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8/27/2014 9:41:40 PM
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Most of the games she took as examples of women being portrayed in the "wrong way" was games played out set in a time that is quite some time ago.
Red Dead Redemption or Assassin's Creed for example. The reason for women being the way they are in those games are because they were handled like that during that time...
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Edited by Seggi: 8/27/2014 11:02:01 PMUm, sexual violence against women is still really common today. The problem isn't that these games depict something that doesn't happen and never has, it's the way those depictions are framed, the purpose of them, and the effect this has.
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Without a doubt I agree with the fact that sexual violence against women is still a major problem (just look at all the schools coming under fire for Title IX violations), I think that the problem that people have with her videos (at least honest gamers who aren't out just to be total a-holes to her) is the way she chooses to nit pick at just about every game that's popular with people. Like Hitman, some channel posted a video about why they didn't agree with how she represented the game, and frankly I agree with those points. She describes one area as specifically being designed so that players would harm and murder strippers and treat their bodies like objects. Point of fact, the game penalizes taking such action against ANY civilian, and I think it's fair to say that moments like that are a big cause for the rage some feel towards her. Now to be fair I do think she has a point with the fact that in video games women are portrayed in certain ways (I mean look at armor for female characters in MMO's where they wear practically nothing sensible for combat) but her examples and the way she goes about it are all wrong. Another unfortunate by product of all the fools that are relentlessly bashing her is that the few arguments that are actually well thought out and stated are likely to be dismissed as more hate. The only problem I have with her is that while I appreciate the fact that she is standing up against the portrayal of women in video games, feminism in developed countries is really perverse. While there still is space for improvement in how society views and treats women, too many "feminists" are no longer fighting for equal representation than they are fighting for women's superiority (trust me I wouldn't be saying something so bold if I hadn't witnessed it everyday in school) and movements like this take away from the suffering of women in countries like India and parts of the Middle East (look up the 2012 Delhi gang -blam!- if you still don't believe me) where women are truly viewed as less than men or as objects. I find it hard to really sympathize with these movements when these people should consider using their popularity to inform and educate people of the status of women in places less fortunate than where we are.
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Edited by Seggi: 8/28/2014 2:45:11 AM[quote]Like Hitman, some channel posted a video about why they didn't agree with how she represented the game, and frankly I agree with those points. She describes one area as specifically being designed so that players would harm and murder strippers and treat their bodies like objects. Point of fact, the game penalizes taking such action against ANY civilian, and I think it's fair to say that moments like that are a big cause for the rage some feel towards her. Now to be fair I do think she has a point with the fact that in video games women are portrayed in certain ways (I mean look at armor for female characters in MMO's where they wear practically nothing sensible for combat) but her examples and the way she goes about it are all wrong. Another unfortunate by product of all the fools that are relentlessly bashing her is that the few arguments that are actually well thought out and stated are likely to be dismissed as more hate.[/quote] mfw the person you're talking about (thunderf00t) is one of the most hateful people around, who consistently accuses Sarkeesian of being a manipulative liar and con artist and turns every single video he makes about her work (or about any other feminist for that matter) into a personal attack. Anyway, what you're saying is that people take a handful of examples of arguments or lines of thought that are questionable at worst and applying that to dismiss everything she says as bullshit. In case you were wondering, that's not a defence of those people, it just goes to show that people are disagreeing with her so much [i]because they're actively trying to[/i]. [quote]While there still is space for improvement in how society views and treats women, too many "feminists" are no longer fighting for equal representation than they are fighting for women's superiority (trust me I wouldn't be saying something so bold if I hadn't witnessed it everyday in school)[/quote] That is absurdly wrong. I'm sorry, but this is just a bullshit myth people spread based on misconceptions, conflation, and ignorance of the societal context. You're just so wrong here. [quote]movements like this take away from the suffering of women in countries like India and parts of the Middle East[/quote] No, they don't in the slightest. Don't try to use the oppression people face elsewhere to minimise lesser forms of it at home. That's not being thoughtful and kind to women suffering in developing countries, it's exploiting them to avoid confronting uncomfortable truths.
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I can concede that first point. After I posted that I went to have a look at his other videos and I realized what an ass he was. Second point, I'd have to say that our difference of opinion probably comes around from difference of experience. I'll admit I could have stated that better, and I apologize if I offended you with that comment, and I realized I neglected to mention an important detail with that. The majority of feminists that I knew and talked too were intelligent to discuss such topics with, however unfortunately where I live (Texas) a few of them were simply absurd with their arguments/ideas and constantly out voiced others who weren't as loud but much better informed, which left the majority of acquaintances extremely poorly informed as to the true ideas of feminism and why it's an important movement. Lastly I'll disagree with you. Most globally aware people would definitely not have such movements take away from their knowledge of the world at large, but you can't assume that everyone is so well informed. I don't mean to diminish that problems such as abuse and -blam!- that women face in developed countries (if you remember my original statement), however people are more inclined to be concerned about events that hit close to home, and the tragedies and atrocities that women face abroad are less likely to be heard by everyday people. As a result while the lady in OP's video is making good points (albeit with some examples that could use better context so that all the trolls and d-bags wouldn't get so butthurt) video games are such a small section on a much larger problem that people aren't aware of. To reiterate, in no way did I mean to word my argument so as to take away from the problems women face in developed nations, it's still a major problem, however education and awareness on abuse and -blam!- should be the primary topic of discussion on these matters because it is prevalent world wide. While the portrayal of women in video games is important to see the issues of how society views women, she could have very well expanded the discussion to include all forms of media (tv and movies) and how women are portrayed their as well. The expansion of the argument would Too many shows put women in roles as secretaries, nurses, etc. and even when they get a position as say a doctor, they are usually portrayed as fumbling, goofy, and incompetent. (For example one of my favorite shows, Scrubs, for the most part portrays the doctoral staff as primarily men with a large number of female nurses, and the main female doctor is truly portrayed as a buffoon) I simply mean to state that I think she could have had a better effect on viewers if she had included other media since it would have grabbed the attention of a not so make dominated community like gaming. Regardless I doubt you and I will agree on a lot of points any time soon, but I want to thank you for your criticism. You are obviously well informed (probably more so than me) and it's helpful for me to be able to have a civilized conversation where I can see where my own experience has cast a shadow on certain ideas that I hold. Thank you for your time, and again I apologize if I offended you, I did not mean to and common courtesy and intelligent arguments (which are, sadly, very rare on the internet) isn't something I come by often :-)
