I love you Bungie.

TO: Bungie FROM: WheelmanForHire RE: The Melee Update. DATE: refer to post information. Maybe a memo will get your bureaucratic attention. Because this seems like a bureaucratic idea: Kill the meaning behind battle just because some people can't take losing for "no reason" If you ask me, the "fix" of the melee system, with mutual deaths, will ASSURE no reason to the entire engagement of fists. [b]Everyone who has paid attention KNOWS that the battle is given to the victor with the highest health level.[/b] You have told us this at least twice by my reckoning. HOWEVER This "fix" is unacceptable. Given the usual means by which melees come down to (in my games) They are down to the wire and usually engaged by both players, heading towards each other, and swinging. Both people's shields are usually depleted or low. Under Halo 1/2 the winner was the first to strike. Understandably, Halo 3 gives it to the one with the higher shield. Now: BOTH PLAYERS DIE. How insanely stupid is that? Is Bungie trying to invoke MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction, to the uneducated) tactics and just do away with melee? What's going to be the point of melee? It'll be assassination or nothing. Granted, it will be given to interpretation on how they phrase: "[i]sizeable health advantage[/i]" if that's going to be just a "notable" As to whether that means a shield advantage, or the indeterminable "health" post shields. HOW THEY SHOULD DO IT: Instead of a double kill, a "clash" or blocked attack should happen (a glancing blow of the other's strike). A timer started on both consoles at the event, and the first person to swing a second time is given the kill after conferring who has swung first. Alternatively, blows are weighted towards direction. Whoever is closer to "center" on their target is given the stronger strike and the kill. (instead of swinging "close" and hitting their shoulder for a lethal kill) OR JUST GO BACK TO FIRST COME FIRST SERVE. -------------------------------------------------------------- I can't say right now how I'll respond. If this becomes as much of a nuisance as I think it I will have to retire Halo. With 20% of my kills being from melee and being a close quarters player I don't see any reason to proceed to the battle-rifle fest that it shall become. Just because some people can't UNDERSTAND or ADJUST to the new system doesn't mean it requires an overhaul like you suggest. All you're managing to do is cater to the whiners who refuse to learn the system and complain the loudest. The rest of us has quietly upped and changed our game. @1086K to 667D, melee only, I have learned to ADAPT to the new melee system. It's not "random" to me. I've learned to avoid engagements where I know they have the bullet count upperhand. You don't have to count bullets, you just have to know who fired first and how long you've kept on target. If you can fire first and keep your crosshair on them then you're up for the win. If you have strayed off target or they fired first then it's best to keep your distance and hope to evade the fire. IT IS NOT THAT HARD. This new system, depending on how bad it goes, could (by my estimates of "close" melee engagements, alter my melee success from anywhere of 5% to 20% I'd rather ask "what" instead of be pissed that I'm forced to wait a respawn time for a mutual death. It sucked to sit through ALL of Romeo and Juliet just to watch them both die and I'll feel the same way every fight this happens. I'd rather the fight actually be meaningful. I'd rather die and let them, the understandable winner of the foray, (knowing that they had the edge damage-wise) then to have us both die and waste our times and negate the battle entirely. This could be a deal-breaker, Bungie. If this proceeds as you've planned and even ebbs on a 10% frustration rate, I'll walk faster than through 2 straight rounds of shotty snipers (I've said, already, I'm a close range player. I don't do snipers. Green Thumb, Inverted, 8's don't snipe.

geez, I am so psyched for all the new stuff... maps, updates, hoppers... geez.

cool bungie! good info

I must say, I'm not a fan of this new melee system on paper. I saw no problem with the old system. Yes, there is the chance for random selection to come in to play. But I've never meleed or been meleed and questioned why. It's always clear to me that the winner of the melee was the person with more health and rightly so. And using the logic provided, we should just assume every bullet that comes out of the ARs is a hit. One might lose out because of lag and one of their shots didn't register. If you ask me, this is making a flawed system more flawed. But perhaps it will work in practice. If we look at life on a 0-100 scale (100 being full), I could understand if the draw happens when the difference is around 5-10. But even then, I would perfer that both players drop to 1 point of health and continue fighting instead of both people dieing. Think of it like energy swords are currently. That system works. Why not bring it over to melee?

Bungie, melee aside, how does the damage detection model work for Halo 3, with regards to the 100ms lag average and resolving what the client sees vs what the host sees? In general, does the host trust the input from the client? So if I see myself shooting at someone, does the host, for the most part, trust my input? Or am I just shooting at ghost images i.e. the image I see is 100ms behind what the host sees and thus, the host sees me missing my target. Do we need to lead our shots to the spot where the host sees our enemy? If we need to lead our shots to compensate for the 100ms lag, then this game REALLY needs a damage recognition beep issued by the host, similar to that of Halo PC. In Halo PC you would often need to lead your shots so far out in front of your enemy that you would visually see yourself missing, but the server beep would let you know that your shots are connecting with your target.

I like how you used the smudging of your black crayon for your shading technique.... Kudos to Frankie and P.S I really like how you guys like to help charity, it makes me feel like these aren't just game developers helping gamers, they're game developers helping the world Thanks for the melee update. Your biggest fan - tooji

How will this affect a melee/shotgun battle? Several times I know I've nearly killed a shotgun user with bullets, went to deliver the melee and die by the shotgun. I realize its pretty deadly to be hit by a shotgun point blank, but the melee should still have momentum to kill the shotty even though the body doing it is dead. Its like shooting a hefty laptop flying towards your head: sure, you destroyed the functionality of the computer, but its still 2-5 pounds of metal flying towards your head.

i cant believe it takes this long for such an update. honestly, what else did they update? it better have been a substantial amount of stuff for it to take this freaking long.

Why was the system of harder punches based on movement not transfered from H2? Remember... Stop'd/Crouch'd Punch -> low Running Punch -> med High/Jumping Punch -> high ????

A pretty nice read. I'm glad to see that the maps are progressing well- lookin' forward to seeing them. ;) By the way, that Mister Chief is win (mostly due to the fact that this one, unlike last week's, did not make me ill).

I am waiting, and I know this might happen in the year 3000 for the time when Halo incorprates the Scarab, in a map.....I was sitting there daydreaming about how a scarab would be possible in Halo....As I was sitting there almost cutting my HAND off in work next to a saw..((I would have never played it withought my hand...)) So I figured it would be more like a giant Warthog, one person driving, and one person on a turrent, and one to man the main gun that shoots the laser. This would be fair as it would take three people from normal gameplay to get this massive beast of the gods moving... I started a drawing of the map, and just threw my pencil down knowing that Lag Would kill the beast. So instead of inventing a Super high Speed internet which consisted of two bubble yum, and a Waffel I Cried....lol I also thought of a cool way that you could have two! medium sized maps fly around a large map. Like a Pillar of......ME!? and the covanant Space Craft that could be steered, and docked onto each other....Before all you fan start bashin my head against the cement Screaming "This was the biggest waste of time reading this!!" Know that I am wearing a .............helmet! <=== Don't ask, I have this problem in blurting out weird random things. Hey my wife thinks it is cute (( insert smiley face here)) Ohhh and the Melee thing I think that many people here underappreciate the time Bungie puts in too listen and add on to halo so that this game never ends it just never ends.......never........(( Ponders)) ..................I LOVE IT TO THE FACE!!! [Edited on 02.09.2008 12:39 PM PST]

WOW- Frankies Chief is up to almost $800 right now- not bad atall- oh yeah, OMG PLEASE FIX THE MELEE!

A massive amount of info [i]and[/i] a [b] Commando[/b] reference? Bravo, Bungie. Bravo.

Very Good read. Cant believe i read it all aswell :P Im glad the new maps are coming along nicely, they sound amazing. Hope the new melee doesnt lunge like the sword does!

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MoiFUgly Is the Jumping in campaign going to be fixed? (cause after pressing A, the player jumps a 0.5 second later) Thanks & Good day can't wait for AU1 :)[/quote] thats just on multiplayer campaign, and you didnt get host

oh, and why don't they add the latency problem with shotguns? (Shield doors, snowbound...)

what is the skybox?

you should fix it where the guy goes flyin across the map when hit because now we cant T-Bag'em

WHAT!? Why no mention of the GRADUATE ACHIEVEMENT BUG ? It may be trivial, but no more than shoulder pads. BUNGIE, PLEASE ADDRESS THIS!

finaly malee is fix and now can u do somthing about when i win a ranked macth and my skill level dosen't go up oh and do u think u could look at my File share and give me ur input about it. and while ur at download my video, a warthog glitch and when ever my friend spawned a radio antenna the warthog would float in mid air.

good but y did u chus a green ninja

this is all good stuff they're putting in the update, but when is it coming out?

Not a bad solution. Although I feel like I'm going to now see a bunch of people killing each other at once, as if there's some sort of killer fruit punch party I was't invited to. The above poster that recommended a melle clash similar to the swords..... I gotta say that's not a bad idea. I'm not sure if it's look too goofy, or close down the pace of Halo 3, but I think I'd like it more simply because there would be more chance for skill and less chance of "hey you both die!"

I was hoping they would go back to whoever hit the button first. It was fair for people who don't have walmart connections. Now we will still for certain be no-shields after every melee battle. Game is still catering to the slow reflexed and bad connection-having people, just not as much...

Is the Jumping in campaign going to be fixed? (cause after pressing A, the player jumps a 0.5 second later) Thanks & Good day can't wait for AU1 :)