Bull crap. I have 579 hours in Terraria. That was like five bucks. Twelve times the money, about one fourth of the hours (being generous, it's actually smaller than that). So that averages about 48x more expensive per playtime. I got "something" for $60... but it wasn't $60-worth of game. I paid for the game that Bungie and Activision were talking about, but have yet to deliver on. As I said, I'm trying to be patient. I stopped playing all that much about 2 weeks ago. Two weeks. Why would I have stopped, if not for feeling the game is not worth my time, when I have SOOOOO much time to spend? (emphatic, not sarcastic) You want to know why we feel we deserve story and such from them? Because that was the game we were promised. We got the shell of this game called Destiny, but it's [b]not[/b] the same game. What I got was a $20 value at most. Maybe $15. I want my money's worth, and I [i]am[/i] willing to wait for it to come... but by wait, I mean that I'm not going to judge Destiny as a whole as crap until I see where they start to take it. But that doesn't make it not worth $60. That doesn't make me not want my money's worth. That doesn't make me not want a full game to enjoy on its release. If it was intended to be an early start, they should market it as such. They should tell us "Chapter I: Beginnings" so we know inherently that this is all exposition. We were promised story in our game, and we bought our game, and all of the lore and story is tucked away in pieces in the grimoire, and almost everything is withheld from us. We want THAT. We want what we were told there would be, but isn't. That's why I'm being patient: because I trust Bungie's word that there will be this and that in the game. And for now, this is not the game. I just want the game to be here before the DLC... because that would be crap. I paid for the disk, and I have to get the DLC before I can get the game that was supposed to be on the disk? No, not okay. I want to know the story is at least coming... But we weren't told it's coming, or that this is the first part, or such. The story promised? There was no story in the missions. They were "Go here and kill this guy" and a lot of "protect me" horde modes (that didn't matter if you protected him, just a reason to keep shooting the gun); if I wanted that sort of braindead shooting, I'd go play CoD. But I'm not playing CoD, and I'm barely playing Destiny because there is no "become legend" to it. The raid is about the only place where there's any sort of variety from that repetitive gameplay. Yes, you still shoot a gun... but holding sync plates, jumping challenges, a mark/cleanse system, fighting enemies within a specific time, using portals to separate the team but have teamwork to keep them working together from far away, and a boss that is more than just a bullet sponge because there's a strategy to making him weaker? A totally different game experience. The very few epic enemies (which really just means trash mobs have shields making them the toughest enemy) are even a little different, where you can't just run in all Rambo and succeed without really trying. They could easily make epic patrols or story elements to give you reason to go on. For now, you're just a zombie with a gun told to shoot at things, and so you do. Why? Who are we protecting (not where)? Where did we come from / who were we before? What all do you know, O Mr. Speaker, about the darkness and the traveler? If you [i]could[/i] tell us about the darkness, or the traveler, or the stories from before, or what sort of life we came from, etc... why don't you? Don't tell us you could, tell us there's a story there, but refuse to tell us the story. Tell us that we can know in the future. Tell us it's a lot to handle, and you'll reveal it over time. Tell us, Bungie, that this ten-year-plan includes a series of chapters to this story, not just ten-year support. Ten years of support is regular for any MMO, but support can mean as little as keeping the servers open to fixing bugs and problems and dealing with bans and the likes. That's what we feel we deserve, and we paid for at least that much. Just because you relinquished your money without a care as to the purchase being unfair from what we were told we were buying doesn't mean we all didn't still pay for that much. We paid for the game Bungie said we were getting. We didn't get that game. We deserve that game because that's what we paid for.

You may have gotten Terraria on sale as it is still $9.99 on steam. It was more expensive when it first became popular. Terraria also had zero story to it. It was an open sandbox. It was fun too. I personally put nowhere near the amount of time into Terraria as I have Destiny. What's your definition of a full game? Terraria is lacking in a lot of elements that Destiny has. Do you consider Terraria a full game? Is there a certain number of hours that you consider a full game? Is there a specific amount of story/cutscenes? Please define your definition of a full game. Give some constructive feedback on what you would like to see. The story is there in Destiny. You don't even have to look in the grimoire. The grimoire does expand upon the story but it is not necessary. [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/71798165/0/0]Destiny's Story[/url] This guy details it pretty well in his post. In the story they mention from the very beginning. "You're going to see a lot of things you won't understand" Then at the end of the story they tell you "There is so much more, Guardian. All ends are beginnings... Our fight is far from over." There is more story coming. There will be 10 years of the Destiny story. Bungie has said from the very beginning that Destiny will have a 10 year life cycle. The story is about you being a guardian. You are blindly following orders. That is part of the story. Are you fighting for the right side or are you blindly doing the will of someone/something evil? Bungie has said they are using the 10 years to deliver more story/content. It's not just supporting the server for 10 years with no updates. They are planning 4 major release expansions with smaller dlc expansions to fill in the gaps. Destiny has one giant epic story that will be told in parts and we will learn more as we go along. I don't remember Bungie ever saying we will know everything that is going on after finishing Destiny. We were given a story that had 10-12 hours of content in the campaign and multiplayer. We were given a raid after launch for 6 person fireteams. These were the things promised and what we got. An analogy is that you've just read the first book in an epic series, such as lord of the rings, the dark tower, or wheel of time. There are a lot of unanswered questions that you have. Some will be answered in the following books, some will unfortunately forever remain unanswered. It will be a journey that you and your guardian will take. It sounds like you paid for the first book and you are upset that you don't know the complete series story and don't feel like you should have to pay for the remaining books in the series.

I'm upset that I bought a book with half of the pages torn out. I'm as upset that they took The Hobbit and split it into three movies. I'd have been happy with LotR at six movies even, because that's actually six books (two books per actual binding). But I was genuinely upset that they made An Unexpected Journey which is all exposition to the real conflict in the story. It's mini conflicts, and the movie tries to make you ignore the story's main conflict, giving you only set-up to the REAL purpose of the book's story. Desolation of Smaug actually contained effort at handling the conflict, though failing to resolve it, so I'm less upset at that one, but I know the third movie still contains the actual resolution, and am a bit upset they stretched a small book so thin just to get more money out of it. And they stretched a weak story over the gameplay of Destiny that it may as well not even be called a story. I'm assuming you read that story breakdown too... and there's only small story when you piece together hours of gameplay. What you're actually doing has very little to do with it. The only things that matter are when you pull out your ghost, building a book one letter at a time. We were told you could see a mountain, and walk to it. We were told that we'd be rewarded for exploration. We didn't get either of those. What we got was a mission-driven game, not story-driven. The difference here is that the only reason to keep playing is to do the next job. In a story-driven one, your story is strong enough to pull players, to make them want to keep going to find out more, where the story keeps their focus, and inspires them to do the mission, rather than the mission inspiring them to find the hidden story. Terraria's features had what they told you would be there. They provided you with plenty of content before you could say "I've done everything I can". They stuck to their promise saying more was coming, and expanded near everything to the game, save for the map size which was already incredibly huge with more to explore than you could hope for. They were able to take their endgame and make it a halfway point. We got all of the features they said, and then some. We got everything we were promised, and they still added more. The expansion updates really did give us more reason to love the game, not a final completion to what we were told would be there at launch. When the game left beta, everything was there. We were told what we were purchasing, and we got every last feature promised at official launch. The features we were told would be there are not; if this were announced as a beta of sorts (maybe call it a gamma test? the fact a new name is needed is kinda sad) it would be a fair bit different, since we would come to expect an incomplete game without all of the features we were promised. The story we were told would be there is not. The expansions to the game are not expanding, but clarifying. They aren't adding, they're completing. They aren't giving, they're owing. That's what makes it so incomplete.

LotR was actually meant to be one book as Tolkien envisioned it but the publisher forced him to break it up into smaller chunks. I thought the splitting of The Hobbit was a little strange as it was originally one book and not very long at that. It felt like they were trying to unnaturally extend it to be more epic. The story in destiny starts out with there being no hope for mankind. It's only a matter of time before Earth is overrun by the darkness. Through your journies as a guardian you find out that the Hive have been siphoning the light from the traveler so you stop them and allow the shard to return to the traveler. Now that the traveler has started healing he needs time. You set out to defeat the heart of the black garden to slow down the Vex and give the traveler the time it needs to heal. At the end of the story mankind now has a new hope for survival. They know they can fight back and they now stand a chance. It's kind of similar to the first star wars ep 4 in that regard. The game is meant to be experienced through your eyes as a guardian who was just resurrected and is out of touch with the world. The things you do in the game do matter to the story. In the developer note they said that everything you saw was playable terrain. They also state "that they hope to take you to one day". They never said it would be there from the start. Playable terrain just means that your character could walk all over it as it's not just a static image backdrop that a lot of games use. if they took down the kill wall you could walk all over it, there would just be nothing to do there as there is no content for those areas yet. The dead ghosts and grimoire are the rewards for exploration. There are also some cool areas in the game that will probably be used later on in the story.RAS-2 is one of those places on Earth. As for mission driven, There are specific story missions that you can follow that is the main story. There are also side quest missions. They have different icons. I'm not sure I understand your argument about story driving the mission versus mission driving the story. In most games you have a level or a mission or a quest that you do and then you proceed with the next one. If you don't like the game you stop playing at some time. Regardless of either one you do the same thing you play the next level or do the next thing to get the story. In Terraria they have constantly expanded the game. They have done so over time though. Over the last year they've released a lot of extra stuff. Destiny is still in the first couple of months. They've already released the raid and had some minor events happen. It's still early in the life cycle thoguh. I think the big thing with your Terraria example is that your expectations were low. It was a pre-release game that was still in development. Since your expectations were low everything they did to add to it was bonus. In Destiny people had super high expectations and so everything Bungie does feel deserved or not enough. People I've talked to on the forum really thought that open-world meant they were going to be able to walk over the entire surface of the moon as well as the other planets. Those are expectations that are way too high. In Destiny they never stated how much of the total story we would receive when the game launched. They did verify that the game would have a 10 year lifecycle of content and support. We will have to disagree on your last statement as I see them expanding the story with the DLC. I see them adding to what is already there in the game. They aren't giving these features away as they are in the DLC which we are being charged for. They don't owe them to us. The game you received had a story and you got 154+ hours out of the game. By most standards people would say you got your $60 worth out of it. Whether you choose to continue with Destiny and play the DLC is up to you. I would recommend waiting for the reviews to see whether it meets your expectations or not and if it doesn't then you don't have to buy or play it. You may say it's repetitive but yet I've seen people playing this game daily and have been doing so for the last 2 months. Not many games have that type of draw to them. There must be something there that people are enjoying or they would have stopped long ago.

Except a lot of people ARE stopping... This is probably your most understanding post so far, and making me dislike you a fair amount less, so kudos for making a breakthrough. It makes your point all the more valid. I have explored beyond the kill volumes and invisible walls, and there most certainly is walkable land beyond... but it's a real slap in the face that it's been provided, but you're being denied. I understand Terraria has made most of its development AFTER release, but the point was it's still there AT release. The expansions gave us more than promised, rather than what was promised. They gave us things we never asked for, things we didn't know we wanted. Destiny has yet to deliver on its initial promises of what the game would be. Perhaps it still will be, and I'd like to think it will; but expansions are coming, and yet we still don't have what we were told we'd have, which is a far cry from example Terraria's release. I know Tolkien wanted to make it one book, and the Trilogy book did it much justice (no more war paper shortage), but the fact still remains that there are still 6 books, six separate stories, in three movies, compared to one story stretched thin over three movies. At least Harry Potter could be smartly divided into movies #7 and 8, with two major arcs in the last (huge) book. They're also one story in a manner similar to the Lord of the Rings, but make logical sense to be divided as they are. "I have given some thought to the matter of sub-titles for the volumes, which you thought were desirable. But I do not find it easy, as the 'books', though they must be grouped in pairs, are not really paired; and the middle pair (III/IV) are not really related. Would it not do if the 'book-titles' were used: e.g. The Lord of the Rings: Vol. I The Ring Sets out and The Ring Goes South; Vol. II The Treason of Isengard, and The Ring goes East; Vol. III The War of the Ring, and The End of the Third Age'? If not, I can at the moment think of nothing better than: I The Shadow Grows, II The Ring in the Shadow, III The War of the Ring or The Return of the King." -JRRT. Volume 2, "The Two Towers" shouldn't even be grouped together, and there are six separate stories that combine into the one arc of the ring returning to Mordor. It's relative in that the game has the feel of being half of The Ring Sets Out, with the first real expansion to the game concluding The Ring Sets Out, instead of being The Ring Goes South. That's where it feels incomplete... not that it feels like a piece of an overall story arc. I get that you don't feel or see that incompleteness, and I half fear you never will; as such, it's probably best for you that you don't. Ignorance is bliss, and all; you're better off not feeling that way. But at least understand how the rest of us feel. Understand we feel the game is lacking on its basic promises, with too much being told will actually come in DLC and expansions far off, instead of giving us the game they promised. We want what we were told there'd be, because our purchase was for that; and that is not this, ergo we're upset. [quote]What have you done to deserve anything from Bungie? they created a game in which you paid $60 for. Why do they owe you anything else? Why do you feel so entitled?[/quote] What have we done? We bought the game Bungie told us we were buying, but feel they haven't delivered on their end. I'm not calling for Bungie to divulge all of their secrets or tell me everything in development, but a lot of us feel Bungie hasn't given us what we paid for. THAT is why we're upset. Could you please at least understand that much? It's not a point of we're right and you're wrong; it's a point of we feel this way, and this is why, so please understand because you did ask.