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10/18/2014 7:47:07 PM
43
I've heard of it and seen it. It's called paying attention. But I understand that's a rare ability among those who dwell on the net.
English
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Edited by Senor Crouch: 10/20/2014 3:58:12 PMTrue there is a story to Destiny, but the biggest problem about it is that you are just told about it. The players don't actually get to experience it, there is no drive for the player. Now what do I mean by that? I'll explain through examples. The Fallen, you are told by your Ghost that they are bad and that they wish to wipe out humanity or something along those lines. You kind of get that sense while running through the Breach in the Cosmodrome. But that's really it. Okay. Now let's look at the introduction of the Covenant. You aren't told they are bad, you see it, you feel it. They invade the Pillar of Autumn and start mowing down your fellow soldiers in droves and you know without a shadow of a doubt that if they get the chance they will do the same to you. And from that you know you have to stop them. The Hive. You get a quick introduction to the Hive when you open that door in the Cosmodrome. Something about how they live on the Moon and your Ghost didn't expect them to be on Earth. You are told they are bad news and that there is a Wizard among them which you are told that he's REALLY bad news (just to try and emphasize how bad he is so that hopefully you have some drive to kill it). Okay. Now let's look at the Flood, the intro to the Flood is so gripping. You find yourself in this dark, musky Forerunner temple trying to rescue a squad of soldiers. You hear Covenant in the background fighting and getting slaughtered. Something doesn't feel right about it. You get to the deepest chamber and suddenly the Flood break loose on you. Suspenseful music plays and you wind up screaming like a little girl, shouting, "WHAT THE HELL ARE THOSE THINGS!?" And start firing bullets indiscriminately. It is later when you try to save Commander Keys that you are shown, not told, why the Flood are so bad. They are parasites that transform any organism into one of them. The Vex, an evil that hates other evil, but beyond that I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain even though I just spent time explaining to you that it hates other evil. Your Ghost further emphasizes the Vex's evilness by telling you that they transformed Mercury into one of their machines in a matter of days. Cool story Brah, YouTube video or fake. But because of this you are told they have to be stopped. Okay. Now let's take a look at 343 Guilty Spark and his command over the Sentinels. How this plays out is fun, you get introduced to 343 and he tells you that he has a solution to the Flood outbreak. The Flood are so creepy, disturbing, and horrific that you immediately follow Eyeball 3000. He floats around as he takes you to the key and laughs while you are fighting off the Flood. You quickly become annoyed by his lack of help. You further get enraged when he reveals that he controls an army of Sentinels which would have come in SOOOO handy 30 minutes ago. Finally when you find out from Cortana what the Rings really do, that just puts you over the edge and you want to tear 343 to shreds. You aren't told he's bad, in fact at that point you no longer really care that he's trying to wipe out every living organism, you just want revenge on him for being an annoying prick. Again, nothing is told in Halo, it is all shown and felt by the player and that engages the player to move forward in the story and makes the player actually care about what they are doing. It provides motivation. In Destiny, sadly, everything is just told to you and you are just supposed to accept it. You are told that all these factions, from the Fallen to the Cabal, are bad, but you never experience it. You go to the Tower and are told, "Now the children are frightened anyways." Where? Show me one frightened child. It just seems like everyone is going about their day to day business and that nothing is crucially wrong. So it is hard for us, the player, to feel a sense of urgency when you get a transmission from the Speaker saying, "Nothing is more important now. We believe the Hive are engaged in a ritual that is draining the Traveler of its light." when you have transmissions such as "Hey, Holiday here, I'm working on something back here at the Tower, its uh.....you know what your Ghost can give you the details." There is a disconnect. So much so that when you finally kill the Heart of the Black Garden, you are left asking yourself, "Did we just kill all the Vex...or wait what did we just do? I'm confused. Did I really do something extraordinary?" And when you get back to the Tower and everyone is still doing the same thing, the player feels the answer to the previously asked question is a resounding, "Nope." Whether that's true or not, in terms of the story, it is what the player feels in the end.
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[quote]Now what do I mean by that? I'll explain through examples. The Fallen, you are told by your Ghost that they are bad and that they wish to wipe out humanity or something along those lines. You kind of get that sense while running through the Breach in the Cosmodrome. But that's really it. Okay. Now let's look at the introduction of the Covenant.[/quote] We weren't told anything of the sort. In the opening scene, we are shown the Fallen crawling over the ruins of Old Russia stalking our Ghost. After we are revived, we are told Old Russia is 'Fallen Territory' and that 'we aren't safe here'. So we head to the Wall as Fallen hunting calls echo in the background, and as we enter the Breach, we are attacked by hordes of Dregs and Vandals trying to kill us. [quote]You aren't told they are bad, you see it, you feel it. They invade the Pillar of Autumn and start mowing down your fellow soldiers in droves and you know without a shadow of a doubt that if they get the chance they will do the same to you.[/quote] We 'saw and felt' that the Fallen were bad, we weren't just told it. [quote]. You find yourself in this dark, musky Forerunner temple trying to rescue a squad of soldiers. You hear Covenant in the background fighting and getting slaughtered. Something doesn't feel right about it. You get to the deepest chamber and suddenly the Flood break loose on you. Suspenseful music plays and you wind up screaming like a little girl, shouting, "WHAT THE HELL ARE THOSE THINGS!?"[/quote] When we are introduced to the Hive, we find ourselves in the ruins of an old array station while investigating why the Fallen are so interested in the area. You open the gate to the Lunar Complex, and you find yourself in in the dark surrounded by strange growths and eerie crystals. As you move further in, suspenseful music plays, and you are swarmed by legions of Hive thralls.My initial playthrough of this level during the Beta gave me the same rush the Flood did in Halo. [quote] It is later when you try to save Commander Keys that you are shown, not told, why the Flood are so bad. They are parasites that transform any organism into one of them.[/quote] This was told to us long before we encountered Keyes by Guilty Spark. Destiny does the same. It tells us that something is evil/harmful, and then it shows us. [quote]The Vex, an evil that hates other evil, but beyond that I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain even though I just spent time explaining to you that it hates other evil. [/quote] Uhm, no. Our Guardian asked the Stranger why she had been following us. That is what she said she didn't have time to explain. [quote]Cool story Brah, YouTube video or fake. But because of this you are told they have to be stopped.[/quote] No. This piece of information is only given to us during the Eye of a Gate Lord mission, which is well after we begin our fight with the Vex. Our reason for fighting them is the same as our reason for fighting the other races. [quote]Again, nothing is told in Halo, it is all shown and felt by the player and that engages the player to move forward in the story and makes the player actually care about what they are doing. It provides motivation. In Destiny, sadly, everything is just told to you and you are just supposed to accept it.[/quote] Everything is told in Halo. Destiny, like Halo, tells us and shows us why we fight our enemies. [quote]You are told that all these factions, from the Fallen to the Cabal, are bad, but you never experience it.[/quote] Right. I experienced it when the Fallen tried to kill me on a regular basis, and when I came across their shrines full of human skulls on pikes scattered throughout the Cosmodrome. Same with the Hive, or when I see the Vex attempting to turn Venus into a replica of Mercury. [quote] So it is hard for us, the player, to feel a sense of urgency when you get a transmission from the Speaker saying, "Nothing is more important now. We believe the Hive are engaged in a ritual that is draining the Traveler of its light." when you have transmissions such as "Hey, Holiday here, I'm working on something back here at the Tower, its uh.....you know what your Ghost can give you the details." There is a disconnect[/quote] Uhm, what? The transmission from Holiday and those like it only occur during Patrols. Never during the story arcs. So what disconnect? [quote]So much so that when you finally kill the Heart of the Black Garden, you are left asking yourself, "Did we just kill all the Vex...or wait what did we just do? I'm confused. Did I really do something extraordinary?" And when you get back to the Tower and everyone is still doing the same thing, the player feels the answer to the previously asked question is a resounding, "Nope."[/quote] When we destroyed the Heart, we are told that the 'shroud of darkness' was lifting and that Light was returning to the Traveler. We are then shown this during the final cut scene as the Traveler grows brighter and begins to heal. Meanwhile, the Stranger tells us that the fight is far from over, and that more dangerous enemies are drawing ever closer. It was a great climax to the game.
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Edited by CEO: 10/20/2014 6:13:50 AMThe game's "plot": You're alive even though you were death, you must have so many questions, we will not answer a single one, not even try or start, so let's do stuff. Why? Because we light and they darkness. Warmind Rasputin. What did you say? Nevermind. Let's go to the moon. Why? That's where wizards come from. Lets visit their huge cave, every tourist guide recommends it. Oh someone just called us from Venus, that's neat, that call must have been expensive, let's go there. Oh finally someone will tell me something... ah ah you wish! "Darkness! I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain." Well can't you just call or text me later? You already have my little light's number (somehow, stalker...) oh she's gone... Well where is that black garden of "legends" that I never actually heard about? Let's ask for directions to some rude condescending people... Man, they really were ass holes, well to Mars! Did you know that during the collapse the vex pretty much turned mercury into a machine within days. What?! Nevermind that. Rasputin again. What are you talking about?!! And who are these fat guys I'm killing? Was the exclusion zone excluded because of them? Hmm forget about that let's go to the black garden... But why? Because a stranger told us, pay attention. In the black garden: oh look a big blob surrounded by dusty vex. What is it? What is it doing? Why is it doing it? How is it doing it? How do we even know it is affecting us? Does it matter? Shooting the robots will undoubtedly solve everything that is wrong with our high tech mini moon that seems to be sick for some reason. (Personally I think it needs a hug and a night light to be less afraid of the dark) Literally the exact moment we destroy the blob by killing its guards (because logic): oh look our mini moon back on earth seems to be better already, that was fast, also everyone seems to have noticed already too and the speaker that doesn't say anything useful is already calling us back to hear a speech that also doesn't say anything and makes him sound like the leader of a cult. Well ok... The stranger robot that for some reason has boobs: "you and I know the truth, the darkness is still out there". Well it better be because so far this game really needs a plot to go with the setting and universe (that actually sounds really interesting and full of potential). The end. For the actual plot stay tuned for the expansions. Bungie can't start selling them so soon after release, it would look bad, and they sure aren't going to give you for free the game they should have shipped! Destiny 1.0 feels like just the prologue (a very badly written prologue) of the first book in a series of several books but it should have felt like a first whole book in a series. Even the first halo game more than a decade ago told us more: we had just landed on a massive unknown ring in space after being attacked by the covenant, our enemy we were at war with. Eventually we found out what the ring was, why is was built, why the covenant were interested in it, what it would do if it was activated and why and how to stop it and that there were many others "facilities" like it. That set the tone, it had its own satisfying self contained plot that left plenty of room for a lot more than 10 years. I wish destiny 1.0 felt like that, I would be begging for DLC and the "10 years plan" (which by the way almost every new AAA game nowadays has). That would have been a great start for a franchise with such great ambitions. This is just "meh, it will be amazing eventually, maybe, hopefully". So far bungie's reputation and activision's marketing dollars are this game greatest "achievements". This game's plot is disappointing and just plain embarrassing. Especially after Bungie themselves said before launch that they wanted to tell a story that hopefully would be able to sit next to Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. It feels like there is no plot tying those repetitively designed missions together, it's as simple as that. (About "the plot is in the grimoire" comments. The grimoire doesn't have the plot, it has a few descriptions, curiosities, background info, like every single other sci-fi game has except this one is not in the game. The grimoire is like a small encyclopedia. I hear an encyclopedia is very different from a novel).
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Edited by Moonglow: 10/20/2014 2:47:44 PM[quote]You're alive even though you were death, you must have so many questions, we will not answer a single one, not even try or start, so let's do stuff. Why? Because we light and they darkness. [/quote] Plenty of our questions were answered. You'll have to be more specific. [quote]Warmind Rasputin. What did you say? Nevermind. Let's go to the moon. Why? That's where wizards come from. [/quote] Rasputin was a side-plot. And we went to the Moon because the highly aggressive alien species who haven't been on Earth in centuries have set up shop in Old Russia, and we are sent to investigate. [quote]Oh someone just called us from Venus, that's neat, that call must have been expensive, let's go there.[/quote] No, we went to Venus because 'the Stranger', who seemingly had access to advanced technology and had been watching us since the Temple of Crota, warned us of enemies there. [quote]Oh finally someone will tell me something... ah ah you wish! "Darkness! I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain."[/quote] She didn't have time to explain why she was following you. Instead, she focused on what was actually important at the moment, like the Vex, the Black Garden, and it's Heart, and how it's destruction would allow the Traveler to heal. [quote] Well where is that black garden of "legends" that I never actually heard about? [/quote] The Black Garden is mentioned in dialogue from NPC's at the Tower well before we hear of it from the Stranger. [quote]Did you know that during the collapse the vex pretty much turned mercury into a machine within days. What?! Nevermind that. Rasputin again. What are you talking about?!! [/quote] Rasputin. Is. a. Side-plot. The purpose of his story was to introduce him, nothing more and nothing less. And yes, the piece of information about the Vex is simply one piece of many that we were given on Venus. What of it? [quote]Hmm forget about that let's go to the black garden... But why? Because a stranger told us, pay attention. [/quote] The Stranger with access to highly advanced technology and intelligence who led us to the Vex told us. It doesn't take a genius to realize that she might know something we don't. [quote]In the black garden: oh look a big blob surrounded by dusty vex. What is it? What is it doing? Why is it doing it? How is it doing it? How do we even know it is affecting us? Does it matter? Shooting the robots will undoubtedly solve everything that is wrong with our high tech mini moon that seems to be sick for some reason. (Personally I think it needs a hug and a night light to be less afraid of the dark)[/quote] The Heart was a massive concentration of Darkness that was being worshiped by the Vex. You know, the same Darkness that crippled the Traveler and ended all human civilization? And we are told what it was doing once it was destroyed. It was maintaining a 'shroud of darkness' over the Traveler.
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Oh but she has time to be stalking us around since the very beginning of the game? We can see her for the first time when we get our first ship and leave the cosmodrome.
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Then tell us some legends or say that our ghost will get us up to speed! We literally know nothing not even when we died or how or how we were brought back to life, we know nothing about our enemies, how long ago was the golden age and how we somehow forgot everything from then but yet know how to use scraps from that technology to built ships, we are told nothing about how the mini moon is protecting the city, and we are never told any information about our ghost, are they just pooped out and the only thing they know is how to look for dead corpses? They have no information? No context? And the speaker says he now speaks for the traveller, then speak! Say something!
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Edited by CEO: 10/20/2014 5:41:51 PMYou really are grasping at straws... There is something called storytelling. Sometimes a game as great storytelling, sometimes is just ok, and sometimes is destiny level of bad. The story is crap, it's amateurish, there aren't any developed characters, not even slightly, they are just there to spit out "go there because darkness" that's all, all you are doing is using logic to intrepret that series of repetitively designed missions and turn into a sad excuse for a plot. You think what, that most people can't do that? That you are smarter and more discerning for being able to figure that basic plot from the game? Anyone with a brain that actually listens to the pathetically written dialog can figure that out. The point, genius, is that is bad quality, extremely bad, below the very standards that bungie set for themselves more than a decade ago with halo. I, as a consumer demand some level of quality from anything that I decide to spend time on, destiny 1.0's story does not reach that level, doesn't even get close, it was an embarrassing start for a game with such high expectations for itself, a complete waste of a universe that actually has a lot of potential. If that is enough for you than have fun, but if the expansions don't hugely improve on it, destiny is going to lose a lot of players, me included. I am 100% sure that even the people at bungie responsible for that story know, even though they will never admit it, how bad that game's story is. And if they don't then there isn't any hope of it getting better in the future. If mediocre is enough for you than fine, but it isn't for me, it never was, and right know the only reason bungie still has me as a player is because I think they are capable of better, if I knew right now that destiny wouldn't get better and what is coming is at the same level of mediocrity I you'd delete it and my character today. I am betting on bungie and hoping that I'm not wrong about they still having the talent for a great story, not just pretty skies and fun shooting.
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You did nothing to rebut anything I just said. Instead, you only offer opinion and claim I'm grasping at straws. Hum. [quote]The story is crap, it's amateurish, there aren't any developed characters, not even slightly, they are just there to spit out "go there because darkness" that's all, all you are doing is using logic to interpret that series of repetitively designed missions and turn into a sad excuse for a plot. [/quote] Ghost is developed plenty. And frankly, a game doesn't have to have fleshed out characters to have a good story. And I'm not 'interpreting' anything. I'm merely pointing out what the game provided to us.
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Edited by CEO: 10/20/2014 5:47:41 PMAs I said before: If mediocrity is good enough for you then have fun, destiny's story should be right up your league. I demand better of anything asking for my time. You said nothing that wasn't obvious already, and also said nothing that speaks to the quality of destiny's story. I find nothing to rebut in any of your posts. The storytelling is awful, the characters are not in any way developed, the dialog is badly written, even the missions script is repetitive. My counter argument to your defence to the lack of quality of destiny's story to anyone interested is just this: go play the game and pay attention to it. Destiny's story mediocrity is obvious enough to speak on its own, that someone thinks it's a good story or even average... Well is beyond me. Worse, that someone as you actually comes online to bungie's website to tell them that destiny's story was good enough for him when even them know perfectly well that it was well below par... Well, I don't know what to tell you, good for you to be so easily satisfied, but I hope they don't pay any attention to you and actually listen to all the feedback and general opinion that the story in destiny was disappointing and just bad. I have nothing further to say to you. Have a nice day and feel free to reply with some obvious typo or mistake I made in quote marks to make you feel smarter.
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Thanks for proving my point. Simply because you, personally, didn't like the story and found it to be mediocre doesn't mean anything other than that -you- didn't enjoy it. If you didn't like it, don't play the game or buy it's sequels. You've yet to prove that the 'storytelling was awful' or anything like it. But good day.
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Edited by CEO: 10/22/2014 2:09:47 PMAgain, you are satisfied with mediocrity, that is sad. The storytelling is extremely awful, it's not opinion, it's about the how the story is told not about the story it self. And the information and context you get on the world you are just brought to are only tiny scraps that sound like someone let slip something by accident and are never mentioned again. You travel around with a piece of the travellers light, an extremely advanced AI and yet it feels like Siri from any iPhone, something dumb programmed to resemble a personality to access information, in this case it just receives calls and interfaces with security systems to break them. How someone in 2014 can feel happy with such mediocrity and defend it, saying its ok for some more at the same level is completely beyond me. It's like having gps on your car and say that using a huge foldable paper map while you drive around is great and amazing. Your attitude and the stuff you say are the only arguments I need against your own "points", every time you reply you just help my case and are too dumb to get it. In a few weeks there will be many other games competing for my gaming time, it won't be like September when there was nothing else to play, if the expansions aren't better that is where my journey to "became legend" ends. I hope destiny gets better, especially the storytelling methods, the script, the repetitive missions, for me the current level of quality in these aspects is mediocre and I want better, potential isn't enough. Rationalise everything any way you want to be able to defend what even bungie knows it's bad storytelling. There is absolutely no point in talking to people like you. You will rationalise anything into convincing yourself that destiny has good storytelling. Come up with the most absurd excuses. I have no idea why. I hope it gets better, if it doesn't it will lose a lot of players once there is actually some competition. But I guess for you it doesn't matter, it's absolutely amazing already, congratulations. I don't care enough to bother continuing with this pointless argument. And I would appreciate if you stopped too.
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Wow...someone actually can defend that Destiny has a story?!!! What's next? That someone is also going to defend the 'story' in those Michael Bay Transformers movies as well?
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There is a story, but it's so pathetically lifeless no one can remember it. That's what they mean, people paid attention but there wasn't anything worth remembering or investing in. It was forgettable. So no need to be so elitist.
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So, the argument has went from 'There is no story!' to 'It's so bad that we just can't be bothered to remember it!'. I couldn't care less if you thought it was 'pathetically lifeless'. I enjoyed it, as did many other people.
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Wow you are actually defending the games story line. Bahahahaha
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The small tidbits of story given are pathetic and lifeless, what do you think of the stories overall length? It's detail and quality?
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It's what the writers should have done when they were butchering Joe Statan's story.
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Dude, there's such little story the spoiler alert button is useless because [spoiler]you go to places shoot stuff and do it again. In the final mission you shoot more stuff something explodes for some reason and you get a gun.[/spoiler]
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It's called grasping at straws.
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Who starts a sentence with "but". [spoiler] ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) [/spoiler]
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Lmao [spoiler]what a destocle[/spoiler]
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Then tell us of the story. Tell us of how glorious being told to go to this one place because I don't know and fight these enemies until dinklebot finishes scanning something amazing is a story that even makes sense.
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Go play the game, actually listen to dialogue, and then we'll talk. Because if you don't know why we went to the Moon, or to Venus, or to Mars, then you are either A. Trolling B. Mentally Deficient or C. All of the Above.
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Do you know?
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[quote]Go play the game, actually listen to dialogue, and then we'll talk. Because if you don't know why we went to the Moon, or to Venus, or to Mars, then you are either A. Trolling B. Mentally Deficient or C. All of the Above.[/quote] I pick B, I honestly don't remember the story and I've played through a few times. Can't remember why we went to the moon. I think we went to Venus for a gate keepers head. Then to Mars to fight a "god". That's about all I remember of the story.
