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8/7/2014 6:42:47 PM
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Yeah, frankly I'm sick of the crybaby bullshit. People can posit whatever they want , but the reality is there are solid reasons it was done the way it was done. The issues they're trying to avoid have surfaced in every MMO that has used matchmaking, and they've negatively effected the game up to and including the game's ultimate failure. Adding in matchmaking for top end game content changes the dynamic of how people interact with that content. If you have matchmaking for raids, many people that would have otherwise not needed it to complete the content will use it anyway, for convenience sake. This will quickly make matchmaking a necessity for all but the most elite of the elite, and it will then rapidly ruin the end game. Matchmaking for content like this (see anything beyond turn 4 of the Coil of Bahamut in FFXIV), means that most groups will fail. Period. Repeatedly failing content over and over and unlikely ever having a chance at being rewarded for this effort is not fun, anyone that says otherwise is full of shit. This also means that you are volunteering other people to teach you how to clear this content or to carry you, and that's complete bullshit. There's also the issue of people leaving early; there is no way in hell a group of 6 people who've never played together or talked to each other before are going to get into a match-made game and stick it out through more than maybe one death in a raid that is supposed to take at least a couple of hours. There's also no way in hell I should have to sit in a queue for who knows how long, only to get wipe on the first boss and end up having people leave mid raid because they're frustrated or because mom is done making their dinner. In MMO's, there are typically plenty of people that don't do raid content and are content with that, because they have plenty of other content to keep them busy (which will be the case with Destiny, as well). They realize this content is too demanding for them in one way or another and move on - and those people in many cases are paying a monthly fee on top of paying for the game initially. People here are complaining because this approach is somewhat new to the console games, and because console players are particularly entitled. Again, there are dozens of examples of everything I've said here. Nothing you can say will change the fact that this is the reality that would come to be if they add matchmaking in for the raids in this game. Also, I'm sure someone will come along and try to discredit what I've said by saying "DESTINY IS NOT AN MMO". I don't care if you make a new genre for it called "Zebra Dick Waterslide (ZDW) - it might not share the scope of an MMO (yet), but when it comes to basically every other aspect of the game it shares a more in common with them than it doesn't (public events, raids, lore, weapons/gear, character progression and skill trees/sub classes, guilds/clans, and on and on).
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  • I agree and you should start a ZDW clan!

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  • The law of probability state eventually a diffrent outcome has to happen, next eventually mm will be included why? Because destiny has some havy competicion and second bungie will see that no mm will start affecting their sales, there for they will have no option but to put mm in raids.

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  • That gave me my laugh of the day. Most of the people who buy Destiny don't actually partake in this forum, or even bother following most Destiny news, and will absolutely not care in the slightest that there is no MM for raids. Raids are a tiny component of the very end game, and will not affect sales in the [b]slightest[/b].

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  • No matchmaking for raids shouldn't effect Bungie's sales, because that's just one out of about fifteen different game modes. I think you'll find that people are much better at sucking it up and just playing it anyway than you give them credit for.

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  • Past examples suggest the players will fixate on what they cannot do, especially since it is completely possible to explore the rest of the game's content between expansions and patches. TheGuyILostTo is definitely on to the fact that "casuals", by definition, constitute the majority. The majority is the money. The money makes the changes. Ultimately, we are not worried about an available matchmaking feature, we are trying to avoid nerfing. #justdontnerf

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  • Exactly. It's not as if there isn't plenty of content outside of raids.

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  • Edited by Dandelo: 8/7/2014 11:51:22 PM
    The law you speak of would also imply that you'll eventually produce a sentence clear of spelling and grammar issues, but I'd suggest neither of us hold our breath.

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  • Love this. -ZDW made me laugh uncontrollably for the last 10 minutes.

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  • MMO's also have better systems in place for chat and getting groups together for content Destiny does not have the needed systems to make no MM making viable, there is no chat, the only way to check if some is ready is to either use the companion app (which most user won't have or be aware of) or use the forums (which will be far to time consuming) or chatting with them from the consoles ( which again will far to much time consuming adding how ,any times you will need to do it). I still play FFXIV and people still mostly use party finder when finding groups (baring those with static groups) which is still MM but with more options to help streamline the whole thing. People will still ragequit, whine, get frustrated and everything else, MM isn't a bad thing what happens when your almost done but someone dc'ed or has to leave suddenly your screwed but if you do have MM you can turn on the option to fill last spot to two so you can kill that boss and get the loot. You don't want MM that's fine but mention alternatives that help everyone, a clan list in game that shows who is online, an orbit waiting area where you can see who wants to raid and who is geared for it.

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  • Very good point.

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  • I would just like to point out that Bungie want you to earn your loot. So we have to forget about switching people out so they can kill one boss and get a reward.

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  • It should also be pointed out that Bungie is likely not in support of a group making it 90% through a raid and being unable to progress because one or two of the members d/c'd and everyone's gear is breaking. The guy gets to skip to the last fight in a raid as payment for being the one who joined you when you needed him. If Bungie is truly concerned about us earning our loot, they simply will not nerf the game. #justdontnerf

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  • Another point I've made previously is that FF still doesn't allow matchmaking for the second coil, this is reserved for premades. Once this content is trivialized for that crowd and there's something new to move on to, they add it into matchmaking so everyone else can bounce their heads off of it. I wouldn't be opposed to that approach with Destiny, either.

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  • That would be one of the factors contributing to my letting that game go a long time ago.

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  • Lets not forget extreme primals, those are insane (Titan inparticular) but was still in the duty finder and it didn't change anything even now they are a challenge

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  • It works in Final Fantasy because of all those options (filter by language, ability to search if someone leaves, etc), but I would still argue that the crowd that game attracts is more likely to result in you getting a team of randoms that can complete an objective. The portion of the crowd that is drawn to this game solely because of Bungie's roots in Halo is going to be riddled with incompetence and impatience. I wouldn't have a problem with a way to check clan members and group together that way, but any kind of proximity/public chat channels to facilitate this would be a bad thing. There should be a barrier of entry for this content, plain and simple, and no amount of complaining will change that. Having content that is aimed at the "hardcore" gamers is essential to this kind of game. Those gamers continue to "test" new content by pushing through it long before most people will ever see it. Developers learn a lot from this both via feedback from this crowd (the leader of a guild I was in in Everquest was so vocal about the end game content, and so good at leading raids through it that he was hired by blizzard to work on WoW early on, for example), and by monitoring their progress/tactics. If you make this content easily accessible to everyone, it will inevitably cause it to be dumbed down, and these players will move on to something else.

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  • Matchmaking is not nerfing, it simply allows people to meet up. #justdontnerf

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  • You make valid points as far as the communication in game goes. But mm isn't the solution. Comm can be updated in a patch. And hopefully by the time most are ready for a raid, Bungie will have seen how people interact with each other and will make improvements in that area.

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  • This is pretty much what people are asking, better communication

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  • What, do you mean with the party/communication system? I don't see it being that hard to hook up with your friends. You can either use the proximity player system or just use the party system in the console itself. It's not that complicated. And as for speed... It isn't the quickest, but at least it works and is a pain to use, as far as I'm concerned at least. For raids though, I'd suggest finding friends with spare time or a community that will help you out, much like the boosting sessions that go on at TrueAchievements in other games.

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