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Edited by Saninus:
1/3/2015 3:43:38 PM
2573
Why Bladedancer is OP and a fair solution to the problem.
https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/86442024/0/0
*A forum user (iacchius) averaged out the k/d of the top 100 players for each class...
Make all the excuses you want... ;)
...that's a .76 k/d spread between the top 100 Hunters and the top 100 Titans.
Take into account that most of those players are rocking over a 3.0 k/d and that margin is even more ridiculous!
*updated with a good balance suggestion and addressed pve*
I've been in 10 of these threads over the last couple days.
I see the same responses over and over again.
Hunters are too worried about losing their favorite power. Every one else is just tired of getting team wiped.
Let's just sum up the problem. Nice and clear. Easy to understand...
*Arc Blade out kills every other super in this game.*
It travels too far and last too long.
Yes, they can be killed while using Arc Blade.
With maps offering ample cover and Hunters having access to Hungering Blade, blink,(free) dm resistance, dash and increased movement speed...
Unless the Hunter calls it in at the worst possible time (out in the open with a team focus firing) he's going to get some easy kills.
Our super canceling your super does not in any way balance things out.
We get 1 whole kill for stopping your potential kill streak. Awesome!
Now let's go through all the lovely and intelligent responses that this subject generates, one at a time:
-Titan and Warlock supers can wipe a whole team in one move!
A: Yes they can. BUT IT NEVER HAPPENS! It doesn't. People don't group up like that. You can be damn sure if they see an enemy running at them, they spread out. Quickly. If we saved our supers to achieve a kill streak that Arc Blade provides in almost every match, we'd be holding on to them for days...
It's the distance that Arc Blade can travel that makes it so unbalanced. If it was wiping out teams all huddled together, I don't think anyone would complain. As it stands Arc Blade can achieve better results across multiple map areas.
-A Hunter can be stopped easily during Arc Blade! One shot gun blast! You must be bad.
A: I might be. But so is everyone I've ever played with or played against because I rarely see Hunters get shut down.
What most of you don't understand is... we don't all ping the same to whatever server they are connecting us to. I have great internet, but from my perspective Arc Blade is practically unstoppable.
Combine lag, damage resistance, a dash that goes way too far and you end up with an unstoppable juggernaut wiping entire teams.
-Supers are supposed to be OP. Stop whining.
A: Yes. Supers are supposed to be OP. The problem lies in one super far exceeding the other supers kill potential. The 5 other subclasses seem to achieve about the same kills with their super. About 2-3. Arc Blade seems to usually net about 3-5. That's a problem of balance. It just is.
-Titans and Warlocks can panic super!
A: Yes we can. And it nets us a whole one kill. One less than our average. Which is 2 kills... which is probably why we do it. Why hold on to something that isn't of that much value if it can save your life now?! If FoH or Nova Bomb was as valuable as Arc Blade, we might not waste it!
----------
My point in this is: right now there is a subclass that is out of whack with the other 5. It just is.
If Bungie reduced Arc Blade to a 3 kill max (4 with an exotic and the enemy would have to be very close together) and slightly reduced the damage resistance, that would bring it more in line with the other supers. 2-3 kills. 4 if you win the lottery.
(I actually posted this as a response in another thread. I'm tired of looking for other people's thread to follow the conversation)
* I've seen quite a few people suggesting lowering the time limit that Arc Blade can be active and not limiting the amount of kills it can achieve.
-I like this. It deals with the current problem (Arc Blade achieving too many kills across too large an area) while still leaving the Hunter in a strong position to deal with groups.
*I do not want Pve Hunters to struggle with Arc Blade more than they already have to.
I'm not against separate balancing for pvp and pve. That's Bungie's thing.
I have no desire to see Bladedancer nerfed in pve.
Doesn't mean that it doesn't need some tweaking in pvp though...
* Destiny - Don't Date a Hunter: Why Hunters are So…: http://youtu.be/GKi30mhzglw
Great video. It's Goldengun focused, but addresses Arc Blade which suffers from the same issue.
Thanks to "Horrendous Noob" for the find.
Destiny hunter Arc blade montage: http://youtu.be/XzUmSC2dip8
A little video reference for those that don't realize how long the power is active...
...or choose to ignore it. ;)
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2 RepliesWhat action do you think would help balance things out? How would you change the Bladedancer, or even make the other classes stronger?
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It's really not OP at all, it's quite balanced. Try it for yourself. Half the time I use the super I die during it at some point. It leaves the Hunter quite vulnerable in many cases.
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8 RepliesEdited by Briq: 10/1/2014 3:53:32 AMI'll just leave this here. You can use all the bias and conjecture you want, but you can't argue with numbers. Hunters are a joke in PvP and bungie dropped the ball by letting it go on this long. There is zero skill in anything they do, which is why so many turds are attracted to them. The nerfs are coming, it's just a matter of when. Source: http://www.destinydb.com/news/posts/28-9-26-guardian-statistics
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7 RepliesSeen three blade dancers. Killed three blade dancers. Twice with fist of havoc, once with auto rifle. No harder to kill them than titan with shield, or warlock with whatever the solar super is. Stop complaining and just play for Gods sake.
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2 Replieseasy tips for you , counter either with A) your super , yes your super CAN kill them , ive seen a warlock voidbolt one in the face , ive Golden Gunned one myself , to say Supers dont work on them is flatout BS and your own incompetence , B) kill them with a shotgun , requires a bit of skill with timing the shot with effective range / before hes within that teleport range , IT WORKS and ive done it multiple times now , C) snipe them in the head , ive been saved once by a teammate who caught a BD offgaurd who caught me offgaurd , sniped him in the head , boom headshot and he dropped. im sorry if your team sucks , alot of random teams in crucible suck unbelievably bad , i played with enough of them to know this to be true and not surprised they get wiped out by a BD super , hell a sneeze could wipe out half of these pugs atleast.
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2 RepliesI'm not going to argue that you suck or its easy to kill arcbladers because I've been on both the receiving and giving end of it. I've died while arcblading countless times but I've also killed a multiple people in one go. I've also been wiped out by an arcblader but I've also killed them as well. I think the main reason why arcblade probably won't get nerfed is because unlike golden gun and all the other supers (excluding bubble) are all ranged or become ranged. You might argue that we could use the second perk for the super which throws out the Shockwave. We could but the reason why that's fair game is my next point. Unlike titan and Warlock supers, if you're within range you can kill them. Arcblade doesn't have an initial attack like golden gun but we have to hunt down targets. If we cast arcblade near people when they can see us they're granted roughly a second to hit us before we can actually move. While titans and warlocks also have animation sequences, ours does not move us in a direction unless we're midair but even then it's just a forward line. Titans jump forward at an arc at a speed fast enough that you probably wouldn't be able to follow them with your gun. Warlocks also do a thing that I can't really remember but I haven't played mine in a while so I could be wrong. Using arcblade's melee, whether or not you hit anyone, uses some of the super gauge. In that sense we actually are limited to a certain number of hits. We do have a skill that provides extra time when we get a kill with arcblade but unless we're in the heat of battle that extra time won't do much. It's roughly a second or an extra attack. Plus there are more beneficial perks under that column like hungering blade or invisibility. Not to mention warlocks do have sunsinger, who, if used effectively, can actually prevent a bladedancer from getting near. Plant grenades in a way where we'd be within ones radius at all times and dwindle down our health. They are OP at times I will admit. But they can also be taken out quickly if you're know what your doing.
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12 RepliesI'm open to discussion. If I'm wrong, tell me why I'm wrong. If I missed something in the OP, let me know. I'll add it.
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4 RepliesShotty blast and a melee do it for me. I tango with blade dancers.
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[quote]I've been in 10 of these threads over the last couple days. I see the same responses over and over again. Hunters are too worried about losing their favorite power. Every one else is just tired of getting team wiped. Let's just sum up the problem. Nice and clear. Easy to understand... *Arc Blade out kills every other super in this game.* It just does. You know it does. We know it does. Now let's go through all the lovely and intelligent responses that this subject generates, one at a time: -Titan and Warlock supers can wipe a whole team in one move! A: Yes they can. BUT IT NEVER HAPPENS! It doesn't. People don't group up like that. You can be damn sure if they see an enemy running at them, they spread out. Quickly. If we saved our supers to achieve a kill streak that Arc Blade provides in almost every match, we'd be holding on to them for days... It's the distance that Arc Blade can travel that makes it so unbalanced. If it was wiping out teams all huddled together, I don't think anyone would complain. As it stands Arc Blade can achieve better results across multiple map areas. -A Hunter can be stopped easily during Arc Blade! One shot gun blast! You must be bad. A: I might be. But so is everyone I've ever played with or played against because I rarely see Hunters get shut down. What most of you don't understand is... we don't all ping the same to whatever server they are connecting us to. I have great internet, but from my perspective Arc Blade is practically unstoppable. Combine lag, damage resistance, a dash that goes way too far and you end up with an unstoppable juggernaut wiping entire teams. -Supers are supposed to be OP. Stop whining. A: Yes. Supers are supposed to be OP. The problem lies in one super far exceeding the other supers kill potential. The 5 other subclasses seem to achieve about the same kills with their super. About 2-3. Arc Blade seems to usually net about 3-5. That's a problem of balance. It just is. -Titans and Warlocks can panic super! A: Yes we can. And it nets us a whole one kill. One less than our average. Which is 2 kills... which is probably why we do it. Why hold on to something that isn't of that much value if it can save your life now?! If FoH or Nova Bomb was as valuable as Arc Blade, we might not waste it! ---------- My point in this is: right now there is a subclass that is out of whack with the other 5. It just is. If Bungie reduced Arc Blade to a 3 kill max (4 with an exotic and the enemy would have to be very close together) and slightly reduced the damage resistance, that would bring it more in line with the other supers. 2-3 kills. 4 if you win the lottery. (I actually posted this as a response in another thread. I'm tired of looking for other people's thread to follow the conversation)[/quote] Iv said it on other post but learn to play you're class.. titans special owns and in facts one hits a bd in there's so stop crying.
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8 RepliesStop bitching and make a hunter if you think it's OP
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1 ReplyI think a fair compromise is to remove health regen while the super is active. I hit Bladedancers with rockets (homing missiles, direct hits), they retreat behind a wall, wait 3 seconds and their health regents 100%. If they couldn't regen, then it would take some planning and skill rather than the 'rawrg! I'm an invincible bullet sponge!' Mentality.
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This man speaks truth. My solution to balancing it just nerf the damage resistance it gets that's all.
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3 RepliesYeah that part when they lift up their blade makes them more easy to kill plus they run straight towards bullets while titans and warlocks get that 1 second godmode then they do the special and its hard to kill him like that I would rather meet a blade dancer then any else because they are the most easiest to kill unless I have my super
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This man is wise.
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1 ReplyCry harder. The supers are exactly that. Don't be mad because you don't know how to cope if you get owned by one.
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2 RepliesTo the people saying that limiting the kills is bad: I'm pretty sure he's talking about PvP. In PvE, Blade Dancer is super useful but in PvP, it's a little annoying when I see people just spamming their trigger to just move far distances each time they press it, it's hard to hit them with a shotgun because you only have a split second before their blade hits you, especially up close. And a shotgun from medium range won't do that much damage so they can still kill you, I don't know what it's like on the other side (I haven't played Hunter that much), if anyone has anything else to add (if Blade Dancer is OP or not), go ahead.
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Lol. i die a lot during arc blade. Fusion rifles, shotguns, rockets. You name it
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All BUNGIE needs to do is remove the invulnerability of blade dancer after the activation. Just like all other supers.
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2 RepliesYou're not wrong this problem needs to be addressed
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6 RepliesEdited by LC0311: 10/1/2014 3:01:32 AMWhat about the fact that changing it also changes it for PvE. Being able to wipe out groups of add is great in strikes or raid. For pvp If I can only get 3 kills with arc blade I might as well just player gun slinger and stand back and pick three people off.
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You have violated the code of conduct, prepare to face ninja justice
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1 ReplyHow many of these threads do we really need?
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4 RepliesReduce damage reduction during supers for all classes boom done
