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Edited by TPoppaPuff:
10/14/2014 6:53:38 PM
12
Can someone give a valid explanation as to why gun balance in PvP has to affect gun balance in the PvE? Why don't the guns have wholly independent set of stats? According to Bungie the Crucible was supposed to be balanced for all levels anyway so why is it the PvE has to be affected by PvP balances?
I haven't seen the code for this game obviously, but if I were developing it knowing I had to have leveled gear for campaign purposes and balanced weapons for PvP purposes of all levels, I would have:
-Given each gun whatever stats and upgrades as envisioned for PvE with hard numbers (ie. 132 hp of damage).
Edit: KingTurd, you're wrong.
-Based the PvP off each gun's class template using that separate set of numbers and have the upgrade adjust them based off a percentage of that base PvP stat (and ignoring damage upgrades entirely).
Obviously there is some base stats that are shared for guns that runs across the entire game and Bungie is trying to adjust them to work for both. Why? Why aren't these separate stats that are being adjusted independently? If I were creating the game it would have never crossed my mind to force the guns to shared baseline values for PvE and PvP. It seems like such an amateur mistake. So what if the hit points and the firing speeds are a little off when going from PvP to PvE? Who's going to care? People are only going to care if the guns are broken. [b]I don't need PvP-to-PvE continuity between my space blasters. I just need them to work.[/b]
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Just curious, but where do they say that the reasoning for the need was because of just PvP? I know they made it clear that they didn't want their to be weapons so good that people felt they had to use it, and that was the VM, so clearly their was a problem from just a PvE aspect. Hence my question.
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I say it's necessary. I don't my Auto Rifle to feel any different in and out of PVP. Maybe it doesn't mean much to you, but I flop between PVP and PVE quite often, I enjoy both of them. If I entered a PVP match and my gun's recoil changed a noticeable amount, or god forbid it started firing slower? That would frustrate me. If damage had to change, I guess I'd be alright with that, but Stability/Rate of Fire/Reload Speed. All of that needs to be consistent.
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Well if consistency is more important to you than quality of gameplay then I can not change your mind. All I can say is that it's already having clearly negative reactions from the community and negative affects on gameplay.
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So there is no correlation between weapon consistency and quality of gameplay? Also, I'm not disagreeing with you on the Damage front. While I have been playing nothing but PVE since the patch went live, I've yet to see whether the damage downgrade is a good or bad thing. All I'm saying is the way the gun feels, especially, for this circumstance, the recoil/stability. If the recoil gets changed in PVP, it better be translated to PVE. I don't need my gun to feel like two different weapons just because I enter a different game mode. That would definitely be a shot to the gameplay's quality.
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Edited by TPoppaPuff: 10/14/2014 9:08:24 PM[quote]So there is no correlation between weapon consistency and quality of gameplay?[/quote]Between two wildly disparate game modes, 100% replication is not necessary. A 5% recoil reduction here and a 10% RoF differential there is not anything to wreck individual balance over.
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I wouldn't say this patch did any balance wrecking of any sort. The Auto Rifle is - in theory - no longer the straight up go to primary weapon. It is still for me, but now the Scout Rifle can finally hold its own in PVE/PVP. For me, I'm not displeased with the patch so far. I can't speak for the Vex weapon, but I've had plenty of time with the AR/Shotgun, and both are still viable, PVE/PVP through. I guess all I can ask is play the game, try them out and let me know what you think.
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Edited by TPoppaPuff: 10/15/2014 5:16:49 AMI haven't played since the update so I can't speak to the impact of the update and whether the game's better or worse for it. I also run scout rifle on missions and hand cannon in crucible along with sniper. I also don't have VMC ether. It would be a long while for me to suss out the impact. With that said, my point of contention is on the design principle of having every facet of the gun identical for absolute consistency across completely different game modes while forsaking balance in the process when you've already decided to compromise the damage attribute to keep balance in one mode already. It's a contradiction to itself that benefits no one. Then again, maybe I've just had a run of extremely ****ty ARs every time I've tried them. I'm starting up right now to play some missions for some reason, but I doubt it raises the scout rifle that much. It was already a pretty solid choice to me as it didn't take nearly that many shots to down enemies as it does with the AR and leaves me with enough in the clip to take down multiple enemies before reloading.
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Edited by C0L Gentleman: 10/15/2014 2:50:47 PMI gotcha. I agree on the "every facet" part. I think damage can vary for certain. Lower the damage in PVP, leave it in PVE, that won't change too much, people won't notice. It's just the feel of the weapon that concerns me, Stability/Rate of Fire/Reload speed, and I support the consistency between them completely. Hope you have fun though! I'm just waiting to do the raid again, personally. I fear there won't be much to do after I'm 30 and beat the raid on heroic, but I've got some time till that happens.
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This isnt about PVP or PVE you turds. This is about gun balance amongst the different weapons. Players should have to choose their gun based on a specific encouter or need. When 1 gun type beats every other one in EVERY situation, you have a problem. PVP only highlighted this very problem. Auto rifles ruled all distances. Wake the f*ck up. Pick up some more guns and switch it up when you should. Lol and every youtube channel out there was titled, "Vex OP Omg watch this." No surprise dumb dumbs. Again for the slow ppl. Pvp only showcased the fact that the autorifle dominated in almost all situations. Pvp and pve.
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There Was 2 Known Videos Of OP Stating Of The Mythlocast You Idiotic Jew.
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Just 2? Can you count? Lol
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Edited by hellr8zZrR: 10/15/2014 10:13:15 AMAhem this is the reason #1 for combat rifles to be the most used weapon type in warfrare of our days. They [b]ARE[/b] all purpose guns. # Snipers again are 1 shot - dead weapons. That is essentially made what they are made for (if you know how to use them). You want realism? Fine, make them usable exclusively with a spotter co because THAT is how it normally works. So no solo sniping anyway and when there is no friend around with the typical field glasses addiction, no sniping sorry. Why are there "Realism" argumentations even developing? Guys we´re throwing grenades made out of thin air! What the actual fook is going on?
