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Edited by P4NCH0theD0G: 10/24/2014 8:40:34 PM
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Suros Regime on Sale again... and the Consequences

Wow, Bungie. Suros Regime. Again. Because there weren't enough people running around with it. Do you guys even read your own posts? "There should be no single best answer to the question: What do I bring into the Crucible?" And yet, here's the apparent "single best answer" on sale. Again. For everyone who missed it. So we ALL can run around with it. Suros Regime, the probably single most used exotic Primary in the Crucible. Probably the single most used GUN in the Crucible since it was sold the first time. Most likely the single most effective Primary Weapon in the Crucible when it comes to versatility. @Bungie Twitter asked yesterday what people want from Xur and about 80% of the hundreds of tweets wanted the Suros Regime - and of course, there can be absolutely no tangible reason for that. That alone should have been the only needed reason to not sell it again; and sort-of-proof that it's still perceived as OP (at least until we get bigger maps with longer sightlines, less cramped control points or more flinching when hit by SRs, PRs and HCs). You said you wanted variety. Now you've doomed variety. And the funny thing is, everyone who can will buy the Regime (except for me, I have my pride), then everyone will use it, then the people who don't have it (and this is and will be a "thing", People with the Regime vs. People without the Regime as evidenced by the little Twitter campaign) will complain about it, then you, Bungie, will act all surprised about that, think a few weeks, and then, when everyone loves their Suros Regime and has it upgraded, you'll nerf the Suros Regime, quite drastically, and everyone will hate on you. Really, Bungie, sometimes you do make the oddest decisions. It's like you want all the hate. Well, this time, you deserve it. EDIT: For anyone who's interested in the numbers, here's a spreadsheet somebody made looking at the Mythoclast and the Suros post 1.0.2.2 http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2j7vmy/my_friend_made_a_spreadsheet_comparing_vex/ And a video comparing first the Mythoclast pre- and post-patch, then the Mythoclast post vs. the Suros post http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2jk9fn/vex_mythoclast_vs_suros_regime_before_and_after/ EDIT 2: Since a lot of people seem to, as always, completely miss the point here (since the headline is not really what you think it is): I do respect your opinion (I don't much care for it, but there is respect), but while I do believe the Suros is too effective at too long a range (something exacerbated by the level design), I am not calling for a nerf. What I am confused and worried about are: - the way Bungie first stated that there should be variety in the Crucible, even acknowledged that the Suros Regime is still too powerful, then turn around and sell this proclaimed "too powerful" weapon to everyone (and apparently the next point was an influence on that); - the way people asking for the Suros on Twitter apparently influenced Xur's stock (and there must be a reason why a huge majority was asking for that particular gun, whether it's for true reasons or just perception); - the almost inevitable nerf of the Suros that will come out of it, resulting in an even more drastic negative backlash from the community than what happened with the Mythoclast; It feels like Bungie and Destiny turn into a split personality, trying to appease everyone - and that never turns out well. EDIT 3: A few more points: Shotguns are indeed wide-spread - but they are (except for one) Special Weapons, and they only really fill a niche. It's a great fill for that particular niche mind you, but that's more about people's playstyles and the map-design. If you get close enough to a Shotgun, you die. There are quite a lot of tight corridors and corners for people to take full advantage of the Close-Range Shotguns, but there are equally a decent number of longer-range engagement places, and that is still something where ARs, especially the Suros, excel - even beat the designated medium/long-range guns like Scout-Rifles and Pulse Rifles. That ARs should beat those weapons at close-range is a given and understandable, but if any gun or gun-type can beat another in more than one range, there's a balancing issue. Suros Regime is a special case, as the "slower-shooting but more damage" perk in ADS turns it into a Rapid-Fire, Full-Auto Scout Rifle with a range that is adequate for most if not all engagements on the relatively small maps we have right now. Post 1.0.2.2 hotfix, the Suros does 36 Crit damage in the Crucible, and with the Hammer Forged Perk, it has a Range comparable to most legendary Scout Rifles. Yet, the fire-rate and stability are much higher than Scout Rifles (except maybe Vision of Confluence, but that one won't be for sale), making it even at those ranges more effective, as it can fire three or more shots in the time most Scouts can fire one. Scouts, post hotfix, do 76 critical damage, which makes the Suros do about 108 dmg in the time the Scout can do 76. Sure, it can be beaten. The Mythoclast could be beaten even pre-fix. But it takes a lot more work to beat it consistently, or to do well against it consistently, than it takes a Suros User to do well against you. And, as the graph and that video above show, it's not "useless" as many people claim after the patch. Personally, I don't ask for a Suros damage nerf, but I would like for either the ADS fire rate to be lowered, or for incoming headshots from SRs, PRs and HCs causing a lot more flinch, making it harder for Suros users to just stand there, take the punishment and still win at longer ranges (there's also that chance for Health Regeneration the Suros gives when dealing damage). A reduction in effective range should also be considered. It's a pity there are no private games to test this out in a controlled setting, but I am pretty confident of these numbers. And those numbers state a balancing issue with the Suros. Yet, giving people the chance to buy one of the undoubtedly most effective weapons in the game in pretty much every engagement outside of Shotgun range, will flood the game, especially PvP, with that same weapon. And that's a problem. Imagine you just started out, and in a few days, you'll go into the Crucible. Where A LOT of your deaths will come at the hands of the Suros Regime - at least compared to other primary weapons. Oh, sure, there will be other weapons, the Mythoclast, the Final Word, Monte Carlo, Hexcaster, Atheon's Epilogue, but the Suros will most likely be the most common. For most people, they'll see themselves as being left with only two options: Either you try and get one for yourself. But seeing as you'll need to be level 20 to use it and have a lot of luck to get it - unless they'll sell it a third time - that will lead to quite a lot of frustration when playing the Crucible (which will lead to people complaining about why they didn't get the chance to buy it). Or you'll ask for the (quite understandable) nerf to bring it in line with most other weapons. Now, that could lead into a whole different discussion about matchmaking and how it should take levels into account, but the fact of the Suros Regime's power still remains. And I can only speak for myself, but I would HATE to play a game where everyone runs around with the same weapons, the same built, the same everything, just to make things "even". And the really funny thing is, that all the people that are so happy now that they've gotten this great weapon that everyone used to kill them with, will perpetuate the cycle of inevitable balancing - and then will be very unhappy that their hoped-for "super-gun" will not be so super anymore. In the end, I feel that Xur selling any Primary Exotics was a huge mistake. Specials or Heavys, okay, but not Primary Weapons. Also, I really HATE how the Suros sounds when fired in ADS: Pew, pew, pew, pew ;)
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  • Edited by Luomo10: 10/25/2014 12:02:27 AM
    They said Suros was too effective. So now that they have a bigger data range...they can more effectively tell what tweaks are needed. I have quite a few gripes with bungie atm but this one actually makes sense.

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  • If the suros is so easy to get and so op, why doesn't everyone get it? The crucible will be equal, as far as primaries go and people will stop complaining about unfairness.

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    • I out shoot SUROS all the time with a pulse rifle at mid-range. This isn't the best thing around

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    • Great gun and I'm happy it's in sale. I completed hard vault of glass twice and done every mission since it came out. I saw players half as good as me running with this gun. Still now I have unlocked it. I don't use it. Shadow price and grin citizen with mag upgrade puts me in beast mode. Thanks for adding the suros for strange coins option. I missed Xur for the first three weeks.......

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    • I have the Suros Regime but I don't play crucible unless it's necessary, but I see where you're coming from. [spoiler]would you mind if I posted a link to help support my topic post?...[/spoiler]

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    • I bought it just to piss off OP

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      • TLDR

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      • Yes I bought it. But I still prefer my shadow price over it. The shadow price and suros regime have basically the same stats but the regime has better perks. I bought it just so I can see for myself if it's op or not. I'm pretty sure that when I play crucible I'm still going to average 3000-4000 points a game no matter what weapon I use. Different guns suit different play styles. I'm sure someone who dominates with a scout rifle isn't going to completely change their style for a certain weapon.

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        • 3 words. The Last Word. Shit wrecks Suros all day every day, except cross map of course. If I wasn't enjoying my vm so much, I'd still be rocking it as my pvp wep.

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          • Then use the shadow price I drop the suros everytime and I use mine mostly in pve

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          • Bungie doesn't hand pick which items Xur sells. Those are randomly picked from a set group of exotics which includes the Suros. And I don't think the fact that people gravitate toward the Suros is because Bungie designed it to be the greatest gun in the game or anything like that. It's still going to get some kind of adjustment soon. Also people assume it's such a great weapon partly because of how hyped up and OP the forums make it SEEM. Same with the Bladedancer. It is a powerful gun, like many other exotics. People who are good at using Auto Rifles can make it seem OP and then people begin to whine and others begin to imitate and buy a Suros as well. Even so I don't notice any majority of players using it, it comes up just as much as any other and it doesn't change the nature of the game.

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          • I agree completely with you, unfortunately I won't be joining you in the suros vs the rest fight, good luck.

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          • There is heaps of variety in crucible, it's is as follows auto rifle - shotgun - rocket launcher, that's 3 whole weapons

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          • I just hate how it sounds. I think the damage if fine. I still beat people using it.

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          • So everyone bought it now? Don't seems so XD played on Crucible and nothing has changed, good weapons doesn't make trash gold.

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          • The OP is OP haha

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          • I've been saying this since the beginning, they need to take better control over Xur, sell variety and not the same OP gun that started this mess. Now it's guaranteed that auto rifles are going to receive another nerf.

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          • Fight it the way you fight a scout. Tactical movement, get in closer then they'd like then blast'um. 9 times out of ten the average user won't have the presence of mind to hipfire from the start. They will flinch, they will flinch, and may die first. Its beatable. Adjust your strategy, no prob Bob.

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          • Lol cry more

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          • Cool how many coins is it?

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            • and here comes another nerf "fu pvp"

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            • You make it sound like Bungie actually decides what to give Xur for the weekend. Surprise. There's a Loot Table. The table available for the weekend is determined by RNG. No actual human is behind Xur's wares.

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            • my vex is better than suros !

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              • I didn't buy it, I'm completely content with Shadow Price, and I rarely go into the crucible or use an AR so I really didn't need it. Xur never has anything I want so I just buy the engrams off of him every week.

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                • I actually prefer Shadow Price over Suros Regime. I got it as a drop, when I was considering buying it from the Vanguard Quartermaster. It has different stats from the Quartermaster's, increasing reload speed with two different perks. Other than that, I enjoy Hard Light.

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                • I hope they would've sold red death I'm a big pulse rifle guy and I didn't have the game when xur sold it the first time.

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