Okay, that's good to know, but people still avoid bans anyways when you report them. I went through this with several Moderators the other day, you cannot and will not do anything if they edited all their posts away, so I find it hard to believe that if every edit you make is recorded, why did this 200+ thread happen when the main replier to me was immediately hostile from the beginning? [quote]If you have a specific example, please tell me about it, but I'm pretty sure you don't have one.[/quote] *cough* Smart-ass *cough* http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post?id=61560070&path=1

[quote]Reporting someone for "Spam" is for stuff like "free MS points here" type stuff, [/quote] Looks like I've been misusing the spam option...

I bet if they renamed "Mute" to "Ban" there would be fewer complaints.

Same reply that they gave me, disappointing. Go and actually read through it all, the user in question was being like that to at least two other users, it wasn't just me and he was most certainly acting worse than a common internet jerk, I'd quote some of it from memory, but I'd rather not reciprocate what he said, since he's already edited most of it and I've already contested it with two Moderators. That's all the proof I really need that A) You cannot do anything after someone has edited their posts, and B) the system doesn't seem to work as I've been seeing several times over. Here's a quote I said to True Underdog earlier: [quote]Because I would goddamn guarantee that I see more messed up posts and stuff on here on a daily basis than half of the Moderators ever do, and I report it when it crosses a line, and nothing gets done for hours at a time. I remember a thread where two people were Role-Playing a sex fantasy. Was the most gnarly and disgusting thing I had seen in some time, yet after my several dozen reports to each of their filthy posts, nothing got done on the same day. It took at least a day and a half for anything to get done, because unless you guys come across it and see it for what it is in your own viewpoint, you will NEVER think it's broaching a line that someone else might see, and that's the problem with it. Because I could have muted the both of them, but then other people happen across it and see the flagrantly disgusting profanity and obscenity, and I'm just hiding it for my own sake, instead of actually making an active effort to see that something gets done. [/quote]

Yet it still fits within the area I'm addressing, funny thing. They are two different things, but since you cannot apparently see what the posts were before they got edited, you're just assuming that it was simple common jerk nonsense and that I'm trying to find retribution for my hurt feelings. You're supposed to be the highest authority on this site, yet you're replying even more mockingly and immature than half of the Moderators I spoke to. Can't say that isn't disappointing, but when you would rather change the subject to my personal motivations instead of addressing what I see all the time, you're doing the same thing you claim I am. Yet you missed my point again, muting just gives us the option to hide things we don't agree with from our own viewpoint, yet it does nothing to stem all of those other times when other people simply remain aloof and lax to inappropriate conduct throughout the site, because they have the mentality that "oh everything is fine because we've been given half useful tools to hide things we don't like, but we're fine with all those other people that get thrown under the bus because they might either be new here, or they haven't gotten adjusted to the site's mechanics yet, so we'll let them deal with those things because I can have a Mute feature that only partially works". I have a dinner night out to attend to, but don't worry I'll continue replying to this later.

Why hasn't a page in Community or here been made to address a lot of the features of the site then? It seems that unless we actively seek out information on the mechanics of it, we will never be told of how it works. (There might be one already, but I myself have not seen it besides some details that Recon and Foman posted.) That's counter-productive to what I've heard though, "Meh, no reason" was said to not actually feed into any of the systems. If you reported a post like that, it would not be seen by the Moderators because of the blatant lack of any of the categories it fits into, which is why it fits with Muting because you can Mute them for whatever reason you want, but Reporting is a different case. Then comes into the issue with Alternate accounts, which I could have sworn were looked upon more harshly on B.old, but that view has since become null and void since nothing is being done to stem one user from having several dozen alts. We could have a system that, for a time, denies access to the site for anyone making accounts under a certain name, you mark the specifics like "Camnator" or "Second Class", and that prevents anyone from making dozens of accounts with those names. There's a critical difference between the two though clearly, I don't mind muting the dozens of Alts and spammers like John Cena because that's common stuff that's been around for awhile, but what about those that are more subtle and crafty? [quote]deal with the problem because of a theoretical problem with how posts can be edited (which has always been true, even in the old site).[/quote] So you say it's theoretical, then do a 180 and say it's always been a problem? Why isn't anything being done to fix it? If editing posts can make people completely skip over reports and bans because Moderators say they won't do anything after a post has been edited, why do you say there is a record of them all? Because it seems there is, but only in the form of a timestamp that says when something was edited, not what it was before or after an edit or two.

1. The fact that the entire site could name all of their accounts the same name and Real ID doesn't sound like a serious problem? Maybe it's just something so far beyond the bounds of what you guys can do with the site that you don't want to try attempting it? Is that what it is? Whether for technical limitations or lack of ambition? 2. Okay, point taken, but yet again, I could say the most bewilderingly offensive things I want to you, and then edit it a few moments later and get away with it. All because multiple times I have been told by the Moderation team that they cannot do anything to ban what might have been before in the post, because they cannot "see or know" what it might have contained before, again reiterating what I said that there are timestamps, but no real evident record that they can access to see what an edited post contained. 3. That's a great mentality to have, I can understand not wanting us to know specifics of how the system operates, but that's basically equivalent to letting us wander around in the dark tripping over our own feet because we can't be trusted with anything. Most of which us cannot be, I can agree with, but we need information if you actually want us to moderate and cut through some of the deluge of the site. Except it really does...

1. Not a bad point, but the majority of who people mute are Camnator alts these days. There are actually legions of people who impersonate him and post "booty threads" and such all the time, people get onto the site to pretend to be him just to spam nonsense all day. Then there are those that just make Alts so they can do whatever they want. They avoid bans and mutes all day because they can make as many accounts as they want, where are the limitations to that? 2. Ha-ha, what's the problem? The fact that I could say whatever I want then immediately hide it and say "just kidding" isn't a problem? Decent members who have been here for years could express themselves however they please then decide that since no one will see what they said besides their intended target, there's no repercussions to anything. Debates about serious topics could derail into horrible segments of slander and defamation, but then everyone decides to edit their posts so no one sees anything, then they do not get in trouble for what they said. That's an all-access pass to get away with what they want. Most members have been shown to be more tolerant of things too based on the testimony of Moderators, so when people just mute everything, that cycle continues indefinitely that your behavior doesn't need to be polite and mature, because people can simply hide things. That's a means to an end without an end. 3. I can't agree with that, it simply means I'm perpetuating that bad behavior I'm seeing cause I can simply hide what might offend me personally, instead of focusing on making the site better through diligence and active efforts to see that punishments and ill-behavior does not continue.

1. The point is clearly not getting across the inter-webs well enough then, until someone else gives their input besides the peanut gallery in a fair and calm matter, I don't have anymore to say myself about the matter since I've stated what I wanted to. 2. What we "could and should" do will always be a term of thinking for things we think we can change and make better, I'm not exclusive to that or in-exclusive to it, never said I was. But I'm here to voice my complaints and that's what I've been doing. One thing you have to think of though, is what's going to happen when Destiny is actually out? What about those droves of new users that will come to the site? How will that be handled when a lot of people think chaos is already present right now? Consider that the 'way of thinking' I'm having in mind. 3. The Moderators were actually something to fear before though, you didn't know where they were lurking, when they might go "ban happy" and ban you for something ridiculous at any moment, that enforced a good standard because most didn't want to mess around then. In addition to Politics and Religion not being allowed, it did in a way constrain the system, but it was still moderated better then, and I'm sure there are others that will agree with me, ask around if you want. But here's where my point stands, your posts carry a reputation, and here's where I'm going to use a bit of profanity. When you post in something, most will either suck up to you or immediately give up their argument because they're thinking "holy shit, it's the head honcho, big dog, leader of them all" and so on and so forth. People know to move aside and respect your statements when you make them, because of that reputation and weight you could throw around before. That isn't the case anymore, most still suck up to Mods and don't try to go against them when they say something because they think it can get them somewhere, or they have an unfounded respect for them for something they've said in the past. But the plain fact is, most Moderators aren't feared anymore. You aren't some unseen act of God that could strike down someone at any moment, because you literally and metaphorically have no power on Bungie.next, because you say you gave us the tools to handle everything ourselves. So what purpose do you serve on the forums yourselves? Are you here just to enforce what we deem inappropriate and unfair? Or are you merely a relic and a placeholder for what the Moderation team used to be? Because it seems that now, most don't like what they hear from the Moderation teams. We want to speak up against what's changed, and it seems all we hear in return is "you're just being a pussy because you don't want to mute someone, we gave you the tools, so go handle it yourselves." Like now, you guys are just here to reiterate that same line of speech every time we speak up about the new system. And if we want to talk to you and profess our complaints and thoughts, it's our fault for not immediately muting everyone. This doesn't make the site better, eventually it will get stale and boring because we'll have hundreds of accounts and users muted, then the site will be empty and devoid of anything because we were told to immediately mute what we don't like. Instead of letting the Moderators themselves hold most of the power to clean up the site, with us having some capabilities, it's just us being told that it's all up to us and if there's a problem we're supposed to deal with it amongst ourselves, and that the Mods are basically a puppet regime. That's my final point, because I've said all that I've wanted to, and I don't believe there is really anything else for me to say personally.

Wrong. You are being rebellious just to be rebellious. Achronos has soundly stated why you are wrong, and I imagine this is why he hasn't responded. Most people look on what the moderators and Bungie employees post with respect because most of the time, what they are posting is either right or a mature, well thought out statement. Do moderators and employees sometimes make jokes or crap statements? Sure, but these aren't what you are talking about because those posts are either planned beforehand on a large scale (like April Fool's Day) or so obviously trollish that the majority of members see them for what they are. You're making mountains out of mole hills and look like a whiny brat now.

Back that post up with some opinions, because you've been spouting yours off since the beginning when I haven't been asking for them or responding the entire time, maybe that would give you an idea that I don't care to hear what another regular member has to say about it because it has no weight coming from you. You've already shown you're against my side, so why would I care to reply more I've said all I wanted to to Achronos? I haven't mentioned any posts, don't assume you know what I have in mind, so again, your opinion that I am not concerned with. [quote]Wahhhhh you're arguing about something wahhhh[/quote] Thank you, I can hear you, and you may now stop.

See? That's exactly what I'm talking about. You really can't stand, that in this instance, talking to the man who birthed this site, that he is right and you are wrong. He has stated multiple times that what you are thinking has been thought about in the past, and the webteam has learned that their current method is the best possible way to deliver the best experience to all users. Why you continue to try and prove your way is the best (when in the past, it has been proven otherwise) is just idiotic given the conversation between you two thus far. You are speaking in circles and keep repeating the same (disproven) arguments.

>Assuming my feelings are hurt because we disagreed >Sees you have been leading the peanut gallery the entire time >Has never been interested in your thoughts because I came here to ask [b]Moderators and developers of the site[/b] What else is there to add? I'm done replying, our argument isn't constructive nor worth the effort, so I'm done here.