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10/18/2014 7:38:53 AM
249
Atheon Teleport Mechanics Update Feedback
I have not complained about any changes to this game.
- Loot Cave - okay, patch it (and you gave us a fun Easter Egg at that).
- Gun nerfs/buffs - you guys know best, you can watch how we play and address what's needed to provide multiple alternatives with weapon selection in PVP.
- Templar column - Even though I backed this as a "strategy", I only tried to help *one* group that insisted on it and my group has always had dedicated roles in that fight. We played the ground game and continue to do so, we're better and faster at it.
- Atheon "baby bumpers" - Yes, please. They're not necessary when you have a good team who play well together and know roles that we have unanimously determined by preference and vote. I didn't support the bug that broke him.
- Atheon's teleport behavior? - Please, Bungie, please. Most successful Raid teams have found that different members are better at different roles. This is a TEAM event. I, for one, am the dedicated Relic-holder for that fight. We've watched gameplay mechanics, we developed a system, a strategy, to break our group into two. Portal team does what needs to be done in the portals, and Gatekeeper team survives the hordes of suicidal Harpies, opens the necessary gate, and generally does the most damage to Atheon once Portal team is out, because we're busy getting ready to go back in again.
[b]The Atheon teleport change will break not only our strategy, but most successful teams' strategies.[/b] The fight will be utter chaos. Not everyone plays the same role in a team - that's what makes a TEAM. If we could all perform the same roles, we'd be interchangeable. Why stay together? Our group dynamics are great and we all get along well, but the glitches in Atheon's fight were tough enough to get through without someone raging. The deaths of a single dedicated member alone can make the fight unwinnable.
[b]We are using legitimate strategy there, Bungie.[/b] There is no unfair advantage, no taking advantage of unfair enemy behavior (some predictability is not a bad thing!), we just got our team 100% set this week! Not everyone can be expected to perform the same in a team. We all have strengths and weaknesses and that is part of what brings us together. [b]We fill in each other's gaps in playstyle to complete the group.[/b]
Please rethink this Atheon patch. "Baby bumpers" are great. Make the community fight for their victory! But don't completely trash mechanics that aren't broken. I know six of me could not beat this Raid, nor could six of any other gamer I know. Level playing fields are great, but don't take away our individual strengths.
Sorry for the long post. I have reposted this in the Feedback forum where it belongs, as I've asked others who post in the #destiny category. [b]I've always supported you guys and plan on continuing to... Don't break the Raid, please![/b]
English
#feedback
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1 ReplyBungie is just pissed that their "most difficult gaming experience" is getting beat so easily and quickly.
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Edited by wrath0ftheg0ds: 10/19/2014 6:50:31 AMBungie the raid is hard enough as is. Most of us understand what you are trying to accomplish. Yes the baby bumpers are a welcomed fix. Now people can't join and kill atheon just for the weapon they have to have some experience. But seriously? Random teleporting is too far. This is a team raid for a reason. Please don't ruin this. It will become complete chaos. The teleporting will make us look like chickens with their heads cut off. This is coming from players who have completed the raid dozens of times, there will be no more enjoyment in the raid. We work countless hours to prepare for one job. Example, guns that do damage to oracles are on the teleporting team along with people who are good at close range wield the shield. People who can survive the insane harpies stay back. But now it will be soo chaotic we won't even feel like a team!! I have met about 20 people I love playing with. We started a clan together, we understand each other's skills and weaknesses but what good will this do us? This raid will ruin the point of doing team raids.
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1 ReplyYou are joking right? How hard is it to jump up in the air and press rt then press lb to cleanse people? That's the relic. How hard is it to shoot at blinding Columns of light? It's that hard to clear supplicants? My god you guys act like its god damn rocket science. If you know the fight you can do any role.
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6 RepliesEdited by ThaGinjaNinja: 10/19/2014 4:15:51 AM[quote][url=/en/News/News?aid=12141]Let the Raiding Begin[/url][/quote] for the OP please read bungies initial release day statement on how difficult the raid should be and the ability for the team to be prepared in a variety of ways not just doing one thing... Its in the facts
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Edited by PAinKiLLa777: 10/19/2014 5:09:15 AMI totally agree all the fixes are needed except the random teleport one. If it was a bug it was a fluke on the devs behalf because the bugged mechanic enabled us to assign lighter work for less experienced players. You're making it harder for us to play with friends with less experience and alienating them completely. The social aspects of this game are terrible, with no ingame text chat it's already hard to get a group for alot of things & now you're making it harder to include the people I have in my friend list. I really don't want to segregate people I know because the suck at a certain part of a raid and are left with no choice but to do the thing they sick at.
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This is without a doubt a different a change of a different nature than the other things they've done, fixing the design flaws that made it possible to bypass the planned difficulties of the encounters. This seems more like a deliberate increase in challenge. I can see here that most people are in opposition to it, but to me it is a good change. But we'll see how I feel on Tuesday. It seems like a pretty dramatic change. I don't agree that this takes away roles, just fixed roles. Each time the portals open the roles will have to be claimed, so there will have to be some kind of strategy for that and it will have to happen relatively fast. Each person will potentially have to operate in each position and there will have to be some confidence and discipline in how it is executed and communicated. For example, you could have a convention where everyone who is teleported immediately fights for the relic. The relic carrier calls out which side, past or present, and then immediately assigns the two others, one to start on the first oracle and the other to help with the vex (if that is your way of doing the portals). So everyone has to know how everything works. You could have at most two people who would be guaranteed to not use the relic. You'd have to have every combination of people able to handle the harpies outside and keep the portals clear and every combination able to handle the vex and oracles inside. I could see it being hell for groups of random people, but maybe there will be fixed conventions that emerge that everyone will eventually be using. The easy mode version will mainly just be about execution still but now with more of a weakest link idea than before. On hard the weakest link thing maybe will also be about the gear and weaponry. So now if you beat it, it will be more about the winning strategy, group coordination and all six team members being an equally important part of the process. I think there is something really rewarding about that.
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Don't forget that people may have to change weapons for these roles. I use a sniper and scout rifle in either role, simply because I've found my setup does well nearly with whatever I do (or rather, I've gotten so into my weapons that I can find a way to make them work). My scout rifle explodes enemies on precision kills, turning supplicants against each other. My sniper regenerates ammo, so I can use it as much as I want against Atheon during his vulnerable moment. My scout rifle does decent damage allowing a few shots to kill Oracles. My sniper packs a strong punch and can hit oracles even when I'm blinded and can only see a glimmer of red light through the debuff, and need to make sure they're killed when anyone else would surely miss with their primaries. But my teammates... They use different primaries and specials for different roles. When one is asked to kill oracles, he specifically changes his hand cannon to an auto rifle that deals bonus damage. When one is on relic, he goes hand cannon / shotgun, just to deal with anything that gets near him; his normal loadout is pulse rifle / sniper. These people, and people like them, have different guns for different play styles when playing different jobs. These people are the ones getting screwed over here because they have to keep switching weapons between destroying oracles and defending against supplicants... and time can't be wasted when the oracles HAVE to be dealt with immediately, and when the portal HAS to be open by the time the last oracle is killed so the players inside can also help shoot the boss.
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Agreed
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Yes! Please bungie, listen to this post!
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Can't agree more Bungie, (this is coming from a seasoned MMO raider) the current teleport mechanics are great. They facilitate [b]teamwork[/b] and [b]coordination[/b] between the players in the raid, which should be the goal of all raid mechanics. A Titan with flashbang is one of the things my group prefers inside the portals, as well as 2 raiders with oracle disruptive weapons By contrast, that doesn't matter for our "defense team" and they bring different weapons to kill harpies/ burn Atheon. Making this mechanic random means the raid needs less teamwork and communication. Why bother making a plan if you're part of the "teleport lottery."
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Point well made, agree with everything you said, random teleports will add complete chaos to the raid and take away the ability to gear specifically for each task. We gear our relic holder for agility and armor, our oracle killers have weapons will bonuses to oracles and our survival teal is made up of warlocks for self revive. We have even tried to specialize our armor as best we can to take advantage of these tactics such as oracle hunters carry more ammo for their oracle weapons. Listen to him Bungie!
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Agreed!
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Yep 100%!! Agree!
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Agreed
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Totally agree with you. If they do this then it will spell disaster for the game as a whole.
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100% absolutely agreed. Please don't change this.
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+1 TOTALLY AGREE IN EVERY ASPECT
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Bungie, please for once look at the players.
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You're community has spoken Bungie. Random teleports will be a breaking point if you do it.
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All the other changes which were made recently, IMO, have been for the betterment of the game. The randomization of who Atheon teleports is unnecessary and foolish at best. I think it will hurt the community more than help make the raid hard because the groups with solid players will still be able to get through it. It may take a bit of getting used to but it is not impossible. The problems is most people do not have a set group and even if they do not everyone is good at everything, it"s just human nature for some people to be bad. Don't place undo stress on a game community which is still very much in its infancy. There are not enough ways to communicate with people in game and even on the Xbox network. Any game which has a "Raid" design relies heavily on its community and the communities ability to communicate. Which as of right now are very lacking. Fix the bugs yes, but give it a bit before you start changing boss mechanics.
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I agree in the weekly update reply. I agree here. Fix the bugs, fix the exploit, but leave the encounter mechanics the way they have been since day 1. No need for artificial difficulty modifiers, the fight, when done properly, is already complicated as is.
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I agree--don't randomize the teleport. If this is how future content and DLCs will be, I doubt I'll be spending money to check them out. I just don't find this kind of thing enjoyable.
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This is the first update I've actually had issues with. The raid is too complex and strategic for matchmaking, but now the final boss' primary mechanic is totally random? Why take the most fun and strategic fight in the game and turn it into a total random mess? Seriously, who thought randomizing Atheon's teleports would be a good idea? I haven't seen a single person in the community who isn't against this. This needs to be nipped in the bud. All the other items are great; Atheon shouldn't be knocked off the edge, Templar shouldn't be cheesed from a pillar. But randomizing the Timestream? Bad idea, guys.
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This seems to be something no one brings up but what about new guys I know I'm not the only raider who trys to bring atleast a couple of new guys on the raid every week this update will stop people from doing that almost indefinitely you'll want only the best team overall you can't assign a new guy an easier role until they learn the ropes and get better now those guys won't even get a chance they'll simply never get picked up anymore this update is a horrible idea
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2 RepliesEdited by AlmostUseful: 10/18/2014 4:40:57 PMLike I've said in two different threads. They want everyone to go through the portal at some point? Fine, just don't make it random. Random isn't a true challenge, it's artificial. I still want planning to go into my victory, not completely random brute force. Make it so the first 3 people who went through can't go through the following portal and the other 3 have to go. That way, everyone has to go at some point, yet tactics, strategy, and planning are still involved in the overall victory.
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This is the first change that I feel is actually a bad choice. The point of raids is cooperation and teamwork. You can't strategize against random. Mechanics should be hidden but discoverable. Planning and learning to work the mechanics should not be frowned upon.
