Dear Bungie, You have spent an insurmountable amount of time talking about the atheon exploits, and only a small portion on the templar. If done cohesively the atheon fight isn't even difficult on hard mode without the cheese mode if every person knows what they're doing no matter where they are. Now to my point, the templar[er?]. every stage of this fight can be cheese'd on hard mode. [b]-CONFLUXES: [/b]altho defending during the waves is still a difficult task for most, the legion waves can be cheese'd by hopping into the spirit bloom chest room and waiting for the ritual to despawn them [b]-FIX:[/b] during the entire fight until the templar is dead make all hidey-hole areas as well as the leftmost pillar connected to the actual area[looking from the spawn point towards the relic spawn] turn back zones. [b]-ORACLES:[/b] everypne sits up top with scout rifles and icebreaker/other sniper with synthesis. a sunsinger glides under the platform where the central conflux spawns to their death[not touching the platform] this activates the waves and the sunsinger can revive themself. from atop all oracles can be seen if people know where to sit[i would explain, but it would take a very long time.] alternatively one person jumps down and runs by where the templar sits during this phase and jumps into the pillar hideyhole just right of him to see the left-back oracle, which is the hardest one to view from atop [b]-FIX:[/b] make the spawn area a turn back zone after the wave has been initiated. [b]-TEMPLAR FIGHT:[/b] By far the easiest phase. Everyone sit in the area where the shield spawns. shield carrier sits in the left corner closest to the templar. shield carrier only cleanses right before negation clearing all marks obtained by not killing oracles. meanwhile all characters equip pulsing or AoE grenadesspaced one second apart straight at the templar. he will float back a few feet and eventually fall off the back edge by where the middle conflux was. This is the easiest way to get the chest for the templar not teleporting as you don't have to take his shield down and he doesn't teleport. [b]-FIX:[/b]baby bumpers encompassing the perimeter of the fight area as well as either [a]: cleanse only removes 1 mark on the stack or [b] missing a certain amount of oracles is an instant wipe. also to futureproof the no teleport chest for any other exploits that may come around have the templer teleport if his shields haven't been taken down in the past 90 to 120 seconds[allowing for recharge if the shield was dropped, but not if it is repeatedly dropped. If you truly view similar atheon exploits to be exploits then you must also address these exploits or make a statement saying that this is how you expected people to overcome this obstacle. My apologies to anyone currently using these methods, but if you can't view them as exploits, you don't deserve the loot. Until these are patched go ham. -EDIT: Ofc everyone is answering no. typical destiny slags. -EDIT2: Bungie as a player I would also like to issue an exploit around the upcoming atheon patch. since you undoubtedly are only fixing what you have stated and not putting any more resources into it than necessary[costs of business or whatever] I would like to predict the next patch you will have to make: to avoid 3 random people from teleporting all you need is to have 3 sunsingers stay outside. But they can;t simply stay outside you say? yes they can. As time's vengeance runs out 3 sunsingers shall have their glorious supers available. they will plunge off of the edge to their deaths, retaining their super abilities. the remaining 3 individuals will be teleported and as they are BOOM 3 warlocks magically come back to life bypassing all the coding you are currently working on. -EDIT3: ANother statement to bungie: I feel it is an appropriate time for you to state what you care about more: having a smaller group of dedicated players[quality], or a larger group of players because you decided to make the game more playable to the masses who don't want to put effort into a game. are you going for quality buyers or mindless consumerism? are you making another Halo or another Call of Duty? -EDIT4: Loot in no way dictates what an exploit is or isn't. if pushing atheon off is an exploit so is doing the exact same thing to the templar, just because you can't do it doesn't mean you are entitled to loot. spend the time learning every aspect of the fight and get better.