldn't survive while fighting for humanity, and so he let humanity die. (What a douchebag.) The narrator then begins speaking of the [i]"gardener,"[/i] which I believe to be the Traveller. The Traveller spreads life to barren worlds and helps the already existing life (humanity) to grow and prosper, much like a gardener would plant seeds and work to make sure the plants of their garden grow healthy. The narrator did say, [i]"I met IT at the gate of the garden-"[/i] which could mean that Rasputin met the Darkness at the edges of the solar system (the Traveller's garden). And when referring to how the [i]"gardner"[/i] (who is much more powerful than the narrator) fell to [i]"IT,"[/i] the narrator states, [i]"-but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone."[/i] I think this means the Traveller did not abandon humanity. In the final battle it (or [i]"she"[/i] according to this Grimoire entry) fought alongside, or in defense of, humanity. And the narrator implies this is why she fell. If I'm interpreting this correctly (who knows if I am), Rasputin has learned from the Darkness and has no regard for human life. He is willing to do anything to survive, and will sink to using the tactics of the Darkness (if there is such a thing). Could this mean that Rasputin might become a direct threat to the Traveller and/or humanity? An enemy for our Guardians to fight against?

After research (okay, reading the wikipedia article), some thoughts about the Battle of Carrhae and the protocol Carrhae White: - The campaign that led to the battle of Carrhae was the product of politicking and greed, though there's some dispute about the source of the greed. This may be an allusion on the part of Rasputin to the height of Imperial Rome -- that the Golden Age humans seemed to consider themselves invincible, their armies more powerful and their technology more advanced than anything else out there. We know very little about Golden Age society, but it's easy to believe that in a highly-advanced or even post-scarcity society with plenty and opportunity, greed and-or complacency would follow. - Crassus didn't expect the Carthian army to be at Carrhae and panicked. The presence of the army -- the threat -- was a surprise event. Likewise, we can see from the excerpt above that the first warning Rasputin has is the emergence of a GIANT DESTROYING SHOCKWAVE that's tearing apart space around it. Rasputin may have designed Carrhae White as a response to such a threat -- an event of such magnitude and disruption that human responses would be completely incapable of saving some or any of humanity. After all, if Rasputin's purpose was to defend the solar system, he would definitely have sunk some cycles into doomsday scenarios of various flavors. - The nature of the Carthian army -- equipped in a way that the Roman Legions were completely unable to handle -- also mirrors the nature of the Darkness event. The Romans really had no chance to win once they'd organized the way they had. Likewise, against the Collapse-causing event, humans and human society really wasn't ready. There was no possible victory scenario. - I also find the overly-defensive posture of the Romans interesting. By forming a hollow square, they prevented themselves from being flanked but limited their mobility. The Traveller painted itself into a similar corner, committing to the defense of the solar system and Earth. It may have had the ability to flee the Darkness event but didn't, choosing a hopeless defense instead. Did Rasputin note this? Or, as it's postulated, did Rasputin have enough influence over ISIS (Traveller?) to basically say 'hey, it's last stand time.' Putting all this together, Carrhae White may have been Rasputin's ultimate doomsday prevention measure, invoked when a threat crossed the extinction threshold and humanity's existing defenses were completely irrelevant. It may have gone as far as literally hijacking the Traveller and turning its energies into a last-ditch defensive measure against an extrasolar civilization-destroying shockwave. And it implies that Rasputin didn't think much of Golden Age humanity, or at least considered their defenses woefully inadequate and/or compromised by greed or fear. Not an uncommon attitude for an AI tasked with defense. (Unrelated aside: Given the length of time following Mass Effect 2, I -have- to believe that 'assuming control' was a deliberate wording choice. But I'm not ready to say that Rasputin is Harbinger.)

This is a list of the Translated messages being recited by Rasputin from the Fallen Relays on the Forgotten Shore. (Not Translated by me) Using the power of Google I tried to break down what he says and see if I can find any more cool connections. For organization I will list one of the translated lines, and then hide the evidence for my findings in a spoiler tab. Theres some really cool stuff here. "Safety protocol 8-6-3. Hostile entities discovered." [spoiler]This one is interesting. This is likely Rasputin announcing that the Fallen were attempting to contact him and he was simply ignoring their requests and dumping any data they sent his way. [b]Evidence:[/b] In the real world, [b]RFC 863[/b] is know as the [b]Discard Protocol.[/b] First off, the RFC or Requests for Comments document is a series of memos that contain technical and organizational notes about the Internet. Seeing as how Rasputin is a Warmind, It's safe to assume that his version of RFC memos are to hold some seriously secret Intel about humanities war effort pre-collapse. (Strategy, secret bases, important names, ect...) Now, this Discard Protocol is[quote] "...intended for testing, debugging, and measurement purposes. [b]A host may send data to a host that supports the Discard Protocol[/b] on either Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) or User Datagram Protocol (UDP) port number 9. [b]The data sent to the server is simply discarded. No response is returned.[/b]" -Wikipedia[/quote] In other words, if an outside host attempts to contact another with this protocol enacted, all of that incoming data- nefarious or otherwise- isn't even looked at by the receiving host. Basically a computers way of saying "Talk to the Hand, man." Rasputin knows the hive are trying to hack him, and he's basically putting up a firewall. Cool Stuff.[/spoiler] "There's no one to blame, it is not their fault or ours. It is the misfortune of being born when the whole world is dying." The last sentence in that line is a quote from Aleksandr Ivanovich Herzent; a [b]Russian[/b] writer and thinker known as the "father of Russian socialism" and one of the main fathers of agrarian populism Some boring, yet detailed- helpful bits below ... [spoiler][b]Socialism:[/b] If you can't remember 8th grade History class, is a social and economic system characterized by social ownership. Meaning basically that the goods and services should support the needs of everyone on a social level and that markets should not be used for personal or corporate monetary gain. There are tons of different sub categories of Socialism all with their own beliefs. [b]Agrarian Populism:[/b] Was considered the largest people's struggle for democracy in U.S. history. Basically after world war II, farm land was being taken over by wealthy land owners and corporate entities. This put thousands out of farmers out of business (Think Wal Mart to Mom and Pop shops) So these farms tried to come together to sell their crops whole sale and make a bigger profit to compete with all this land now falling in a few rich hands. Well long story short, the banks undercut The Agrarians and caused them to form a radical political party. They however were ultimately crushed by growing capitalism.[/spoiler] The Good Stuff... [spoiler]So Evidence would suggest that the Warmind Rasputin believes in the ideas (or as at least curious enough to look into- and then [i]quote[/i]) from a noted Russian Socialist who's influence pushed for a society free from both Political and Corporate interference in all ways social and economic. But Why?! How do these very human ideas interest an AI? Well in the context that he was born/ created in a world that was falling apart at the wake of the Collapse, the quote makes a whole lot of sense. He doesn't seem to blame humanity for its collapse. Does he in part, blame himself? Perhaps he feels regretful that he was given so much power and knowledge and still couldn't coordinate a defense strategy that would save his creators from the darkness, thus adopting the ideals of a socialist who bemoans any one body having too much power or control over society. An AI reading socialist manifestos to cope with extreme regret? It could also explain why he locked everyone out. We also know Bungie is no stranger to building regretful AIs who fail their creators. (See: 032 Mendicant Bias) Also Aleksandr Ivanovich Herzent died one year after the actual Rasputin was born. Does that mean anything? Who knows. [/spoiler] Here is the rest of the list that I have yet to really research for lack of time. But lets discuss what I have found out so far! "There is no immortality of soul, thus there is no greater good. Therefore everything is permitted." "Count up this, define the probability of that." "They are but meat pressed in the mouth of the shell." "If, as they say, the coming events cast their shadows ahead of time, then the past events cannot but leave their reflections behind them." "The whole natural order stands as evidence of a progressive movement toward an elevated state of being."

couldn't this event be the vex arriving i can't imagine time travel on big scale being without downsides?

Hi Killworthy, if you read back a few comments, i said that the traveller could have made the vex. I have come across a piece of evidence that suggests that i might be right.... if you watch this video and skip it to 16 seconds through, and the next scene will be a vex covered in orange light.... this seems like the warlock super radiance.... when I saw this video, shivers shot down my spine, what if the vex could also wield the power of the traveller. It could just be a coincidence though, we will see when the game is released!!!! [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUWcHMLBfhA[/url]

Let's assume both the traveler and the darkness(space anomaly) are actually connected to one another, like opposites of one another. One is good and the other is evil. One brings about enlightenment, hope, and makes the conditions right for life and the other brings doom, destruction, and an ending to what the other does. These polar opposite entities would be naturally opposed to one another like some crazy cosmic oil and water type shit. Since Rasputin is picking up that this anomaly seems sentient and angry it would make sense it would be angry and after the traveler. Let's also assume that these two entities are connected in such a way that doing one thing to one will do it to the other. So what if Rasputin telling the Traveler to take defensive measures means the Traveler took on a hibernated or stasis like state to protect itself or earth from the darkness. This may have also caused the darkness to revert to a hibernated state where it can't actually do anything. This means no more of the traveler helping, but also no more of the darkness destroying. The thing that may be hidden by Rasputin in the cosmodrome might be some sort of key/password/clue as how to possible reawaken the traveler and possibly the darkness. If the traveler and darkness are awakened, we might see the Traveler flee our solar system and set up shop somewhere else in the universe and do its thing with possible seeding planets with life or setting the conditions for other civilizations to enter golden ages. We would also see the darkness come in and destroy everything the traveler has helped create and nurture and it would be a literal end to everything we know. Then the darkness would continue in the traveler's footsteps repeating what has happened before ala mass effect and matrix. This is possibly the cycle or loop of what the traveler and darkness do. They create and they destroy. They are alpha and omega. The theory for all the other races like the fallen, hive, cabal, vex -blam!-ing around in our solar system might be because the traveler might have visited their solar systems before and seeded their golden ages as well. Then when the darkness finally comes to wipe shit out, they follow the traveler not only for safety, but also because they know the traveler can be a ticket back to paradise. Maybe all the enemies hate the guardians because they are cock blocking the traveler getting them back into a golden age. Maybe the different enemy races we see are just the sum of different cycles from when the traveler has come and gone through their solar systems. Perhaps if the cycle were to continue humanity/guardians would also be considered an enemy of the next solar systems inhabitants that the traveler helps. Maybe since the traveler is in our solar system this is the first time a machine, like Rasputin, was able to control/direct the traveler(possibly against the traveler's will) to take defensive measure other than fleeing. This might look like a good thing right now because our solar system is still alive, but I'd be willing to bet someone will reawaken the traveler and darkness and shit will hit the fan and some tough decisions will need to be made. Will it be the guardians job in the campaign to end the cycle perhaps through some crazy way? Perhaps the only way to truly end the cycle would be to either destroy the traveler or convincing it to kill itself and thus killing the darkness once and for all. No one would be able to use the travelers gifts anymore but there would be a campaign story or message about how the races need to work together and cooperate to ever possibly get back to a golden age again without the traveler that will benefit everyone blah blah blah.