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Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Buddy: 8/24/2014 11:30:27 PM
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Buddy

A Very Long Explanation of Damage.

Impact is the actual amount of damage dealt with a weapon. However, Attack is how effective that impact is against certain enemies. A gun with high attack will do more damage compared to the same gun with lower attack. As you fight higher levels, your weapons with lower attack will actually take damage penalties and do less damage whereas a weapon with higher attack will do the right amount of damage. Here's an example to make it simple: A weapon with LOW attack against a LOW level enemy will have the same damage efficiency as a weapon with HIGH attack against a HIGH level enemy, assuming the weapons have the same impact. This means every shots will take away the same amount of percentage of the enemies health in both situations. So both weapons will kill their opponents with 10 shots if each shot did 10% of their health. Impact is how much damage is being dealt before being altered by the attack penalties (if there are any penalties). For example, you can kill a level 8 Dreg easy with your level 57 attack weapons, but a level 20 Dreg will give a penalty of like x0.99, so low the damage output says "immune"; this is why it took some people 2 hours to kill one in the beta. If you use a super high attack weapon on a level one enemy, you actually don't like x1000 more damage: this is so you can't one shot level 1 Reaver Captains on Earth and easily farm. The formula is very weird and is simply a balancing factor. Range is how long until your damage begins to drop off. Let's say an auto rifle does 30 damage per shot. It will maintain that 30 damage for some distance and then the damage will drop to let's say 10 damage at range. A sniper, having much more range, will maintain their damage for a very long distance so that you could hit a target and close range for lets say 100 damage and a target at very long range for still 100 damage. This is common in FPS games. Also, you may see snipers with a lot of range (duh) but kind of low impact, this is because the stats are only in relation to the weapons of the SAME type. So compared to shotguns and fusion rifles, it does less damage per shot, but does ALOT of damage down range not to mention headshots, which is my next topic: NOTE: By headshots I also mean critical shots, some enemies have their weak spots elsewhere (Vex, Spider Tank) Headshots have a different damage multiplier for different weapons and will appear in yellow numbers (they are technically called precision shots/kills). From what I tested, they are: Auto Rifles: x1.5 Pulse Rifles: I haven't tested, maybe x2? Scout Rifles: x3 Hand Cannons: I haven't tested, maybe x3? Shotgun: I think it's x1.33 or x1.25, I forgot. Fusion Rifles: (Explanation below) Snipers: x5 I haven't tested heavy weapons. Fusion rifles have NO headshot multipliers, so always aim for the body as it shoots multiple shots once you charge it. You may think "why would I use a fusion then if i can use a shotgun?" Well, although shotguns have more damage, they have very little range and fusion rifles have very good range (less than snipers and scout rifles though) and more damage per shot, but less shots per trigger pull/hold. However, I would wouldn't use it at medium range as you will probably miss your shots as it shots a spread. Shotguns, you will do almost no damage unless you are in maybe around melee range. And you won't do high damage unless you are point blank. Also, you can do headshots with shotguns, unlike fusions, but remember: you have NO range. Shields: Some enemies have shields, like fallen captains and hive wizards. You CANNOT do headshot damage on shields, HOWEVER: elemental damage will INCREASE SIGNIFICANTLY your damage. NOTE: You will get this bonus damage when using the right element: -Arc for Blue shields (usually Fallen) -Fire for Orange shields (usually Hive) -Void isn't known yet. I'm guessing for Purple shields (probably Vex) -Not sure what's up with Cabal Also, I should mention that using the wrong elemental type does less damage (needs testing). Also, the higher the impact of a weapon, the more often in causes a stagger/knock back effect. Keep in mind weapons with low impact make it up with high RoF. In crucible, everyone has 67% of their health as shield. Not sure if same headshot rules apply. There is a lot of controversy. But in hearing that headshots do work more than not. Since fusion rifles can't do headshot damage anyways and ALWAYS do elemental damage, they are pretty much the go to weapon to take out shields without having to get too close. A shotgun with the right element aiming for the head at super close range (like hugging range) will do a lot more damage, but its not easy to get a headshot from that close as the target will move and you put yourself in a lot of danger, that's when fusion rifles obviously come in. Now, your thinking: "what do you mean? Headshots don't work on shields!" Well your right, but with a high damaging shotgun with the correct element, it will easily cut through the shield and all that extra damage, that was aimed at the head, WILL become headshot damage. So I have been going over special weapons for a while now, I'm going to explain them with more simplicity: -Snipers do least damage, but do the most with headshots. -Shotguns do most damage (besides sniper headshot) but have almost no range. -Fusion rifles are a good mix of range and damage, but can't do headshots, but ALWAYS have elemental damage With Primary weapons, currently, hand cannons are simply outclassed: -Scout rifles have highest damage, but are semi automatic. High headshot multiplier. -Pulse rifles fire in bursts, and are a middle ground in terms of damage. -Auto rifles are fully automatic, but generally do the least amount of damage -Hand cannons technically do the most damage, but their small mag and very little ammo and high recoil makes them worthless. With heavies, it's either: -Do I want to blow things up? -Or do I want to spray people down? Both are very effective. I want to also mention, every weapon can have elemental damage except for Primary weapons. Also, different rarities have different attributes: WEAPONS: Basic: Nothing Uncommon: 1 Attachment, 1 Ability Rare: 2 Attachments, 1 Ability Legendary: 2 Attachments, 2 Abilities Exotic: 2 Attachments, 2 Abilities ARMOR: Basic: Nothing Uncommon: 1 Ability, 1 Attribute Rare: 2 Abilities, 1 Attribute Legendary: 2 Abilities, 2 Attributes Exotic: 2 Abilities, 3 Attributes BOOTS: Basic: Nothing Uncommon: 1 Attribute Rare: 1 Ability, 1 Attribute Legendary: 2 Abilities, 1 Attribute Exotic: 2 Abilities, 2 Attributes Not 100% sure on boots. Weapons with highest damage per shot (Uncommons only during beta; the regulator hand cannon has same damage as searcher hand cannon, but is the rare version, I'm just doing the Uncommons, so note they will have equivalents in rarity) Auto Rifles: Cydonia Pulse: (I don't know) Scout: Jigoku Hand Cannon: Searcher Shotgun: Copperhead / Outlander (Outlander had more range usually) Sniper: Gozen Fusion: Nox Revus III Keep in kind these generally have less RoF. Some statistics about some weapon upgrades: -Focused Fire (Increased damage/slower fire rate while aiming) increase damage by 50% but considerably lower fire rate. I feel this is probably the one of the best upgrades as it allows for a selective fire that has more utility at longer ranges and keeps the same at close quarters while hipfiring. My Cydonia has this and I've noticed it to be very good in PvP and PvE. This is probably the best upgrade for autos because of its selective fire and ammo conservation, perfect for the Cydonia Class Weapons (High impact low RoF Autos) and I actually like it more than my Shingen now. I also have it on my RARE Galahad-E, I so desperately wish it will save after beta, lol. Also, the damage increase matches the headshot multiplier and the slower RoF helps accuracy. This combination makes headshots easier to get and x2.25 more damage on each headshot compared to hipfire. -Half Full (Bottom half of mag does more damage) increased damage on bottom half of mag. The first shot of bottem half gains 1 extra point of damage and increase until last shot does 7 (tested on Cydonia) this isn't a very good upgrade in my opinion unless you have a large magazine and even then, 4 points of damage extra on average is pretty useless, Id keep looking for a better upgrade This is a lot of writing, excuse me if I make a mistake. I am not 100% sure of everything here, probably 90%. Remember this is beta and I don't know if the same calculation will apply when game launches. I hope hand cannons get a rework as they don't have good ammo economy. To make them good, they need at least a headshot multiplier of x5 with more base damage (impact). They should be doing more HEADSHOT damage at close range than snipers because of their long reload and small mag with a max reserve ammo of like 50. This buff would ONLY really work in PvE, I don't know how to buff them for PvP as this would make them overpowered in situations.
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  • You know...after all the hours I spent on the game...you'd think I would have caught on to the whole shields thing... I'm facepalming so hard right now... Thanks for the post though, very helpful!

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  • Glad to see someone other than myself actually testing/ playing with gear! I played around with a lot of weapons and this just blows my findings out of the water.

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  • Edited by Lannik: 7/28/2014 6:34:49 PM
    I'm not sure if you're playing the same version of the game that I was, but from the Auto-Rifles I collected (and I used Auto-Rifles almost exclusively in the Crucible/Iron Banner) the Galahad had the highest [b]Damage Per Bullet[/b] hands down, as it had the highest Impact stat of all the AR variants I found. The Cydonia's Impact stat was comparatively low.

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  • Very nice post, thanks for all the thought you put into it. Would I be correct in saying attack is similar to to-hit stats in games like Rift then? And impact is the actual damage done after?

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    • hate to say this but range is distances I have noticed that while shooting at enimys with a shot gun that has close to zero rang and was better off throwing a knife I had to be ontop of them in comparions to the sniper rifle where well you can sniper then from a good distances

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      • 100% true but people didnt understand it. Even when i told them to try it out they said no, the number is bigger so it has to be stronger... I mean just go with the cursor over a stat und you see what it does... Thanks OP for sharing that info again.

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        • One ability I want to point out is outlaw. Outlaw: Precise kills drastically increase reload speed. However after I get a headshot/critical kill not only did I reload faster but it also dealt more damage for a few shots (had it on a scout rifle so four shots after dealt more than normal damage). I don't know if it's true but it's just something I noticed and I saw the ability on every gun except auto rifles.

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          • Edited by Buddy: 7/28/2014 11:04:02 PM
            I would really appreciate it if DeeJ came by and said whether or not my information is correct/confirm anything. I don't want to feed people bad information :( I'm confident, but I only had a week to test stuff out and 80% of that wasn't testing (it was becoming LEGEND). Plus it's beta, so yeah.

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            • I think your headshot multipliers are a bit off. I've heard a few bigger youtubers say headshots were 3x across the board (save for snipers) That number makes more sense to me. (also they had access the staff at Bungie which lends a little more veracity to their claim) With an auto rifle I needed 9-10 shots to the body to kill but only 2 to the head to kill. (this with the Cydonia AR3 the Sahara AR3 needed 3-4 headshots because it is a MUCH lower impact weapon) Your explanation of the attack number seems right on though and was a cause of much confusion for many people.

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              • im not sure if u put this but another thing ive noticed is weapons dont become slaughterers of low lvl monsters at high lvl. the dmg is all ... relative? as in a high lvl weapon will do lower dmg to low lvl monsters then it does to high lvl monster but the amount of life bar taken is the same. so if im shooting a lvl 1 or lvl 4 vandal in the head with a attack upgraded lvl 8 scout rifle both take two head shots to kill. i got numbers to prove it in a topic i posted on this forum i just have no idea how to find it so if someone else does please link it

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                • Ok. Im suffering destiny withdraws now :(

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                • Theoretically speaking, if two weapons had identical attack ratings and rate of fire, but one had less impact. You believe damage numbers would be lower on the lower impact weapon?

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                  • I had the cydonia and i loved it. It owned at longer rang then other autorifles

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                  • I look at it this way. The higher the impact, the better. Period.

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                    • i usually look for a good impact/fire rate/stability ratio

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                    • U actually took the time to write all of this?

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                      • Great info thanks for the work & typing

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                        • So... impact or damage?

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                          • You seem pretty knowledgable about upgrades rarities and damage so it might be a long shot but i wanted to ask, i got a pulse rifle and one of its upgrades was that it shoots automatically i got it but the gun still shot in bursts was i missing something

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                            • nice work on this.

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                            • Edited by v s d j GDP: 7/31/2014 7:55:08 AM
                              Wow, really? Hand Cannons are coming off as weak to you? I was pulling off strings of headshots with them. The difference is that their recoil is much more predictable than the other primary weapons - if you compensate for it right, the recoil will essentially line up your next shot for you. My K/D in the Crucible shot up the moment I started using one.

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                              • Thanks for the information! Helped alot!

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                                • I believe cabal Have Kinetic shield they are the only enemy carrying a solid shield so yeah primary won't be best choice.

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                                  • http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/28aj53/analysis_weapon_stats_attack_vs_impact/

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                                  • Thx

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                                  • This is a buttloaf of information! Thank you for taking the time to make this post!

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