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originally posted in: Halo 4 Terminal Questions
Edited by Lord of Admirals: 5/30/2014 9:03:35 PM
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[quote]at the beginning, the Didact wants to save the Humans. I don't see how this could lead to his hatred of them.[/quote]The Didact is a strict adherer of the Mantle. His original intention was to smack them on the back of the wrist to show them the errors of their ways. However, as the war escalated and billions were killed over 1,000 years, the Didact's more hopeful outlook on the war changed. [quote]Furthermore, the Librarian seems to want to destroy the humans, yet in the next terminal, she wants to save them (it seems like her and her husband are in opposite opinion.[/quote]The Librarian has an interesting view on the Mantle. She didn't follow the Mantle early on, finding it futile as the Ecumene's enforcement of the Mantle was a parody. Her initial and arguably extreme reaction towards Humanity's aggression was the result of her view on the attacks. As the Forerunners expanded, they displaced countless species. As a result, the Lifeworkers relocated them to world preserves on the edge of the Ecumene. These are the worlds humanity attacked. In effect, the Librarian saw humanity as destroyers of life and her work. As she looked deeper, she began to realize the true nature of the attacks. (Note: Not all the Terminals take place in chronological order) [quote]in the second one, the humans hav found a planet they think might be flood-free. how hard could it be to send a message to the forerunners "hey, there's this alien parasite attacking us, it'd be great if you guys could help out. also, this is why we've been eradicating your planets. you would have done it, too."[/quote]Forerunners were already not fond of humans. Claiming that a stellar parasite has infested their planet would lead to bureaucratic discussions, or outright disbelief, allowing the parasite to spread and gain strength. The infestation on Earth is a good comparison. Had the area and human population centers on the west side of Africa not been vaporized, the [i]"Earth would have fallen in hours."[/i] [quote]how could the halos be a better plan than the didact's prometheans (which were decently effective. option 1: killl everything in the galaxy. option 2: let stuff live, get more soldiers in the composer, and defeat the flood. then return life to the galaxy. it seems like the halos are ridiculously unreasonable when the prometheans (in enough numbers) could at least put up a good fight.[/quote]The Prometheans themselves violate the Mantle. Not only that, but it was at the end of the war. The Didact created the Prometheans in the final year of the Forerunner-Flood War. Halos were the best option, because they were the last option. Every other possibility had been tried and failed through actual ineffectiveness or political expedience. [quote]why didn't they just leave the galaxy? it's not like they couldn't make it to another near by galaxy. i know that they touch on the galaxy topic a bit in cryptum, but that doesn't explain why they'd rather completely irradicate life in that galaxy instead of just moving to another one.[/quote]Wielding the Mantle means you serve as protectors of all life in the galaxy. In their ideology, they couldn't just abandon their principles. Not only that, but the logistics of moving to a different galaxy combined with slipspace debt would be impossible. Even if they did pull it off, they'd be damning the galaxy. After the Flood consumed the galaxy, they would simply move on to the next and so forth. It's like asking why the Native Americans didn't just migrate away from the colonists. Same goes for any conflict. It's their home, and they feel they have the right to defend and protect it.
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  • Slipspace debt? ?

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  • What are you confused about?

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  • I don't know what it is... What is slipspace debt?

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  • Well, I'm sure you know what Slipstream Space is. Anyway, since FTL travel isn't supposed to be possible, the use of slipspace to bypass this law causes paradoxes to occur. The paradoxes subside via a process called causal reconciliation. In effect, it creates a bandwidth for slipspace travel. For humans and Covenant, slipspace debt isn't accumulated because casual reconciliation occurs at a fast enough rate that it never builds up. However, for the Forerunners, it was always building up due to the sheer amount of slipspace traffic, and distances traveled over the vast amount of space their Ecumene covered. This, interestingly enough, resulted in the Forerunners keeping track of their slipspace travel. At the end of a trip, they'd receive a token of reconciliation, letting them know how long they'd need to wait before the paradoxes subsided. Now, with trillions of Forerunners across 3 million worlds, it's impossible to always let casual reconciliation finish its job. As the paradoxes in space-time accumulate, it slows down the speed at which ships travel in slipspace. This accumulation of paradoxes is referred to as Slipspace Debt. Slipspace Debt is not constant. Larger ships generate more debt than smaller ships, and further distances in slipspace traveled generate more debt than shorter distances. Some interesting examples of Slipspace Debt: 1. The Librarian's travel to the LMC resulted in enough debt accumulated that the entire Ecumene was not allowed to enter slipspace for a year to allow for casual reconciliation to bring space to normal levels. 2. Halos being sent through slipspace to different locations resulted in so much accumulation of debt, they actually shunted relatively nearby ships out of slipspace. 3. Forerunners lost contact with entire themas of the Ecumene as result of the amount of slipspace debt generated at the end of the Forerunner-Flood War. (After the defeat of the Forerunners, right before the Halos were fired, casual reconciliation allowed communications to continue again, revealing thousands upon thousands of cries of help from survivors. These were not exclusive to Forerunner)

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  • Huh, looks like they deviated from Eric Nylund's best attempts at making the sci-fi realistic. (Though it's a good patch for a plothole, better than many movies)

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  • What do you mean? Eric Nylund's take on slipspace is still entirely canon.

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  • I mean they are adding more unrealistic stuff, obviously we are talking science fiction here, But Nylund usually based as much as he could off actual physics and medicine, and when something couldn't make sense he just offered a quick, mysterious explanation, it feels like the new writing style is to build an alternate reality for the story, Vs. A modified version of the real world. Sort of like Jules Vern Vs. Frank Herbert... (I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this, it's just a new pattern I see, 343 wants to explain things that were left unsaid in older lore)

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  • Edited by Lord of Admirals: 5/31/2014 4:26:26 AM
    I don't understand how this is unrealistic. Nylund was the one who brought up casual reconciliation and Greg Bear put it on a galactic scale. [quote]alternate reality for the story, Vs. A modified version of the real world.[/quote]Still feels like a modified version of the real world to me.

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  • I don't know what it is... What is slipspace debt?

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  • [quote]Claiming that a stellar parasite has infested their planet would lead to bureaucratic discussions, or outright disbelief, allowing the parasite to spread and gain strength[/quote] This is just some bullshit. how long would a discussion like this take? an hour? a few hours? how much damage can the flood really do in that time? it just seems awfully convenient that they couldn't talk over coffee about the survival of their galaxy.

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  • Edited by Lord of Admirals: 5/30/2014 9:15:37 PM
    [quote]how long would a discussion like this take?[/quote]How would the Forerunners react if humanity just showed up with their most advanced warships, and opened a dialogue claiming they need to eradicate the world they're on to stop a stellar parasite they'd never heard of or encountered before. [quote]a few hours?[/quote]Seems likely. And that's if the Forerunners there even want to talk. For all we know, they could simply summon Warrior-Servants and hunker down. [i]"Had the plan failed... the Earth would have fallen in hours." -Cutscene, Co-Op, Halo: Spartan Assault[/i] [quote]how much damage can the flood really do in that time?[/quote]They could hijack numerous slipspace capable ships and consume enough biomass on the world to make it impossible to stop them without eradicating the entire planet. Of course, humanity understood the true threat the Flood posed, and as a result, adopted a zero tolerance policy to guarantee utter victory over the Flood every time.

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  • [quote]How would the Forerunners react if humanity just showed up with their most advanced warships, and opened a dialogue claiming they need to eradicate the world they're on to stop a stellar parasite they'd never heard of or encountered before. [/quote] most likely skeptical. but if the stakes are high enough, you'd think humans would've done what is necessary. at this point, the frunners deserve some sort of explanation. [quote]They could hijack numerous slipspace capable ships and consume enough biomass on the world to make it impossible to stop them without eradicating the entire planet. Of course, humanity understood the true threat the Flood posed, and as a result, adopted a zero tolerance policy to guarantee utter victory over the Flood every time.[/quote] there's really no reason LoA couldn't just fly off to meet the frunners while his second in command used that zero tolerance shit we just talked about.

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  • Edited by Lord of Admirals: 5/30/2014 9:33:22 PM
    [quote]most likely skeptical. but if the stakes are high enough, you'd think humans would've done what is necessary. at this point, the frunners deserve some sort of explanation.[/quote]One they would not believe. As humans revealed the truth behind their attacks, the Forerunners saw no evidence of it, and thought the Flood was a concept made up by humans to justify their attacks. [quote]there's really no reason LoA couldn't just fly off to meet the frunners while his second in command used that zero tolerance shit we just talked about.[/quote]Hey Forerunners, I'm going to board your ship. Oh, don't mind the fact my ships are incinerating your world. Now, I'm here to talk to you about something I have no evidence for: the Flood. The Lord of Admirals was not one to play politics. Especially when it involved a force as deadly as the Flood. As the Forerunner-Flood War came to a close, the IsoDidact described [b][u]the Flood as being the antithesis to life itself.[/u][/b] I simply cannot stress enough how deadly the Flood actually are.

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  • Edited by kgj: 5/30/2014 9:13:45 PM
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    [quote]it just seems awfully convenient that they couldn't talk over coffee about the survival of their galaxy.[/quote] let forerunners be party A let humans be party B let flood be party C party A wants to destroy party B party B wants to destroy party A party B wants to destroy party C therefore party B should ask party A for help on destroying party C?

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