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Edited by LordHighfixxer:
10/30/2014 10:41:50 AM
245
Thanks for not listening about Atheon Bungie
[quote][b]Today's Patch Notes[/b]
Fixed an issue where Atheon was not choosing random targets for teleport through the timestream during the final encounter on the Vault of Glass[/quote]
1. This was not an "issue". The gates sometimes not letting people through, that's an issue.
2. The people who cared enough to be vocal about this over the past 11 days were imploring you not to do this. (Overwhelming majority was against the "fix")
3. We asked for an reason behind the decision to fix this "bug" and received nothing. CORRECTION : DeeJ did respond, see below
Thanks for listening Bungie. Its nice to know the Feedback Forum is nothing more than a graffiti wall.
EDIT:
Deej [b][url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/75512563/0/0]posted a response[/url][/b] in the Destiny Forum
[quote]I talked a lot to the developers about your opinions on the matter. You don't want to be selected at random. You want to choose who gets to fetch the Relic under fire from those nasty Oracles. I spoke on your behalf. Your voice was heard. We discussed your concerns.
I even said "Why not just change Hard Mode and leave Easy Mode alone?"
I was told "The Raid is never supposed to be easy."[/quote]
Ok, I'll buy that you spoke to them.
This is the worst though:
[quote]This is an activity that was designed to be undertaken by a hardcore team that is ready and willing to adapt and improvise to changing battle conditions[/quote]
Really? Up until this point nothing, zero about the raid was about "changing battle conditions" You could do it the same way everytime so I call Shenanigans on that one. From the mob spawns to the bounties, nothing is dynamic. The only changing conditions we have in this game are the maps that were selected on playlists or the RNG loot drops. That is a piece of insulting PR fluffery.
[quote]the designers who made the Raid have plugged the holes that you showed them[/quote]
Umm, no they didn't. The Timestream gates are still broken. The Raid does not have a countdown timer at the end. [b][url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Post/289707/72793837/0/0]There are tons of other things we have pointed out to you[/url][/b] but I will confine my comments to the Raid.
EDIT2: I wanted to share this as well from [b]Wiznux[/b] who has been commenting on each patch from a software development perspective and [b][url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/75510006/0/0]has done so today[/url][/b] as well.
[quote]As a developer, I cannot wrap my head around how this [Atheon's old/non-random Timestream method] could have ever been an issue. That functionality has to be written into an algorithm and tested to see if it functions properly, it would be immediately obvious that this does or does not work. There's no way this was an issue, and I'm truly disappointed to see that you incorporated this after the community expressed that they did not want it. [/quote]
EDIT3: One of things I was reminded of was that people were not as absolutely opposed to getting randoported into the Timestream if they had loadout control. I use a certain set of weapons when I am on the stay team vs the stream team. This is the tactical planning Bungie had initially advised us to pursue. Now I have to find the middle ground or face an ammo penalty when I switch from Icebreaker (max 6 rounds) to a void sniper (would leave me with 3 rounds) to possibly deal with the Venus Minotaur. If there was some sort of loadout switching on the fly like, I don't know, long press of X or something, then maybe this would be easier for people to swallow. That feedback was given side by side with the requests to not do this to Atheon. Devs did what they wanted and ignored our requests to wait until they could balance the challenge.
TL;DR: DeeJ just let you all know that Dev intent will outweigh player feedback everytime.
FINAL EDIT: With the Monkeys gone my team hit the patched raid last night and finished it with no trouble. 7 minutes behind our best time (largely due to bugs see below). We had a plan going in and my well organized team had no issue with the randoportation. No wipe occurred. Given that I can see how an unorganized team will have a measure of difficulty adjusting to this. As a group we said "this was no more difficult than it was before". However we did run into a bug. Twice coming out of the portal Time's Vengeance was not activated. When the oracles in the time stream where killed the buff did not activate at all. I am assuming this is an actual bug that Bungie should be looking into.
English
#feedback
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1 ReplyThey didnt fix the boss very well... you can push him off the othere side lol
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17 RepliesEdited by Ian 1 Kenobi: 10/28/2014 10:58:58 PMWhere the F is the story we've been led to expect? Where's the customization? Where is the dynamic open world we were promised and shown in E3 demos and YouTube videos? How can I forge my own personal legend when there seems to be only ONE approved path toward legend, the path that the developers choose for me, not a path I choose for myself? The raid patch is neither here nor there for me, though I think it is symptomatic of a larger problem, the problem being that the community's voice, the customer's preference, is going either unheard or disregarded. In an age of crowdsourcing, crowdfunding, vast online communities and a time when a consumer has the ability to have direct input into products he/she cares about I find it disconcerting that bungee/activision seems to be ignoring the trends of its own community. As a community we are invested in this game, at $60 a pop definitely financially, but also emotionally. We have high expectations of bungee based on it's brilliant Halo series. We have high expectations, still, of Destiny. We are varied community of gamersthat range from RPG enthusiasts to PVP badasses. Maybe those two things can't coexist? And maybe it's time to stop trying. I've been reading the boards for the last two months and I've heard a resounding call for more RPG/PVE/MMO type elements in this game. People, myself included, appear to want deeper, Richer, more layered storytelling. They want a world they can invest in and live in for the few precious hours a day they can spend with destiny. People seem to want avatars that they can customize as a means of expression and individualization. They want surprise and dynamism, A world in flux in which they feel like they can affect some change. As it stands right now destiny is static, utilitarian, a place without surprise or innovation. How can I feel a legend when every day I do the same thing over and over, enemies spawn in the same place, nothing ever changes. I don't feel like a legend I feel impotent and ineffectual within the world of destiny. In fact it feels as if you're latest patch punishes innovation rather than rewards it. This is a heartbreaking development coming from bungie studios… It was halos INNOVATIVE gameplay and storytelling but pushed bungie to the forefront of FPS development. Please return to your roots. Patches that address player creativity and innovation are not supportive of a world we want to be invested in. Your community grew, in a large part, because of the way in which these innovations were shared. The way in which a community would grow organically in the real world. What you have done is divisive. If I find an exploit, a way to beat the boss quickly and efficiently, why would I share it now? My fear is that that information would get around and developers would "patch" it so that it couldn't be used again in the future, thereby spoiling my own innovation and creative thinking so that I couldn't use it for myself. Please stop ignoring your community. Reward the players that spend the time in your world. Let your community grow and support itself by being able to share creative problem-solving solutions. Instead of patching,innovate and create, give us new things to do within this world make it dynamic make it surprising, make it fun. Don't punish your players, learn from them. You're seeing an abundance of creativity, innovation, problem-solving, communication and community development and support. Learn from it, grow from it, incorporated into destiny. Edit: I will be posting this independently in Feedback. Look for LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNITY and please bump/ respond.
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3 RepliesLove how the biggest determinant of success against Aetheon is still whether or not you're willing/able to exploit him off the edge right at the start. Wonder if that's working as intended. What the -blam!- is going on at Bungie? There is seriously something bizarre about the way this game turned out and is being supported.
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Remember when Bungie cared about the fans? Good days.
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1 ReplyNice post. Well written. I completely agree. I do believe Deej actually spoke to the team about this, but to what end? If he doesn't have the pull to influence decisions demanded by the community, what does he do?
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1 ReplyEdited by cormyre: 10/30/2014 1:56:05 PMThis "patch" feels like they just commented out the specific rules they originally wrote without understanding the issues the rest of the script running without that would cause, never pre-patch have I ran into the issues with the Atheon fight that I do now. 1-6 players teleported = wipe on the high or low... teleported with oracles already spawned = wipe teleported with it acting like someone already dropped the shield, though the 3 that were teleported are looking right at it = wipe teleporting dead players, etc etc...
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Okay like you said, the random teleporting is easy as it ever was. It was the most fluid hard raid I ever did. That said, I was also going to point out their b.s. patch note. If the "issue" was lazy non-object-oriented programming, then yes. It was definitely not a bug.
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2 Repliesmy guess is there is a reason there is no countdown at the end. bungie has said we (the gamers) have not found the biggest secret yet in the raid... so i'm wondering if there is no countdown so that you have time to explore and find it. i have tried to scale the sides and have found nothing but i haven't got the time to just look around.
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Sad bump.
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Bumping for the final edit. There are more bugs now than there were prepatch but my team had no additional trouble nor found this to be any significant challenge. This may be due to the fact that we plan and discuss tactics prior to tackling a difficult objective but the raid is no more difficult for us.
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5 RepliesYo bungie! we don't want a wet nurse following us around caring for every cry baby, We want a provider, as in get off your ass, And give us some of that content you bragged would be a Daily/Weekly thing....Oh wait no that too was a lie, The equivalent of booting up Halo and turning on a skull or two each week. You guys have failed at everything so miserably. You suck! 343I makes you look like amateurs and that's sad cause those guys give You-(BUNGIE) so much credit for inspiring what they do. BUNGIE IS A HAS-BEEN. I'd spend the money you made more wisely than on unwanted patches because you will never see those kinds of sales numbers again.
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8 RepliesEdited by GhilKlinWar: 10/29/2014 12:28:53 PM[quote]More updates are to follow as we continue to support Destiny. [/quote] Translated: We will continue to support the game while ignoring the players. It is OUR game, not yours. [quote]Future enhancements being worked on include Exotic Weapon tuning, [/quote] Translated: We will continue to nerf either PVE or PvP qualities of the weapons until they are all have the exact same stats and are no better than Legendaries. [quote]new features for voice communication between matchmade teammates, [/quote] Translated: We will let you talk to anyone that you are randomly placed into a match with, but you cannot talk to anyone outside of an instance, nor your clanmates or previously selected fireteam. [quote]and the ability to hold more Bounties in your pocket at any time.[/quote] Transated: [hey wait did anyone even ask for this? I thought we asked for MORE KINDS of Bounties, not the ability to carry more of the same ones.?] Since we cannot offer you more types of bounties we are throwing you this bone and saying you asked for it. Arrrrrg... I have supported the game up until this post by DeeJ and the developers. It becomes apparent that they not only hear what we say, but that they choose to ignore it. The reasons behind that can be speculated for weeks, but the effect of it is that even the enthusiastic and passionate players are being driven away. Those that know me know how I felt about the game and where it could have gone, but this last move was the icing on the cake (hurry up 11/11). Did they hear us complain about all the problems, -yep, they chose to ignore those and spend the time correcting something that was not broken, that was intentionally and knowingly programmed into the raid and then come back with that nonsense of a post and expect us to swallow it. choke-choke... sorry DeeJ not everyone here is 12 years old and just accepts that kind of BS without hearing what is really being said. Sorry for ranting on your Post Ozman, I was about to post one of my own but saw yours and you said pretty much everything I was going to. [quote]TL;DR: DeeJ just let you all know that Dev intent will outweigh player feedback everytime.[/quote] Translated: the true meaning of that entire waste of post-update propaganda.
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1 ReplyI just completed the raid on normal with the change and I have to say it was difficult. The randoporting was a hurdle and we overcame. Everyone learned how to use the relic and we adjusted accordingly. The load out is difficult as you aren't sure where you'll be next and therefore inevitably leaving the guardian at the mercy of the synthesizer timer hell. No chance for individual load outs and I was half tempted to ask everyone to go to orbit so we could synch our load outs for worst case scenario. If the three in the portal had oracle blasting weapons we were fine but if not, the team was screwed. We did encounter issues with people going through the portals. They didn't come out but were sent right back through again. Also, there still isn't a timer at the end of the mission. The raid dropped little to no green, hell, it dropped little to nothing and most of us bathed in even more shards and energies than we know what to do with. Three pieces of armor and three weapons were given but thank god we all were able to add onto our growing selection of shards and energies. Do I like the change? No Do I mind the change? No This falls into the category with the engram "fix." If this was fixed from the beginning the way it was "supposed" to be then there wouldn't be so much controversy now. I understand your frustration and hope they get things situated (the "[i]correct[/i]" way for the DLC.
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3 RepliesHow about fixing the portal enemies? My groups couldn't have been the only one to kill the pretorian or hob only to have it's health magical come back
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7 RepliesSo glad Halo is coming back. Forge looks orgasmic. Thanks Bungie for giving us Halo and thank you 343i for allow us something to escape back to. November 11th will be known as the day that players choose a different "Destiny" lol
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Edited by RCKBDHA: 10/29/2014 6:45:49 AMThe Game Gods (devs) set the rules and the playing field...Gamers strategize according to those rules on that field... the Gods are are not pleased, so they change the rules and the field... WTF? Level ups and customization based on luck rather than player choice. The game isn't even really "open world." (GTAV,RedDead Redemption, or pretty much any ROCKSTAR game annihilates Destiny in this regard). After this debacle, I will be spending $0 of my future dollars on Bungie product. ZERO DOLLARS. Are you listening now, BUNGIE?
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2 RepliesI've come to the conclusion that they have locked themselves into some dogmatic view of what they want destiny to be. They being the developers, and they dont give a shit what we think unless you want to pvp. I mean pvp maps are easy to make, good raids and content are much harder to produce and keep the players interested. Especially when you keep screwing with it. I also love that they seem to think farming mobs is a bad thing but the entire content after twenty is basically repetitive grinding of the same bounties and strikes, or .....farming. I also love they they argue the raid should be hard, but you can solo the black garden before you hit 20, which basically ends the whole f#$ cking story. Am I the only one that thinks the black garden should have been super hard and at least a 6 man raid. I guess when every gives up on this game maybe bungie will hire some new developers, but im pretty sure all the pve players arent going to be rushing out for any new bungie titles if this continues.
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6 RepliesSure the raids' not supposed to easy but its supposed to be strategic. "Fixing" the teleport took away the strategic part of that battle. [spoiler][quote]All I can say is good luck to those who are going to attempt the raid now.[/quote][/spoiler]
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The random teleports are fine, but we had zero players teleported, then 2, then four. In the next run we had 1 person teleport. It needs to be 3 people each time, 2 at minimum but it needs to be fixed. Otherwise, the Atheon battle itself isn't that hard.
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I just wanted an option to use match making for the raid and don't give me the it has to be a cohesive group that works well together because as is I can't get enough people together at the same time to even do the raid so at least with randoms I could try it
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2 RepliesEdited by MANUTD PREDATOR: 10/28/2014 10:54:03 PMAfter this patch I don't know if this game is for the players and fans or the devs anymore. They're laughing at us. They don't fix the bugs, they make the raid harder, they don't improve weapons like bad juju and thorn, they give us pumpkinheads. Real nice Bungie, thank you! You should care for your fanbase - not hit em in the face.
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5 RepliesEdited by Sethvirfireborn: 10/29/2014 6:34:03 AMOn the problem with the gates, we found very quickly that you couldn't sprint through them, had to space apart as well. If the relic holder goes least they can at least ensure everyone is through correctly. Don't know if that will help but we stopped having the issue when we started doing that. On another note. I agree that they should have fixed other issues. My team can get normal done in 30 minutes or less while we aren't playing seriously. But even then we get bugs that cause us to have no choice but to wipe to reset the boss or such, or bugs that kill nearly everyone. We even had Atheon kill nearly the whole team through two titan bubbles and the relic shield with direct impact damage. I'm going to create a new raid bugs thread every week in feedback till we either see fixes or i get banned
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Apparently DeeJ didn't actually fight for what the players actually want. He simply stated what we said and then left.
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Let's be honest, this was a sad attempt to drag out the content and slow the pace of level 30s. The DLC is still over a month off and there are quite a few games coming that will drop the destiny population. So their overt plan is to focus on pvp via IB (which is fine but you obvious neglect PVE folks AND say you want to be both pvp and PVE). Their covert plan is to slow PVE with raid "bugs" that need "fixing" which is basically drag it out.
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Signed. Missed the boat on this one.
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12 RepliesThey ruined reach (they're best game of all time) in less than a year think they won't do it to destiny
