How do you even get 6 people together? Fireteams are only 3 and there no guarantee you'll go into the same instance in the patrol. And I shouldn't have to go to a third party for something that should be included in the game by the people who revolutionized online gameplay

You invite 5 other people to join your fireteam. That's why the 'roster' screen has spaces for 6 people in your fireteam. The Raids are about getting together with a group of like-minded people who are willing to put down the time and effort necessary to complete a large undertaking like a Raid. It will be difficult (confirmed by the guys who completed it today) and will require team work. Team work with randoms is basically difficult at all, let alone doing it with 5 others (who are not guaranteed to have mic's) for several hours straight is going to be incredibly rare using a matchmaking system. THIS is why Bungie did this. Also, the other reason, is so that players can't go afk or join the Raid during the last 30 minutes of a 4 hour Raid. Then they would get all the Raid gear upon completion, but did not do any of the work. THAT is extremely unfair to the others.

There are two types of people. The first accepts inane design decisions that only add tedium and wasted time to the process and tells others to do the same. That's you. The rest of us push for better designs.

I'd try not to be such a jackass on these forums hey. We already have enough morons here. Also, unless you are a game developer or have indepth knowledge of the vision Bungie has for Destiny, then you don't really have the right to call it an inane design decision. They have already explained that they specifically did NOT include matchmaking for a very good reason, so it is not inane, you just don't like it personally. Just wait, if they ever do include matchmaking for Raids, wait and see how quickly the Raids devolve into chaos and crap, and then everyone will complain to Bungie how they should fix the broken Raids.

How's it feel to have no argument? I'm a jackass, and because I'm not a developer I have no right to an opinion? That's your position? You, as a user of a product, are absolutely entitled to have an opinion on the design of the product because the product is [i]made to be consumed by you[/i]. If you don't like it, that's not your problem. That's the producer of the product's problem, because they are failing to deliver a product that you enjoy. You don't have to be a developer to have an opinion on it, and there is NOTHING sacrosanct about either Bungie nor their product. They are just as vulnerable to poor decisions as everyone else. The reason they didn't include matchmaking is not a "very good reason," it's embarrassing. Their entire premise was that people should have to organically group together with friends and clanmates to form raid parties. Only that's hilariously stupid, because there are absolutely no tools to do that within the game. You're forcing people to leave your core experience in order to continue playing. There is absolutely nothing organic about having to have a laptop next to you to organize in your game. And you know what happened? [b]PEOPLE BUILT THIRD PARTY MATCHMAKING TOOLS.[/b] What does that tell you about the product? People want matchmaking! Only now, instead of being able to do so in the game, you have to have a laptop next to you to deal with it. You even suggested that I use that tool in your first post, so you know it exists. Why should I have to leave the game to do so? There is no good reason. It's unnecessary tedium. It's poor design, through and through. You don't channel players into a particular kind of experience by making other options tedious and unnecessarily difficult.

I was going to reply, but you're still being a jackass, so goodbye :)

Translation: "I have no good argument to support my stupid Bungie-apologist position so I'm going to pretend to have the moral high ground and not address anything of substance."