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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Buddy: 8/24/2014 11:30:27 PM
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Buddy

A Very Long Explanation of Damage.

Impact is the actual amount of damage dealt with a weapon. However, Attack is how effective that impact is against certain enemies. A gun with high attack will do more damage compared to the same gun with lower attack. As you fight higher levels, your weapons with lower attack will actually take damage penalties and do less damage whereas a weapon with higher attack will do the right amount of damage. Here's an example to make it simple: A weapon with LOW attack against a LOW level enemy will have the same damage efficiency as a weapon with HIGH attack against a HIGH level enemy, assuming the weapons have the same impact. This means every shots will take away the same amount of percentage of the enemies health in both situations. So both weapons will kill their opponents with 10 shots if each shot did 10% of their health. Impact is how much damage is being dealt before being altered by the attack penalties (if there are any penalties). For example, you can kill a level 8 Dreg easy with your level 57 attack weapons, but a level 20 Dreg will give a penalty of like x0.99, so low the damage output says "immune"; this is why it took some people 2 hours to kill one in the beta. If you use a super high attack weapon on a level one enemy, you actually don't like x1000 more damage: this is so you can't one shot level 1 Reaver Captains on Earth and easily farm. The formula is very weird and is simply a balancing factor. Range is how long until your damage begins to drop off. Let's say an auto rifle does 30 damage per shot. It will maintain that 30 damage for some distance and then the damage will drop to let's say 10 damage at range. A sniper, having much more range, will maintain their damage for a very long distance so that you could hit a target and close range for lets say 100 damage and a target at very long range for still 100 damage. This is common in FPS games. Also, you may see snipers with a lot of range (duh) but kind of low impact, this is because the stats are only in relation to the weapons of the SAME type. So compared to shotguns and fusion rifles, it does less damage per shot, but does ALOT of damage down range not to mention headshots, which is my next topic: NOTE: By headshots I also mean critical shots, some enemies have their weak spots elsewhere (Vex, Spider Tank) Headshots have a different damage multiplier for different weapons and will appear in yellow numbers (they are technically called precision shots/kills). From what I tested, they are: Auto Rifles: x1.5 Pulse Rifles: I haven't tested, maybe x2? Scout Rifles: x3 Hand Cannons: I haven't tested, maybe x3? Shotgun: I think it's x1.33 or x1.25, I forgot. Fusion Rifles: (Explanation below) Snipers: x5 I haven't tested heavy weapons. Fusion rifles have NO headshot multipliers, so always aim for the body as it shoots multiple shots once you charge it. You may think "why would I use a fusion then if i can use a shotgun?" Well, although shotguns have more damage, they have very little range and fusion rifles have very good range (less than snipers and scout rifles though) and more damage per shot, but less shots per trigger pull/hold. However, I would wouldn't use it at medium range as you will probably miss your shots as it shots a spread. Shotguns, you will do almost no damage unless you are in maybe around melee range. And you won't do high damage unless you are point blank. Also, you can do headshots with shotguns, unlike fusions, but remember: you have NO range. Shields: Some enemies have shields, like fallen captains and hive wizards. You CANNOT do headshot damage on shields, HOWEVER: elemental damage will INCREASE SIGNIFICANTLY your damage. NOTE: You will get this bonus damage when using the right element: -Arc for Blue shields (usually Fallen) -Fire for Orange shields (usually Hive) -Void isn't known yet. I'm guessing for Purple shields (probably Vex) -Not sure what's up with Cabal Also, I should mention that using the wrong elemental type does less damage (needs testing). Also, the higher the impact of a weapon, the more often in causes a stagger/knock back effect. Keep in mind weapons with low impact make it up with high RoF. In crucible, everyone has 67% of their health as shield. Not sure if same headshot rules apply. There is a lot of controversy. But in hearing that headshots do work more than not. Since fusion rifles can't do headshot damage anyways and ALWAYS do elemental damage, they are pretty much the go to weapon to take out shields without having to get too close. A shotgun with the right element aiming for the head at super close range (like hugging range) will do a lot more damage, but its not easy to get a headshot from that close as the target will move and you put yourself in a lot of danger, that's when fusion rifles obviously come in. Now, your thinking: "what do you mean? Headshots don't work on shields!" Well your right, but with a high damaging shotgun with the correct element, it will easily cut through the shield and all that extra damage, that was aimed at the head, WILL become headshot damage. So I have been going over special weapons for a while now, I'm going to explain them with more simplicity: -Snipers do least damage, but do the most with headshots. -Shotguns do most damage (besides sniper headshot) but have almost no range. -Fusion rifles are a good mix of range and damage, but can't do headshots, but ALWAYS have elemental damage With Primary weapons, currently, hand cannons are simply outclassed: -Scout rifles have highest damage, but are semi automatic. High headshot multiplier. -Pulse rifles fire in bursts, and are a middle ground in terms of damage. -Auto rifles are fully automatic, but generally do the least amount of damage -Hand cannons technically do the most damage, but their small mag and very little ammo and high recoil makes them worthless. With heavies, it's either: -Do I want to blow things up? -Or do I want to spray people down? Both are very effective. I want to also mention, every weapon can have elemental damage except for Primary weapons. Also, different rarities have different attributes: WEAPONS: Basic: Nothing Uncommon: 1 Attachment, 1 Ability Rare: 2 Attachments, 1 Ability Legendary: 2 Attachments, 2 Abilities Exotic: 2 Attachments, 2 Abilities ARMOR: Basic: Nothing Uncommon: 1 Ability, 1 Attribute Rare: 2 Abilities, 1 Attribute Legendary: 2 Abilities, 2 Attributes Exotic: 2 Abilities, 3 Attributes BOOTS: Basic: Nothing Uncommon: 1 Attribute Rare: 1 Ability, 1 Attribute Legendary: 2 Abilities, 1 Attribute Exotic: 2 Abilities, 2 Attributes Not 100% sure on boots. Weapons with highest damage per shot (Uncommons only during beta; the regulator hand cannon has same damage as searcher hand cannon, but is the rare version, I'm just doing the Uncommons, so note they will have equivalents in rarity) Auto Rifles: Cydonia Pulse: (I don't know) Scout: Jigoku Hand Cannon: Searcher Shotgun: Copperhead / Outlander (Outlander had more range usually) Sniper: Gozen Fusion: Nox Revus III Keep in kind these generally have less RoF. Some statistics about some weapon upgrades: -Focused Fire (Increased damage/slower fire rate while aiming) increase damage by 50% but considerably lower fire rate. I feel this is probably the one of the best upgrades as it allows for a selective fire that has more utility at longer ranges and keeps the same at close quarters while hipfiring. My Cydonia has this and I've noticed it to be very good in PvP and PvE. This is probably the best upgrade for autos because of its selective fire and ammo conservation, perfect for the Cydonia Class Weapons (High impact low RoF Autos) and I actually like it more than my Shingen now. I also have it on my RARE Galahad-E, I so desperately wish it will save after beta, lol. Also, the damage increase matches the headshot multiplier and the slower RoF helps accuracy. This combination makes headshots easier to get and x2.25 more damage on each headshot compared to hipfire. -Half Full (Bottom half of mag does more damage) increased damage on bottom half of mag. The first shot of bottem half gains 1 extra point of damage and increase until last shot does 7 (tested on Cydonia) this isn't a very good upgrade in my opinion unless you have a large magazine and even then, 4 points of damage extra on average is pretty useless, Id keep looking for a better upgrade This is a lot of writing, excuse me if I make a mistake. I am not 100% sure of everything here, probably 90%. Remember this is beta and I don't know if the same calculation will apply when game launches. I hope hand cannons get a rework as they don't have good ammo economy. To make them good, they need at least a headshot multiplier of x5 with more base damage (impact). They should be doing more HEADSHOT damage at close range than snipers because of their long reload and small mag with a max reserve ammo of like 50. This buff would ONLY really work in PvE, I don't know how to buff them for PvP as this would make them overpowered in situations.
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  • Psi Tempus I believe is the best pulse rifle

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  • You sure attack is a level determining factor. I assumed it was average base weapon DPS for non-critical damage. In the alpha when there were many more gun options and damage types it was easier to see. Every time i would find a gun with higher impact it always had a reduced rate of fire to offset it and ended up with the same attack stat. If the game is set up like basically any mmo if you find a level 10 weapon they all have near identical damage per second but vary in attack speed and damage per attack. The system could just be simplified with the impact/rate of fires bars instead of endlessly increasing damage numbers on the weapons like in other mmos. Are we even sure its a level penalty and not an increase in targets damage resistance as their armor improves.

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    • with fusion rifles, even though you don't get to crit with it, you still do more damage hitting an enemy in the weak spot, it just doesn't turn yellow. Also impact is effected by the ROF (rate of fire) of a weapon. You said sniper rifles had low impact which is wrong, they have high impact, just like scout rifles since they are slow firing weapons, they do more damage per bullet. weapons with a high ROF has lower impacts to balance the weapon out. For example a scout rifle let's say a scout rifle does 100 damage per shot and you switch to a Pulse rifle the same level, since the pulse rifle shoots in bursts of 3, it's only going to do 33 damage per bullet. Also fusion rifles are a good mid ranged weapon. even though it hits multiple times, it's not a spread shot like the shotgun. I would say it fires in more like a stream or a single long bullet.

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      • All of this is good and fine, but Attack is simply a measurement of damage per second.

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        • This is really helpful, but I would rather they explain all that in game. Actually give accurate definitions and stats in game. Like how having optic A give you more stability while optic B give you a shorter reload time. How the heck does that happen? Hopefully they will give you accurate stats so you won't have to use third party sites (like Symthic) for stats.

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        • Awesome, thank you for that. I was just last night wondering how you could compare lower and higher level guns with impact bars. Still, this system makes it hell for carefully comparing 2 different weapons on the fly. I was already having trouble picking through my limited gun collection (you can hold so few), and all I knew was the descriptions you get when highlighting the stats. I love handcannons though. They have a hidden stat: pimp+1. :P They're awesome if you take half a second to line up shots. One shot headshot kills over and over feels great. I am -really- hoping there will be a lot more gun types than just these few, though... so hopefully you'll give a heads up on those too on release. :P

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          • I accidentally dismantled all of my weapons, and had to solo a mission on hard with nothing but a hand cannon. I survived, but it was incredibly difficult. The recoil, made successive shots near impossible. And just because a 6 bullet mag isnt bad enough, you can only carry like 66 bullets. They should be buffed or put to special slot

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            • Searcher Mk. 37 deals 62 damage and is a 3 headshot kill in most cases

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              • I just got the Jigoku today, and I was wrecking people in the Crucible. Overall, I think the scout rifles are superior: they have great range and headshot potential which is good whether in PvP or PvE. As for all the other information, it really helps to know where all those damage values are coming from. Impace, range, and attack all seem equally useful, I wonder why only one of them gets an actual point value.

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                • 2
                  So.....much......to.....read.....not.....going.....to.....make....it......(Drags self across ground)

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                  • It can't be that long, I bet i- OH GOD!..... *Grabs glasses and apple juice and lies down on bed.*

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                  • Great post thank you. Now wouldn't it be nice for bungie to actually have a clue about weapons and how they work in real life. as a gun enthusiast ( yes I am a member of that three lettered organization as well ) I find the lack of realism disappointing. and not just with guns but gravity as well. I.E. the Moon, or more importantly planets or moons with less gravity than Earth.

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                    • my EVE career is catching up to me, I would read much more about mechanics like this, keep it up!

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                      • Man I ant believe beta is over. I was farming for some glimmer. Almost hit the cap AGAIN. Lol.

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                      • WTB Cntrl+F

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                      • OK: IMPACT IS LIKE BASE DAMAGE Attack modifies that damage depending on the enemy level.

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                        • That seemed like a lot of work, to the point you didn't even get to complete it. Overall amazing post, I agree with hand cannons they need to up the headshot damage somehow.

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                        • You need a YouTube channel.

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                          • I don't know what that word means. But this would be super helpful. They are very vague about a lot of what this all means.

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                          • Edited by FreakGIB: 7/28/2014 8:15:52 AM
                            i found out with my Hunter if i trow a knife to a Captain with it's shield up the shield is in most cases completely gone. anyone else noticed the same. also when playing Story 5 at the end where u get all the waves of enemy's i moslty played with 2 people we got to Wizzards at the same time if i use my rocked launcher at the correct time they went both down in 1 shot.

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                            • Very useful information, thank you. Hope you can use some paragraphs for easier reading.

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                            • Thank you very much for this post - it really cleared up a lot of questions I had. One question - I noticed there are certain enemies have a yellow bar (vs normal red bar). I assume these are armored... Does impact play a role in punching through armor, or is there an AP bullet type (something like the acid ammo in Borderlands)? Thanks again for the information!

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                              • Great post. Glad to see the beginnings of "theory-crafting" here. Very good info.

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                                • Thank you for this my fine sir Finally a post that isn't about how bad destiny is!!!!

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                                • Outstanding post, a lot of thought went into this post. Hey Bungie, throw Buddy some in-game glimmer for this. This type of player intrest is what will keep Destiny going for years.

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                                • You know...after all the hours I spent on the game...you'd think I would have caught on to the whole shields thing... I'm facepalming so hard right now... Thanks for the post though, very helpful!

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