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Edited by Fragmented Hero:
10/18/2014 7:41:02 AM
527
I have not complained about any changes to this game.
- Loot Cave - okay, patch it (and you gave us a fun Easter Egg at that).
- Gun nerfs/buffs - you guys know best, you can watch how we play and address what's needed to provide multiple alternatives with weapon selection in PVP.
- Templar column - Even though I backed this as a "strategy", I only tried to help *one* group that insisted on it and my group has always had dedicated roles in that fight. We played the ground game and continue to do so, we're better and faster at it.
- Atheon "baby bumpers" - Yes, please. They're not necessary when you have a good team who play well together and know roles that we have unanimously determined by preference and vote. I didn't support the bug that broke him.
- Atheon's teleport behavior? - Please, Bungie, please. Most successful Raid teams have found that different members are better at different roles. This is a TEAM event. I, for one, am the dedicated Relic-holder for that fight. We've watched gameplay mechanics, we developed a system, a strategy, to break our group into two. Portal team does what needs to be done in the portals, and Gatekeeper team survives the hordes of suicidal Harpies, opens the necessary gate, and generally does the most damage to Atheon once Portal team is out, because we're busy getting ready to go back in again.
[b]The Atheon teleport change will break not only our strategy, but most successful teams' strategies.[/b] The fight will be utter chaos. Not everyone plays the same role in a team - that's what makes a TEAM. If we could all perform the same roles, we'd be interchangeable. Why stay together? Our group dynamics are great and we all get along well, but the glitches in Atheon's fight were tough enough to get through without someone raging. The deaths of a single dedicated member alone can make the fight unwinnable.
[b]We are using legitimate strategy there, Bungie.[/b] There is no unfair advantage, no taking advantage of unfair enemy behavior (some predictability is not a bad thing!), we just got our team 100% set [i]this week[/i]! Not everyone can be expected to perform the same in a team. We all have strengths and weaknesses and that is part of what brings us together. [b]We fill in each other's gaps in playstyle to complete the group.[/b]
Please rethink this Atheon patch. "Baby bumpers" are great. Make the community fight for their victory! But don't completely trash mechanics that aren't broken. I know six of me could not beat this Raid, nor could six of any other gamer I know. Level playing fields are great, but don't take away our individual strengths.
Sorry for the long post. I will be reposting this in the Feedback forum where it belongs, as I've asked others who post in the #destiny category. [b]I've always supported you guys and plan on continuing to... Don't break the Raid, please![/b]
Edit: Providing a link to the Feedback thread, as requested.
http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/73650422
English
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I totally agree with this. Unlike others, I have been behind on these exploits so I have no complaints about patching loot cave, atheon, or nerfing - but DO NOT randomize the teleporting. There is NOTHING wrong with it. Destiny, especially the raid - as others have repeatedly said, is about TEAMWORK. Teams have positions. What is a team when there is no organization? There have been many times that the game ends because one person was teleported who wasn't on the Portal Team. Do not fix what is not broken. You've been doing alright in my eyes so far Bungie, and I've spent a lot of money on you and this game for you to start messing with things like this that have become elementary strategy and tradition.
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Edited by CptPimp2269: 10/18/2014 3:09:40 PMI agree, there taking a fun game to play and telling us how we should play. Bungie wants to fix the game for players give us xp for doing the raid, or how bout a legendary drop once and a while. Let us play the way it's fun to us, fix whatever on the pvp side that does need to be fair, but the campaign should be determined by the player. Keep screwing the game up good luck on the next destiny sequel.
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I thought I'd be playing destiny for a loooong time, but at this rate, I'll drop it as soon as Farcry 4 comes out.
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The problem is the everybody is using the same strategy..and now there is a certain way to conquer the VoG. They actually want this to be hard...not something you can just breeze thru for great gear.
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Edited by Johnny Five: 10/18/2014 3:45:48 PMThe point of Raids. is to improve. all the raids ive done in other games, have never had an asinine idea like this. its straight forward. Do this, do this, rinse and repeat til boss is dead. NEVER have i seen a mechanic that is random like this. (Except random debuffs. but then again, I hate to keep quoting wow things.
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You right bro, it's lazy. Everyone in my crew has learnt how to use the shield because of the teleporting being randomised. That will ensure only the best teams will be triumphant. If your not prepared to do the work you shouldn't be rewarded with the best gear.
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How about when you do the raid like Bungie wants you too, but every time you get a drop it's something you already have....yeah I understand it's intended. But wow.. how many times can I collect the same peice....it makes me think it's any thing but random....If I get chatterwhite again I'm gonna puke.
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I feel you on that chatter white dilemma lol but as for the double ups just break them down and stack dem chips for later. It feels good when you already got the rare materials ready.
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Cimyr said it well, but yeah, as an MMORPG veteran myself, raids have set strategies, people that are relied on to perform specific functions in addition to their class role, and a certain time and order to carry out those duties. Raids, even in an FPS type MMO, should not have random chaos. The only time that should happen is when someone fails to fulfill their role or when someone unexpectedly dies at the wrong time.
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Which happens constantly if one person loses focus.
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[quote]The problem is the everybody is using the same strategy..and now there is a certain way to conquer the VoG. They actually want this to be hard...not something you can just breeze thru for great gear.[/quote] Newsflash that's how raids work. They aren't suppose to be a chaotic clusterf*ck of people yelling at each other. I raided for years in WoW and FFXI/XIV and every boss has a set start and they're still a challenge. You can't just change mechanics on a whim like this, unless they want to pad it out longer. Which I'm sure is the case.
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Well said. I did the raid first time last night. Having to learn all roles the first time would have been overwhelming, to say the least. This only punishes players new to the raid, smh.
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I agree with this I think it should only be a change for hard mode.
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^^^^^^^^ This. DeeJ realize we do not want this change at all.
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Yup hit the nail on the head. Good summery exactly how I fill.
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Good post!
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I am now convinced that they do not want any sense community with this game whatsoever. New players - -blam!-ed. Teamplay - -blam!-ed. Harmony in general with the player base - -blam!-ed -blam!-ed -blam!-ed. -blam!-ery all around
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Soooo I agree with a lot of this, however you should fix a lot of other errors with the Raid that will cause my team to wipe and cost me heavy ammo. For one, even with the normal teleport system, it seems that there are times that only two will teleport and the 3rd will teleport and back into the atheon fight. This cripples the teleported team and is pretty much an automatic wipe. Also I notice that on Venus, the pratorian will randomly recover all health when he teleports. At times he's being rocketed and the shield bearer slams him and this still happens. I feel every mistake is called a "bug" at this point. Could we at least attempt to fix these bugs if were going to change the way the raid works. On normal, these changes probably won't phase much however on hard, almost need a perfect run. So if you expect us to have everyone know all know every role and fight the boss legit, at least dont teleport only two people when the boss is at 10%
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I'm not sure if this is a bug. If you all go through the portal single file and wait until the "chime" ends between each exit or entrance you will not have an issue. I have noticed that this bug occurs, if it is a bug, only when two guardians run the the portal at the same time. Try it out and assign roles for exit. My team goes Relic holder first, then one followed by the other all entering the cleansing bubble upon exit put down by the relic holder who went through first. Hope this helps!
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Edited by MOJO ZOZO: 10/18/2014 2:48:46 PMNo. I mean when Atheon opens the timestream. If i was on the teleporting team on hard, sometimes I'd see the teleport screen then end up back in the boss room, leaving 2 to fight on Venus or Mars gate. If you've played on hard, then you'd know that you can't kill at the enemies/oracles with only 2 people. I understand changes, but this has happened on normal when atheon was at low health. Until we hit higher levels, this was pretty much wipe because one person can barely kill all of the oracles in time without that 3rd person. All I'm saying that if you expect me and 5 other dedicated people to suffer through this knowing someone's only going get chatterwhite, fix the bugs that will screw us over before adding new challenges
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Oh I have not run into that bug yet. I completely agree, even running a two man team on normal would be taxing. I would just love the have the mission end properly at this point and take us all back to orbit with a proper end game stats page...with the mission reward at the end like we get with all other strikes. Hopefully, judging by the groundswell of support against this teleport tweak, bungie will realize their mistake and not include it in the upcoming patch. You can't penalize a group of players for figuring out a sound strategy with assigned roles. I can even tolerate the sniper island patch (never needed it to take down the Templar) but even during that engagement my team knows which side they are to cover and what roles they are to play. This just seems like a desperation move on Bungie's part which makes no sense, if you look, on average I believe only 1.9% of all Destiny players have even completed the raid. Why so many tweaks increasing difficulty when so few players have even completed it?
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I feel like they don't like this many level 30s this early and didn't intend this many mythoclast being in rotation. But my problem is that, in a normal team each person is assigned a task depending on their skillset/abilities and the team functions only if everyone does their role well. This goes with a sports team, as it would with a military unit so i don't see why they're sayong that it's wrong for us to assign roles. I have a couple different teams i run he raids with, and i have at least 2-3 people tired of getting the same gear, shards and chatterwhite so with these changes I'm going to have to find a team of randoms and hope they won't quit after 10 tries or just find another game to hold me over until Master Chief Collection. It's honestly looking loke the latter at this point.
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This is right on the money. I'm fine with nerfing my favorite guns and doing whatever to the PVP but the raid should be left for the most part alone. If you really want to fix stuff with the raid, fix the teleports that don't work half the time. Nothing sucks more than running through a teleport gate and going nowhere while everyone else got through just fine. Don't destroy the team aspect of the raid. If you do, you should atleast add matchmaking to it since now every person should know every part of the raid.
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I don't mind the atheon thing. It sounds fun and challenging and I wanna beat it
